Thread: Engine placement question for someone who had never done it

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In the near future, I plan on swapping out a stock Model A engine on my '30 tudor for a Buick 231 engine. The car is presently in storage, so I can't get started just yet, but I am in a planning stage at present. I will be adding a th 350 automatic tranny to the engine and will be mounting this all in the stock 1930 Ford frame. I'll do the boxing of the frame and use the mounts for the 231. The wishbones will be split if necessary.

Since I have only swapped out engines that did not require such mods in the past (Chevy for a Chevy, Buick for a Buick, etc.), then it appears that there must be some mounting point that is basically a universal one. Will the firewall have to be cut or can I just get by with the V6 placement without having to cut in or replacing the firewall metal? How do you locate the best placement of the mounts on the stock Model A frame for this application? I don't want the motor to sit exceedingly far back from the radiator, but I want a good balance of where it should be located. Is there a rule of thumb, or universal mounting location?

Hope this question makes sense. Most all of the motors I have ever swapped out have been a direct fit and required no fabrication to make them work. This project won't be like that and I want to know what to expect and how to do it right on the first go. Thanks for any tips and suggestions.
Huey

The first thing you will have to do is update the suspension and box the frame rails to support the extra weight and horsepower. Once the frame and suspension work is done, then mock up the motor in the frame with the body on it, and see what all will have to be changed. You will have to buy or build engine and transmission mounts and lot of other bits and pieces.

If you are going to use the stock mechanical fan, then allow 1" from the inside of the radiator core to the front of the fan blades for your "fore and aft" engine placement. Center the engine between the frame rails. The height of engine in relationship to the framerails always involves a bit of imagineering.----The higher the engine sets, then the higher the transission sets, so as a consequence you will end up cutting out a lot of floor and firewall to give clearance for the transmission and bell housing area on the engine, however you will have lots of room for your exhaust manifolds and steering shaft from the column to the steering box (which is always a real pig on a model A Ford).
You can set the engine lower in the frame, thus saving a lot of cutting and carving on the floor and firewall, but then you may have clearance issues with the exhaust and steering. This is really a "try it and see" type of thing----if you can find someone else running this set-up in a model A, then take some measurements from it. When all is said and done, a rule of thumb is that the lowest point on the oil-pan should not set lower than the lowest point on the I-beam axle. The engine should be set on an angle which lets the carburetor base set level (the engine will then be tilted down 3 to 5 degrees at the transmission end. You will have to fabricate engine and transmission mounts.

Moving the motor to either side of the car slightly (off-center) is ok as long as you keep the crankshaft centerline parallel with the car centerline and make provision at the fan/shroud interface.

Brian,
Your comments and from the others on this thread have been very helpful to me also. I've got the engine setting in the frame on stands and just figuring things out. First actual work will be in boxing the frame.
I've picked up another 26 T coupe and have decided to restore the first one and will be rodding the other. I'm saving the best sheetmetal for the restoration project, maybe.
Decided to go fenderless also. I'm still using the stock Buick V6, thinking pretty serious about a 46 Ford pickup rear end with open driveshaft (4:11), found one for $150.00, going with 52 Ford pickup backing plates and drums ($75.00), Boxing Model A Frame, 4" dropped axle, split stock wishbone.
Tom

Tom---That sounds like a great plan. If it was me I would look for an 8" rearend out of a Mustang, Maverick, or Granada, (they are the right width), however the old Ford should work alright if you are going with a V6 powerplant. If you are planning to go with the split front wishbones and a 4" droppped axle, be aware that you could get into trouble with the steering tie rod or drag link running smack into the split wishbone from the side. That is why many guys go to hairpin style wishbones---that way the tie-rod and/or drag link can run thru the center of the hairpin.

Tom, if you decide to go with an 8" Maverick rear, I have a couple of them here. Let me know if you decide to go that way. I think I still have a posi unit for an 8" also.

Dave,
How much do you want for one of them? I need to have gears no higher than 3:77. I'll be around your area on the 4th of Nov. hunting Pheasants (Woonscocket).
Tom

Tom---I could be wrong, but I think the strongest gear set available for a ford 8" from the factory was 3.55:1, and they were scarce. I built a 27 roadster with a small block chev 350 in it, and a Ford 8" that was something like 2.79:1 ratio, and it was kind of a dog. I was able to get a ring and pinion set from a circle track racer that was 3.55:1 but the pinion had a damaged pilot shaft. I was able to fix it, and that ratio really made the car come alive.
There is a much greater availability in gear-sets for Ford 9" rearends, but they are too wide to fit properly under the early cars without shortening the axles and housings, which is very expensive.
If you are going to run a V6, you might be farther ahead to go with the old banjo rearend that you already have???---they came with a fairly signifigant ratio. Sorry Dave---I'm not trying to screw up your sale.

Dave,
I've got a buddy who might be interested in the Maverick rearend, how much?

Brian,
Thanks for the info on the rearend. I want to go as Traditional as possible, that's why I'd like to go with a split wishbone. When I built my 34 Ford, 43 years ago, I split that wishbone and also had a 4" dropped axle. Then 10 years later when I bought it back I put in a Mustang steering box and everything cleared.
Tom

There are lower gear sets available for the 8" Ford. I just bought a set of 3.80s and had choice of 4.11 and lower. They are aftermarket vs OEM, but they are out there. I found a whole reconditioned trac loc third member with the new gears on EBay. Paid $550, with 6 month warranty. I know I could have found used cheaper if I shpped, but the new stuff should be problem free,

Pat

Pat,
I'm trying to keep the costs down so I think I'll stick to the old Ford pickup rearend, but thanks for the info.
Tom

you guys seem to know your stuff. I need to fabricate engine mounts in a model A tudor Sedan to accept a 2.8 liter mustang engine. I have the mounts but am missing the reciever that actually bolts on the block. I work well with pics so if anyone has some that show how they mount, I am interested.

Diamond D

Tall Tom, I PM'd you on the Mav rear ends.