please keep us posted, Dare To Be Different :cool:
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please keep us posted, Dare To Be Different :cool:
Also, since I'm looking to make this thing street-legal, does anyone know if I'd have any trouble getting it inspected and what not? I know it varies state-to-state, but I'd hate to drop all the time and money and not be able to drive it like I want to.........
Go kick @$$ and take names. I'm all for it. Be very wary though as to the home brew biodiesel. All you have to do is screw up one batch...and the motor may become VERY unhappy very quickly. PLEASE post updates, my girlfriend may rekindle her interest in me tearing up my 69 firebird. Not likely...maybe I won't mention it to her! Glad to know that your still alive. I was starting to wonder if some good ol boys overheard your "crime of nature" idea and did you in!
I'm dying to know your eventual driveline decision. I wish I could be a technical help to you in your quest. But alas...I'm not a diesel guy. I'm trying to nail down the specs on a 434 cubic inch stroked AMC 401 to run in a 3.15 geared car with a .7 overdrive and get it to pull 20mpg+ in a 3500lb. convertible. And of course run in the say mid 13s in the 1/4 in full street trim!
I think that you could do much better in the mileage department with the right combo. Let me know how it goes.
George
Best think I can recommend for the inspection and legality thing is to call your state DMV office and ask them. The fact that the car is 35yrs old is definitely an advantage. If it will be registered as a classic car, it may fall in the self inspected category. Again, check your state DMV.
George
Ok, I thought of this a bit ago....Steering......I'd rather not muscle (no pun int.) a Chevelle when I gotta parallel park and whatnot without power steering............So, if I'm putting the diesel in (esp. if I decide to go w/non-GM), what would that entail as far as pwr steering goes?....Any thoughts?....skolaiks
All manufacturers use power steering on they're diesels so it shouldn't be too much trouble. Another thing to think about is brakes. GM used a hydraulic boost system that used a second p/s pump to assist the brakes. It worked very well and was even used on some astro vans. You might have to make custon mounts and use odd belts but it shouldn't be an issue... What brand of diesel are you thinking of using? A cummins may be too long for the car, just a thought.
They sell biodiesel in Texas. Willie Nelson has a company that makes it. He's been running it in his tour buses for years. And yes I have seen Houston when you could hardly breath. Over on the east side especially around the refineries. Built a lot of Wal-Marts in Houston area for years. Some days you couldn't see the Bud plant from the smog.
But biowillie diesel will pass inspection in Houston. Age of a vehicle only determines if smog control is required, you still have to have emission testing. If you register avehicle as a classic or antique in Texas it is only legal to drive in parades and special events, not an everyday driver.
Yeah, there's a place in Texas City that sells, but it's a bit far for me.....I'll make mine............But right on, 1970 doesn't require smog pumps or anything..........pinche chito..........Oh, and I live on the downtown east side........Eastwood, near 2nd ward.......Once you get out further toward the warehouse dist. and the ship channel it gets as nasty as Pasa-gitdown and TXCity.........Lordy........I'm from Galveston Co. and I'm tired of everyone having to work in cancerville..........
dare to be differnt? are you F**KING NUTS!!!!! id like to see you try to re-sell it also:LOL:
Actually gasser, theres a market for the strange. And besides, since when does a person build their rod to sell it? If i had my way, i would have been Buried in my first! Anyway, the diesel should keep the body fairly rust-free. even the shell will be worth something then;)
Banks is making 700hp from the duramax at 7000rpm. Can you imagine that sucker screaming by?
Soooooo, how much is gas running up in Spokane?......I know some folks in No. Cali. cooking up biodiesel for about 25 cents a gallon................Just something to think about gasser....
Don't concern yourself about the people who don't like your ideas. If you like it, and it's not hurting anyone, and you think it is a good idea...than do it! I wouldn't be suprised if Willie Nelson would help you fund it if he knew what you wanted to do. Stanger things have happened from more normal people. As I said, it's not my thing, but I'm all for it. Maybe Gassersrule---196 is worried that you will be able to pull it off and get lucky enough to have some hardcore diesel speed parts in the thing and run a faster time at the track than his nova, all the while getting all the people that come around your car suddenly hungry for french fries! Yeah...I got it. Go see if a fast food chain could sponsor you! Hardees racing, they sponsor race cars right. I'll bet none of theirs smells like french fries. Now that's marketing.
George
All right skolaiks, I was begining to wonder about you myself. I'm gald we didn't turn you off. Now that I have a better idea of what you're tryin to do let's see if I can help with some input of my own. You're just tryin' to buld a driver, so let's narrow down your engine choices. I'm not tryin to bellittle anyone here, but take it from me and I think it was the swiftster, 5.7 GM diesels are crap. You can try to convince me with all of the new goodies that are being made to make them decent motors, but they are junk. I've done more gas conversions with these than I can count on my fingers and it wasn't because they were great motors that produce mad power. If you want something earlier and GM go with either 6.2 or 6.5, preferably the 6.5. You can find them with turbos and there are a number of companies that produce aftermarket parts and I've seen a number of them that produce 300+ ponies. That should put you around 600 Ft. lbs. The bonus here is that you can set it up without much electrical work, as in a computer.
If it were me I would probably do the 12 valve cummins. The earlier ones used very little in the way of the computer and can be setup to be use without one. There are also tons of hop up goodies for them so you should be able to get some real usable power. I feel that this is the best choice just from a dependability standpoint. Those old cummins motors are indestrucible and I've seen them run for well over 500,000 miles without a rebuild, in-frame or otherwise.
The powerstroke, I feel personally, is way over rated. Don't get me wrong it's decent motor, but it's huge and unless you find a good 7.5 that was made for an industrial application (meduim duty truck) you're looking at a lot of computer goodies for it. Same with the Duramax, good motor, lotsa computer stuff.
As far as power steering goes, like someone else mentioned, all manufacturers used power steering, so that should be no more than getting the right hoses made or bought and hooking it all up right. Shouldn't be a problem.
Like I said, I think I would start lookin' at the 6.2, 6.5 GM or a Cummins B model. Those cars came factory with big blocks, so settin' it up to hold the weight shouldn't be a problem. 6.2, 6.5 are V8 models, the Cummins is a straight, look for the 6 cyl out of a full size truck. Once they went to 24 valve in like 97 or 98 they added a lot of computer crap. With the 6.2, 6.5 trannies should be a dime a dozen also and all your mounts should be pretty close to stock if not right on the money.
Good luck and keep us posted, I'm interested in what you get going
Gassersrule...I apologize, no point in getting anyone upset. Just diving you a hard time. The last thing I want to do is get this thread off track and off subject. Skolaiks is interested in "presumably" breaking new ground here. It's different, yes. It's definitely not the "accepted" thing to do to a well loved muscle car body. But it's his car and as far as I'm concerned he should be able to make it solar powered if he wants to. You like your car (it's a cool car, my 'bird' is about the same shade of yellow) I like mine, and hopefully he'll like his. He came here because he was trying to find smart people who might be able to help him figure some things out. UROTU, among others, sure seems to be one of those people. I just don't want him to be totally discouraged before he finds out if his idea could be feasable and realistically doable for him in his situation.
George
Yeah, we oughtta keep it on the level........ Anyhow, so I'm thinking GM 6.5.......It's about $800 less for a rebuilt long block than the cummins 12.........I figure buying one rebuilt might be a more viable decision than trying to find one at a junk yard or something....Thunderbolt does good work as far as I know........And I'm just learning about diesels anyway.....I've rebuilt a few 350s, a flathead Ford tractor (that was a trip) but never touched a diesel.....So, a '92-'01 6.5 doesn't have much in the way of computer stuff (if any)?.....I know the gassers had 'em mid-80s.......Oh, and some folks have commented about the sound of the diesel, but I figure it's not that much different than a lopin' cam........Eh?
I'm the one who mentioned the exhaust sound thing. A diesel sounds way different! I'm sure that there is much that can be done to alter the sound of the exhaust to a point. But then there is still the diesel motor itself singing it's own song between the fenderwells. That is probably your biggest hurdle to overcome when it comes to "acceptance" with the old school crowd. The v-8 rumble from a carburated gas motor is a big deal for the senses to many. You're probably going to have a difficult time making it sound like anything but a diesel. Oh well!!! But that will set you apart... that's for sure. Consider it a very serious conversation starter. Don't be suprised if you get some guy throwing a fit watching you fill up a 1970 chevelle with diesel at a gas station(if you ever need to go to one that is)
I really hope this project works out for you. Plenty of people will mock you for trying it, but nearly all will respect you for what you accomplished when its done. I sure will.
George
heck, i'll just say what my next would be if i ever got to it, but i wont so heres my idea. take a 40's - 50's dodge 3/4 ton pickup and put a 5.9 cummins in it with some old retro cummins badges on the motor and fenders. i think it sound pretty cool so someone have at it :cool:
Ahhh the 350 Diesel....
We had one in an Olds. On a Sunday drive over the local "hill"
the infamous hwy 17... Pulling the first grade...
KABLOOOOWIE!!
The rear tires locked.... Let me describe the autopsy results.
One of the rods failed.
It flailed around...
It severed the oil pan so all the oil poured out on the steep road.
After severing the pan it lined up nicely and stacked the block web.
The web was sufficently stout to stop the the crank INSTANTLY.
This caused the crankshaft to break.
However before it broke other damage was done...
The camshaft also broke in the very center.
The front half came out of the front of the engine through the front cover.
That didn't stop it though.. the water pump impeller stopped the camshaft.
This caused a large percentage of the entire cooling circuit to blast out the back of the ruptured water pump. This also ran back down the steep busy incline.
The sudden stop of the engine swept three teeth off the ring gear. This was the cause of the rear wheel lock up preventing even the CHP from shoving it outta the fast lane.
To top this off after converting the whole thing over to a 350 GAS engine and replacing the third member. We started it up only to find that the transmission had been lunched in the "event". We had to remove and ultimately replace it...
350 Diesel... no thanks.
The 350 diesel was a bad motor for only driving in town. It's a diesel and it's true place is on the open road. My father knew and old lady that had one with over 150k miles on it.. She only drove it on trips, and never just to grocery. He did all the maintenance on it for her.
Man, that sounds like when I first got my Chevelle.........Wasn't trying to race it, but nobody told me that the transmission indicator was off, and for a powerglide, that's a big deal.........The radiator was bad too.........Ahh, 17 and used to small cars..........Man, some lessons are expensive..............So, do y'all think I should stick with the pwrglide?
Yo dude, no powerglide. The torque from a diesel is going to eat it up unless you really build it. Plus, not enough gears. A diesel pushin' 3 grand is doin' pretty well. I'd try to get a motor/tranny combo, O/D automatic that came with the motor.
I also talked to my diesel bud and asked him a couple of questions. The 62., 6.5 should be close to a bolt in operation. You might have to fab tranny mounts depending on what tranny you use, but the bolt pattern on the motor is standard chevy, so it should bolt to what ever tranny you want, including the powerglide.
These are for you too. A good link to a 6.2/6.5 page http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/ and for everyone interested, check out this Corvette . Something else isn't it?
Oh, and before I forget, the first year 6.5 Turbo is all mecahnical. After that they get pretty electronic so you'd need a computer, but if you went for first yaer you wouldn't need to convert it or put a computer on it.
If you decide to go with a 6.2 as it's all mechanical I'll get my dad to tell you how to advance the timing and all sorts of other neat things. He worked on a bunch of them.
fine have your DIEsel stick it it where you want i really dont care. they will always stink. not start worth a damn in the winter and sound like s*it . they are a higher maintence motor then a gas i dont care what you say. my pop's used to work at a towing company as did i <yes i was NOT to young> and boss never had a diesel main reason wont start in the winter! btw the company was 14 trucks stong :LOL: if you want a truck you might as well get an elcamino and put a 5th wheel with stacks on it, this is so redneck :LOL:
Yeah, I figured that the pwrglide would be a bad idea.....I'll probably cut a deal with the local engine fellas (I mean they "put the yee-haw back in you motor and transmission" hehehe).....And gasser, if you insist on slangin' shizz, then hey snowbird, I ain't gotta worry about that cold weather junk 'cause I'm on the Gulf Coast.........So take your winter woes somewhere else.........Get an attitude or latitude adjustment before posting next........Thanks........
p.s.: Your pop's what used to work on things?....It's not nice to use possessives if they aren't, I mean ain't (I'm sooo redneck after all), called for........
Oh, and urotu, thanks for the links, I think they'll be good sources.......
Since the 6.5L came stock with the 700R that's what I'd be looking for in a "bolt-in" combination. Stay away from the 6.2L since they were only factory offered natually aspirated, around 150bhp or so. The 6.5L was most commonly found in the turbocharge form, 200bhp standard. As noted earlier the 6.5s were all computer controlled except the first year, but the rebuilt mechanical Stanadyne fuel pumps gave a few more horsepower and eliminated the ECU.
Pennisular Diesel produced a rebuild kit with new pistons which lowered the compression to 16:1 . Boost could then be brought up to 10-15lbs. The higher boost levels mandated an intercooler. I believe the kit was rated for around 300bhp of continuous marine operation. As a point of comparison the 330bhp marine big block Chevy is usually worn out at 700 hrs of operation where the 6.5LTD was good for 3500 hrs. A boat is one of the most brutal applications for a motor - clear the breakwater and put the throttles down for 5 hours at 4500 RPM. Spend the rest of the day trolling at idle, then turn around and race home.
As far as reliability, I put 190,000 miles on my 1994 crew cab dually 6.5L before trading it in on my 2003 Ford Powerstroke. In that time it received oil and oil filter changes every 3000 miles. The K&N air filter was cleaned every 10,000 miles. All other service was the same as a gasser. No problems during ownership.
With the 4" dia exhaust it had a healthy rumble on acceleration with a modest turbo whistle. These motors didn't make much boost, just 5 lbs or so. Nothing like the newer diesels with the VG turbos, these things sound like F-16s taking off when the exhaust is opened up.
Cold starts in the winter were never a problem, even in the local mountains where it would cold soak at nights to 5 degrees. A bit of blue smoke for a few minutes, that was it. The high compression (21:1) of these particular motors made cold starts easier than the normal 16:1 turbocharged engines. Since they came with block heaters, you could always plug in on those cold Houston nights.
Cheers and good luck , Mark (a true diesel believer if you can't tell)
I hear yah brother!
:rolleyes:
SKOLAIKS...any news for us?