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Thread: Caddy Engines??.
          
   
   

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  1. #1
    1gary is offline Banned Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Caddy Engines??.

     



    This a admitted newbie question.........well sort of.Admins/Mods,because there isn't a section for Caddy engines is why it is here.

    Soooooo-here it is.For years guys with hot rods used Caddy engines.Big cubic inch Caddy engines that is.Then it seemed they fell out of favor.Again there was a raise of swaps of those engines in Chevy cars/trucks.Once again it seems they fell out of favor.

    With the hot rods you guys build,(still being the newbie here)I haven't seen a rod with a Caddy here.

    Question is why??.I get a sense that parts for them is very expensive.But what is the history to current day and why do I not see more of them??.With a chart that was recently posted as to size,they are smaller compared to a BBC short of the height being higher and they being 1" wider.

    But I do remember seeing roadsters powered by them.

    What is their down side??.I know the 500'ers are torque monster.I would seem it would cost less to have one of them than build the same with a BBC.

    Please my curiosity is killing me here and any and all input is surely welcome.

  2. #2
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    The big Caddy's build a ton of torque! There's been a couple projects on here with the big 500 incher!!! There are some good parts out for them, but with the big inches they don't really need a lot of aftermarket stuff. Doubt there's much around for used performance Caddy parts. Also Pat McCarthy has had a number of cams reground, probably the company would do a Caddy cam, too. I've had visions of one stuffed in an F-100 pickup, but being a Ford guy I seem to always stuff a BBF in all my stuff!!!! I'd say if you could find a decent engine and trans the price would be ok because of the low demand for the engines. Whatcha got on yer mind to put the beast in????
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
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  3. #3
    1gary is offline Banned Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Thanks Dave for the reply.For now I am looking for pro and cons.I have never owned one and want to hear about them.

    I thought given the Hot Rods here I would have seen more here.You know-the retro rod kind of thing.

    Torque is king for the street too.

    Maybe Pat has built one or two and will chime in.

    Again,anyone's input is surely welcome.

  4. #4
    techinspector1's Avatar
    techinspector1 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Here's a Lux motor in an El Camino
    http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...light=Cadillac
    CanadianAl put a 500 in his T-bucket
    http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...light=Cadillac

    Gary, several years ago, I was toying around with the idea of using an Eldorado or Toronado transaxle complete in the rear of a small pickup truck. If a guy had an S10 or Plymouth Arrow or Dodge D50 or Ford Courier or small Toyota or whatever, with a roached motor/trans.....
    Remove the bed. Whack the frame off behind the cab, leaving stubs to weld to.

    Cut the Eldorado/Toronado frame off at the firewall. Remove all sheetmetal. Leave radiator in place. Remove steering box and drag link. Fabricate receptacles for tie rod ends at frame, so toe-in/toe-out could be adjusted. Place rear wheels so that stock wheelbase of the truck would be maintained and tires/wheels would look right in the wheelwells of the bed. Weld Cad/Olds frame stubs to truck frame stubs. Rear track will be much wider than stock truck track, so split the bed down the middle and add material to widen the bed and cover the tires properly. Now, the bed will be wider than the rear of the truck cab. Cut air intakes into the front of the bed and duct the air into the Cad/Olds radiator. Everything stock. Stock radiator, stock shroud, stock fan, stock fan clutch, stock water pump. Cover bed with tonneau cover so no nosey hot rodders can see what powers "that little black truck that goes like stink". Use expanded metal to fabricate a rear gate. This is where the air from the radiator will exit.
    PLANET EARTH, INSANE ASYLUM FOR THE UNIVERSE.

  5. #5
    1gary is offline Banned Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Honestly-I don't know if I am violating any forum rules with this link.....so if I am please PM me and delete it.

    From a Hot Rod article:

    http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e..._v8/index.html

    Seems to be a good read.

  6. #6
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    Good read, but I didn't see the cost addressed unless I just missed it. Looks to me like a lot of Shekels to build it. Did you see the 505 Chevy budget motor I posted on here. Wallet friendly for the power.
    PLANET EARTH, INSANE ASYLUM FOR THE UNIVERSE.

  7. #7
    Lord Antagonism is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Something I always wondered about... Using the turbo425 transmission from a big Eldorado or Toranado with a 500 Caddy or 455 Olds in the back of a Kelmark GT kit.

  8. #8
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    "......Something I always wondered about... Using the turbo425 transmission from a big Eldorado or Toranado with a 500 Caddy or 455 Olds in the back of a Kelmark GT kit....."

    I seem to recall Hot Rod Magazine did a wrtie up on a 455 Kelmark, as I rememeber it was kind of a monster.

    In certain ways you can draw a lot of similarities between the big Caddy engines and the early Chrysler Hemi’s. Almost every Hot Rodder has heard of them, there is a fair amount of misinformation about both, you don’t necessarily come across a lot of them anymore, even if the initial cost of the engine is low they are an expensive engines to build. Even with only a few companies supporting either engine there really is a pretty fair amount of good aftermarket performance equipment out there to build the engine to suit a particular application if you know where to look.

    I suspect the main reasons you don’t see more of them used is the cost to build the engine and that putting one of these in something is a bit more of a challenge. These engines are wide and tall and specific swap kits are not readily available so putting them in certain projects can take a fair amount of fabrication skills and experience (but that is true with a lot of swaps).

    Having gotten into these engines a while back I am aware of several ongoing caddy swap projects plus I've read of many completed cars (putting turbos on these seems to be coming quite popular). They are being built, you just don't hear as much about them.
    I've NEVER seen a car come from the factory that couldn't be improved.....

  9. #9
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    I'm running a 500 with a th400 in my streeter Henry J project. Doc Fromoder from
    http://www.webrodder.com/ has lots of stuff on them. Even wrote a pretty good book on just that subject

  10. #10
    1gary is offline Banned Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Arrow

     



    I admit it,it is one more of "those glossy paged builds" in the link that most of us likely couldn't afford,but AMG-over 600lbs of torque at 2900 RPM.Now that would be a wide eyed ride!!!.

  11. #11
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    Shoot 1gary; The 70, 501 caddy motor puts out 550 foot pounds of torque @ 2800 and 400HP stock. So it would not be hard to get 600 or more foot pounds of torque out of it.
    Plus them old caddy blocks have alot of nickel in the blocks and they last for ever.
    Check out this site for caddy engines.
    Check out the MTS performance builds.
    http://www.500cid.com/Home.htm
    Kurt
    Last edited by vara4; 03-24-2010 at 06:23 AM.

  12. #12
    1gary is offline Banned Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by vara4 View Post
    Shoot 1gary; The 70, 501 caddy motor puts out 550 foot pounds of torque @ 2800 and 400HP stock. So it would not be hard to get 600 or more foot pounds of torque out of it.
    Plus them old caddy blocks have alot of nickel in the blocks and they last for ever.
    Check out this site for caddy engines.
    Check out the MTS performance builds.
    http://www.500cid.com/Home.htm
    Kurt
    Thanks for the info.

    Guys please keep the input coming................

  13. #13
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    my 16 year old recently purchased a 500 caddy machined block. he got it for $75.00. he then brought the matching heads for $125.00. he wants to do a mild build and drop it into my monte. he has gotten a job at subway to pay for the build but i am thinking that the monte will be setting idle for a very long time before he can get all the money together. right now he and i have purchased a 88 z28 and are putting my 350/350 in it out of the monte.
    BARB

    LET THE FUN BEGIN

  14. #14
    Stu Cool's Avatar
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    Ok Guys check this out. Talk about a rocket!

    http://www.enercalc.com/porsche/

    I was considering a Cadillac 500 for my Studebaker, but with my narrowed Nova Subframe I would have had to do a lot more cutting than I wanted too. The LS1 was a great alternative.

    Pat
    Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong!

  15. #15
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    As Tech indicated, building a Cadillac 500 is gonna cost some money even if you go stock. Just for purposes of comparison, I bought a master engine rebuild kit from Northern Auto Parts. It cost me just under $860. The cost of a similar kit for a 350? Around $190 and the Chevy came with an oil pump which the Cad didn't.

    jayp suggested Doc Frohmader's book "Big Inch Cadillac" and I definitely agree with him. It's good stuff.

    There's some good reading at:

    http//www.sigetyracing.com/sigetyracing_007.htm

    I hope that link works.

    The engines are out there and they can be had very reasonably. In fact, I was given a '76 Sedan De Ville free. The people wanted the piece of ah ... wreckage off of their property. You may get the idea that it wasn't exactly a cream puff but I got the engine and a TH400 transmission just for hauling it off, then the recycle place gave me $90 for what was left.

    That said, that was the ONLY thing about the project that wasn't expensive.

    I have it in my head that big block Chev headers can be modified for use on the Cadillac heads by using new flanges and reshaping the Chevy tubes to match the Cadillac ports. Maybe that came from Frohmader's book. I'm not sure.

    Good luck


    Jim

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