Thread: Gibbon or Wescott 32 3 window

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Originally Posted by 1960apache

Just when I think I have it all figured out, someone throws a fly in my ointment.
That's what I am finding about the Brookville. I have restored quite a few Vette's and for me, fiberglass is 10 times easier to work with than steel.
I have been reading some other post's and found these guys, New Age Motorsports, that do a chopped 5 window, which is really growing on me. I just need to find more pics of the style I plan to do.
Also, I am finding the additional bodywork that people have had to do is minimal on the Redneck's, Wescott's and also the New Age.

Ahhh ! The fly in the oinment.
Yer startin to figure it out Apache.
The last brookville (roadster) I did, had over 90 hrs in it B4 it was ready to paint, compared to 8 - 12 on an N&N (glass)
Again Do the math.
BTW Ed @ New Age probably builds the nicest and most correct 5 W on the market, and he's a great guy to deal with.

Glad to hear that, because that is pretty much the way I am leaning! I am already sleeping better knowing that I didn't spend $25k+ on just a BODY!!!
I found a few good pics similar to what I am trying to end up with.
So now I need to think about the chassis options. I have been pretty much stuck on the So Cal frame, with the buggy rear spring etc.
As far as the engine, I am pretty much down to the small block ford with Edelbrock Valve covers, Air cleaner on top of the dual quad system.
I also need to look into rear end options, 9" vs quick change type stuff!

Originally Posted by DA34GUY

Ahhh ! The fly in the oinment.
Yer startin to figure it out Apache.
The last brookville (roadster) I did, had over 90 hrs in it B4 it was ready to paint, compared to 8 - 12 on an N&N (glass)
Again Do the math.
BTW Ed @ New Age probably builds the nicest and most correct 5 W on the market, and he's a great guy to deal with.

....only 90?? You must have gotten a good one then

I have 30-40 hours in the trunk lid alone, then there's the 20-30 hour '32 grille shell tooling marks as well as the depressed areas and the right top corner that was misshaped, tooling marks along the trunk reveal, a door that oil canned, a cowl side that didn't meet the cowl cover, the left quarter panel that was flat and needed to be cut loose to be fixed. And that's the repairs I can recall without going to my pictures. Oh yeah - how can a door gap (just at the reveal) be fine before the car is blown apart to paint and bad after paint?? But - it's a steel car, can be fixed fairly easily, but as an amateur my efforts do take a bit longer

I did this car because I wanted a good steel OEM or repro - I just didn't think it would take as long to fix the body as a 75+ year old version

Originally Posted by 1960apache

Glad to hear that, because that is pretty much the way I am leaning! I am already sleeping better knowing that I didn't spend $25k+ on just a BODY!!!
I found a few good pics similar to what I am trying to end up with.
So now I need to think about the chassis options. I have been pretty much stuck on the So Cal frame, with the buggy rear spring etc.
As far as the engine, I am pretty much down to the small block ford with Edelbrock Valve covers, Air cleaner on top of the dual quad system.
I also need to look into rear end options, 9" vs quick change type stuff!

This is a small block Ford (crate 5.0)with Billet Specialties valve covers(not well advertised) and air cleaner, Performer RPM intake, Performer carb, GT40P heads, 1.7 roller rockers, SVT 'E' camshaft.



Wait 'til you price that quick change and related parts. Look at Winter's for a nice alternate differential.

Also, my prefernce for a '32 chassis is one that starts with boxed American Stamping rails with that nice reveal rather then the 4 piece welded up assembly.

You might check Pete & Jake's for a roller chassis. They have good jigs and their shop does outstanding work.

So far you've been getting a real dose of reality and some good, sound advice. Fortunately it seems you've been listening, good on you. There's one piece of advice though that seems to have gone unresponded to. That is, look at the resale market. It's a buyers market out there, and could be that way for quite a while given market uncertainty. Now that may sound strange given the accurate observation that Brookville is still working at long lead times on the most high end of the pricing range. But don't be fooled. Probably the single most luxurious and desired American made automobile is the Duesenberg. When were those made? During the Great Depression, well, the early part of it anyway. They also went bust during the later part of the prolonged depression. I'll stop there because it would take a textbook long discussion to cover all the reasons. Let's just say that, so far, government practices today are very similar to then.

Back to the car thing. One example, and I know lots of folks squak about ebay, but it's an openly observable market.....we can learn from that. Just this past weekend an original '32 5 window coupe sold for just over $22k. Yes, it needed work, but it was mostly there, including full fenders and mostly original chassis. It's still not going to be a cheap date to finish, but as you've already seen, neither is the glass car. And it sounds like you've got expensive (so far) tastes in "accessories". Another example, there's a guy in Simi Valley Ca. who's got a stalled project for sale.....not exactly what you're looking for, but it serves to make a point. It's a '34 roadster, Wescott (quality) body, has a full rolling chassis with quick change, has gauges, steering column, grille, hood, top bows, wheels, tires, and a bunch of parts. What some would call a complete roller. He's been trying for MONTHS to sell it at $25k, even BEGS in his latest ad to bring ALL OFFERS......which means he's screaming "I'll take less". And he's not alone. Sure there are guys asking 3-4 year ago money, but unless there's something special about what they've got, it ain't movin' for that.

Don (da34guy) just sold a roadster he built a few years ago for a guy who got in a position where he had to sell, and based on what Don posted it went at a price WELL below what it cost just a few short years back.

You sound like someone who is willing to ask and learn. Impatience will be your enemy though if you get the "I gotta haves" before your education is more substantial (I can't use the word complete.....education is never complete). There's lots to be wary of in the resale market, but to the informed buyer it's a gold mine right now. Your choice.

BTW, here's a pic of my old Gibbon 3 window...................I've documented here, along with Jack (henry rifle), the amount of rework that had to go into the body to make it presentable.

Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

So far you've been getting a real dose of reality and some good, sound advice. Fortunately it seems you've been listening, good on you. There's one piece of advice though that seems to have gone unresponded to. That is, look at the resale market. It's a buyers market out there, and could be that way for quite a while given market uncertainty. Now that may sound strange given the accurate observation that Brookville is still working at long lead times on the most high end of the pricing range. But don't be fooled. Probably the single most luxurious and desired American made automobile is the Duesenberg. When were those made? During the Great Depression, well, the early part of it anyway. They also went bust during the later part of the prolonged depression. I'll stop there because it would take a textbook long discussion to cover all the reasons. Let's just say that, so far, government practices today are very similar to then.

Back to the car thing. One example, and I know lots of folks squak about ebay, but it's an openly observable market.....we can learn from that. Just this past weekend an original '32 5 window coupe sold for just over $22k. Yes, it needed work, but it was mostly there, including full fenders and mostly original chassis. It's still not going to be a cheap date to finish, but as you've already seen, neither is the glass car. And it sounds like you've got expensive (so far) tastes in "accessories". Another example, there's a guy in Simi Valley Ca. who's got a stalled project for sale.....not exactly what you're looking for, but it serves to make a point. It's a '34 roadster, Wescott (quality) body, has a full rolling chassis with quick change, has gauges, steering column, grille, hood, top bows, wheels, tires, and a bunch of parts. What some would call a complete roller. He's been trying for MONTHS to sell it at $25k, even BEGS in his latest ad to bring ALL OFFERS......which means he's screaming "I'll take less". And he's not alone. Sure there are guys asking 3-4 year ago money, but unless there's something special about what they've got, it ain't movin' for that.

Don (da34guy) just sold a roadster he built a few years ago for a guy who got in a position where he had to sell, and based on what Don posted it went at a price WELL below what it cost just a few short years back.

You sound like someone who is willing to ask and learn. Impatience will be your enemy though if you get the "I gotta haves" before your education is more substantial (I can't use the word complete.....education is never complete). There's lots to be wary of in the resale market, but to the informed buyer it's a gold mine right now. Your choice.

BTW, here's a pic of my old Gibbon 3 window...................I've documented here, along with Jack (henry rifle), the amount of rework that had to go into the body to make it presentable.

I completely understand you and I am with you on that thought. Most of the projects I have picked up in the recent few years are exactly that, being at the right place at the right time, and also doing a bit of daily net surfing. I know there are good cars out there that people need to unload and quickly. I think there will be great buys on real steel and also the Brookville body.
A good example is about 10 years ago, I restored a 60 Chev Short Stepside, 235 6 cylinder, 3 spd etc. and sold it at an auction because I got way more than I thought I could ever get. Obviously I regretted it, but recently while flipping through a magazine, I found one that a guy spent $40k restoring it, but now he thinks he can unload it for $20k, still about double what he will get, it's a truck and stock, so how many buyers are there for that? 1-2 in the whole Country?
Patience is tough since I have been putting it off for 10 years now, but now like you say it's a buyers market, so I will keep planning and deciding what style I want to build until the right combination comes along! I can't imagine how many stale projects there out there and how many men have to listen to a nagging wife telling them to dump it and use the money for something more necessary!! I guess that's what happens when you get "Hot Rod Fever" which I have had since I could crawl!!

I just realized you're in California. You might want to keep tabs with the local rod community about the crack down on "questionable" titles in your state. I've read where there's a good editorial on the issue in the latest (or previous?) issue of Street Rodder magazine. Could be why some of those Cali guys are unloading their glass projects.....trying anyway.

No one has mentioned Outlaw, which is the body I have. They are also high quality and my painter told me it took less that a cup of filler to get it ready for paint. Two things a about the Outlaw body which some do not like--the lack of a reveal around the windshield and the rear window is a '33 Chevy. If you do not mind these modifications, I would highly recommend this body. Mine has been on the road for five years no and there have been no issues. You can check it out on my photo page.

Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

I just realized you're in California. You might want to keep tabs with the local rod community about the crack down on "questionable" titles in your state. I've read where there's a good editorial on the issue in the latest (or previous?) issue of Street Rodder magazine. Could be why some of those Cali guys are unloading their glass projects.....trying anyway.

Thanks, that is a bit of good info. I have a MN address and have other vehicles registered there, so that might be a good avenue, looking for people who are unloading their projects in Cali!
I think the State/Gov is just trying to run us Hot Rodders out of the State!

Originally Posted by 1960apache

Thanks, that is a bit of good info. I have a MN address and have other vehicles registered there, so that might be a good avenue, looking for people who are unloading their projects in Cali!
I think the State/Gov is just trying to run us Hot Rodders out of the State!

Couple friends did the same thing...So Dak titled both cars with absolutely no problem... Nothing shady or illegal about it, just IMO Caliphony trying their best to get Hot Rods put back in the garage so there's more room on the (overcrowded) freeways for another Prius or two!!! With the taxes, and penalties, etc...gonna be tougher everyday to tolerate Hot Roddin' out there..... Know of a couple who've packed up shop, employees and all and vacated to be Uncle Bob's neighbors out there in Vegas!

Even the Eastern home of Taxes and Fees, (New York State) didn't give me any problem registering my '31 with a good bill of sale this past June.

Maybe that's why I sell 60 - 70% of my builds to guys in Californicate, as my cars have "Clean" AZ titles as first year of MFG as 1932.
The paper work alone is worth 3 - 5K to a guy in the fruit and nut state.

From what I understand, California license plate costs are based on the age and price of the vehicle rather than a set fee like some other states. I believe the contention in California involves a loss of revenue when a street rod is titled as a 1932 rather than given a new title which will generate more revenue. Iowa is like that, too. And then there is the small allotment of emissions exemptions needed by street rodders to register their vehicles. Here in Illinois , it is simply a set fee depending on what kind of plate you have. A regular plate is $99.00 while my prestige plate is $125.00. I did not have any problem licensing my '32 here and it did not have to be inspected.

Hey there Apache.
How bout sumthin like this 1?