Heads for 350 SBC in '65 El Camino. Will these work?

I have a gen 1 with this cam:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-31401001
Says minimum 9.5:1 compression ratio.

I'd love it if the $350 Vortec heads below would be decent, but...Not sure my exhaust and intake will bolt up. It had the 624 stock heads before.

I have the shortblock and this is really a quick fix to get the car back on the road, so I'm looking for the best power/ cost value here, not necessarily max power. Fit to cam matters.

Will any of these heads work?
Summit Vortec iron 67cc:
www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-151124


...or Flotek aluminum 64cc chamber 180cc intake:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flk-102-505ft

...or Summit Racing aluminum 65cc chamber 200cc intake:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-162sbcstrft
​​​​​​​

Welcome to CHR, Cletus141! I'll defer to one of the other guys, like glennsexton or ???? to give you advice on the Gen1 SBC heads, but wanted to say welcome, hope you find what you need here and that you decide to stick around!

Hello Cletus and welcome to CHR!

The wonderful thing about Gen I SBC is that there are tons of reasonably priced bolt on parts that can go from mild to wild. A couple questions for you:
1. Is the short block a used part?
2. Has the cam been run and broken in properly?
3. Is this car an automatic or stick?
4. Do you know the rear end ratio?

The reason I ask is that you have a fairly aggressive flat tappet cam that is not going to perform well off idle. You're getting close to a profile that needs octane booster in the fuel and 9.5:1 as a minimum compression ratio. It needs to breathe and have a reasonably geared rear end and a 2600-3000RPM stall (for automatic). I’d want a 3:73 for an automatic and a 3:90 or lower for a stick. Anything higher will mean that around town you spend a lot of time in first and second gear and get embarrassed by the Subaru/Honda/Kia crowd between stoplights.

That said, I think the Flotek heads that you listed would be a good value for your build. Use Fel-Pro 1205 intake manifold gasket, Fel-Pro 1404 exhaust manifold gasket and Fel-Pro 1043 head gaskets – kinda pricy ($100 a pair) but the best. Aluminum heads require a hardened washer between the bolt (or stud) and the aluminum as it is softer that cast iron. The hardened washers are thicker than ordinary washers so make sure you get the correct length fastener – ARP 134-3601 should work just fine.

I don’t often recommend other than stock (1.5:1) rockers but in this build a set of Comp Cams Magnum Steel Roller Tip Rocker Arms 1417-16 would be appropriate. These are a 1.52 roller tip and will give you as close as “perfect-from-the-factory” as possible. Be sure and use a pushrod length checker to determine the exact length required. I believe you will need +.100 for these heads (stock is 7.818” x 5/16” so you would need 7.9” x 5/16” pushrods) but by all means, check as I’ve recommended a bit thinner head gasket.

Hope this helps – again welcome to CHR!

Regards,
Glenn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by glennsexton

Hello Cletus and welcome to CHR!

The wonderful thing about Gen I SBC is that there are tons of reasonably priced bolt on parts that can go from mild to wild. A couple questions for you:
1. Is the short block a used part?
2. Has the cam been run and broken in properly?
3. Is this car an automatic or stick?
4. Do you know the rear end ratio?

The reason I ask is that you have a fairly aggressive flat tappet cam that is not going to perform well off idle. You're getting close to a profile that needs octane booster in the fuel and 9.5:1 as a minimum compression ratio. It needs to breathe and have a reasonably geared rear end and a 2600-3000RPM stall (for automatic). I’d want a 3:73 for an automatic and a 3:90 or lower for a stick. Anything higher will mean that around town you spend a lot of time in first and second gear and get embarrassed by the Subaru/Honda/Kia crowd between stoplights.

That said, I think the Flotek heads that you listed would be a good value for your build. Use Fel-Pro 1205 intake manifold gasket, Fel-Pro 1404 exhaust manifold gasket and Fel-Pro 1043 head gaskets – kinda pricy ($100 a pair) but the best. Aluminum heads require a hardened washer between the bolt (or stud) and the aluminum as it is softer that cast iron. The hardened washers are thicker than ordinary washers so make sure you get the correct length fastener – ARP 134-3601 should work just fine.

I don’t often recommend other than stock (1.5:1) rockers but in this build a set of Comp Cams Magnum Steel Roller Tip Rocker Arms 1417-16 would be appropriate. These are a 1.52 roller tip and will give you as close as “perfect-from-the-factory” as possible. Be sure and use a pushrod length checker to determine the exact length required. I believe you will need +.100 for these heads (stock is 7.818” x 5/16” so you would need 7.9” x 5/16” pushrods) but by all means, check as I’ve recommended a bit thinner head gasket.

Hope this helps – again welcome to CHR!

Regards,
Glenn

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First of all, some context. The original motor was from an '82 Corvette, which I read was a real turd for a vette, with the 624 heads that I also read are some of the worst. My late stepfather swapped out the Crossfire system and put in a Edelbrock Performer and carb, and traditional distributor. He basically only used the longblock.

1. Yes. I'm told pretty low miles, and the visual inspection looks like that's true.
2. yes and I would assume, but cannot verify.
3. yes; it has a muncie. 4 speed, I believe
4. I do not know the rear end ratio, but I think he swapped the gears since it was fun to drive and accelerated decently with that motor.

Well the 1982 Corvette was one disappointing car. It was the first “Cross Fire” engine and designated as the L83. Producing 200 horsepower and 285 lbs/ft of torque it was a real dog – period. It was only available with a 700-R4, four-speed automatic that was a variation of the TH350 with an overdrive fourth gear. The 700-R4 automatic had an electronically controlled torque converter with lockup on all forward gears except first. It has a higher first gear ratio for improved acceleration. The letdown came in second gear as there was a colossal gap between first and second (1st gear: 3.059; 2nd gear: 1.625; 3th gear: 1.00; 4th gear: 0.696. This transmission would be used for a lot of GM cars for the next ten years as horsepower was lacking so gearing was used to compensate.

It would appear that the four speed manual you speak of is “other-than-stock” if the engine/transmission was in a 1982 Corvette. The manifold, carburetor and distributor is also indicative of some major modification as all would require serious work around of the ECM that controlled nearly everything in that time frame for GM vehicles.

So do you have the ’65 El Camino? Does it have a 4 speed installed? What are you planning for intake and carburation? If the El Camino has/had a Gen I small block, the exhaust should be a direct bolt up to the Flo-Tek heads.

By all means, stay with a GM HEI ignition. It’s almost impossible to beat them for reliability and they’re good for all kinds of engine builds. Just make sure to get a genuine GM part or one from an American manufacturer. There are some Chinese knockoffs for $79.99 that are not-so-good.

The rear end is still a wild card. 1965 could be either 10 or 12-bolt (10-Bolt Casting #3859139N, 12-Bolt Casting #3859140N). Ratios are from 2.73:1 (automatics) and 3.08-3.73:1 for sticks. A lot of El Caminos came with positraction. If you get the number I can (in all likelihood) decode for you. The rear axle ID consists of a two letter prefix indicating the gear ratio, four digits indicating the assembly date as month/day, and a single letter suffix indicating the manufacturing location. It is stamped on the bottom or front axle tube (could be on either left or right tube).

Best,
Glenn

I do have the '65 El Camino with the '82 Corvette longblock in front of the Muncie 4spd. It was fitted with headers, Edelbrock Performer intake, not sure about carb or ignition. Bearings went out.

I got a shortblock Gen 1 from a friend for very cheap with low miles and the cam mentioned. I was going to use the 624 heads from the vette motor until I read up on them. Well, original plan was to just swap the shortblocks and reuse everything. Current plan is to swap longblocks and reuse everything once I get some heads. Hoping not to swap out the cam if I don't have to.

I think I better crack open the rearend and figure out the gear ratio manually. It was no slug off the line, so I suspect he swapped the gears

Ok - that's a good bit of information. Easy to calculate rear end ratio - watch this YouTube:

https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervie...EC916A3E02D5CF

Don't use the 624 heads - they really are a limiting factor here. The stock Vortec heads are a lot better but the Floteks will provide a significant upgrade and will work better with the cam you have installed. Headers will bolt right up.

The Edelbrock Performer is an okay manifold when used in conjunction with an Edelbrock 650CFM (1406) carburetor.

The valve train is critical - hopefully you have the lifters that were used with the Trik Flow cam. Be sure to lube the lifters really well when you put things together.

Have fun,
Glenn

I do have the lifters, but I didn't properly order them or label them when storing. I did read up on it a little and was told that I could put in some new lifters, but I'd have to re-break them in. Thoughts?

I'm not looking to get super-long life out of this setup necessarily, since I eventually want to put a built 396 in it, just can't afford to go that route for a few years yet. This car will likely see under 10,000 miles per year, or whatever the insurance cutoff is for "classic car" or whatever that designation is.

Likely soonest I can get into the rearend is next weekend, depending on if I finish putting my transmission with a new Stg 3+ clutch back in to my 2013 Audi S4 this weekend, which is my DD.

Just trying to do my homework for the El Camino so I can get it running for the local classic car event Hot August Nights the first week of August.

Also, on the Flotek heads, would I want straight or angled spark plugs?

Just trying to do my homework for the el Camino. Trying to have it running for the local classic car event Hot August Nights

Stay with straight plugs. Angle are a royal pain - especially with headers.

I have installed lots of new lifters on existing cams and had pretty good luck with the following method:
1. Clean the new lifters with mineral spirits. Don’t use paint thinner or gasoline. Mineral spirits are made of 100-percent petroleum distillates and has no additives or gunky stuff. Costs about five bucks at your local hardware store.
2. Dry them thoroughly and then place them in a container full of oil (same stuff you use in the engine).
3. Coat the bottoms with assembly lube. I use COMP Cams 152. Its $15.95 on Amazon or you may be able to get it locally.
4. When you install the lifters, they should slide in nice and easy, and you’ll hear a little “tink” as they contact the cam.

Adjust the valves to zero lash (push rod is hard to spin between thumb and forefinger) and keep it loose to start the engine. Easiest way is as follows:
1. Bring #1 to TDC (compression stroke)
2. Adjust the intake valves on cylinders 1, 2, 5, & 7 to zero lash.
3. Adjust the exhaust valves on 1, 3, 4, & 8 in the same manner.
4. Rotate crank 360 degrees to get cylinder #6 to compression TDC
5. Adjust the intake valves on 3, 4, 6, & 8 in mentioned manner
6. Adjust the exhaust valves on 2, 5, 6, & 7

Once you start the engine, slowly work them down ½ to ¾ turn from zero lash – no more. Only go until the valve is quiet.

Let us know how you progress and be sure to post some pictures!

Glenn

Thanks a lot Glenn!

Glenn,

Actually, it looks like I have an Edelbrock Super Victor intake:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2925

And Edelbrock 1412 carb:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1412

Not 100% on the carb, but it's stamped "1412 0160" on the lower left mount.

Just pulled the valve covers too. Definitely the 624 heads

624's came in 3 varieties 1.72, 1.94 and 2.02 valves. And yes they are crack prone especially the 2.02's. I have the 1.94 variety in my 76 Corvette and I have a couple thousands miles on them with no problems, your money, your decision.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cletus141

Glenn,

Actually, it looks like I have an Edelbrock Super Victor intake:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2925

And Edelbrock 1412 carb:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1412

Not 100% on the carb, but it's stamped "1412 0160" on the lower left mount.

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Yikes! That manifold/carb would be great for a highly modified 383 stroker that you trailer to the drag strip but it is probably one of the worst street combinations you could possibly run. You need a dual plane manifold that's designed for off-idle to 5,500 RPM The Super Victor is a single plane that dumps fuel straight into your cylinders like the flush of a toilet. The 1412 is a fantastic carburetor - for a modified 454! It's way too much for your build.

Using this induction setup for the street will guarantee frustration and consume copious quantities of gasoline - most of which will be spewed out the tailpipe without making any usable horsepower.

Ditch the Victor and the big Edelbrock and go with this combination:
Weiand Street Warrior Intake Manifold 8126 Weiand 8126 Weiand Street Warrior Intake Manifolds | Summit Racing
Quadrajet JET Performance 34002 JET Streetmaster Quadrajet Stage 2 Carburetors | Summit Racing

A bit simpler and far more streetable!

Glenn

Welcome to CHR, Cletus. Glenn has given you some great advice, I think you'd be well pleased with the results. Over cammed engines with a single plane intake are a couple of the most common mistakes made when choosing parts, bigger is not always better!

Glenn,

Thanks so much for all the help! Remember that one of my goals is to get the car back on the street with as little effort and expense as possible. I was perfectly happy with how that intake combo ran on the turd L83 motor. I'm not concerned with fuel consumption. Your recommended intake combo would nearly double my expenses at Summit. Can I make my existing intake components work reasonably? I would assume that if they were way overkill for the L83 (and ran just fine) that they are less overkill for my newer shortblock. Is that a fair assumption? Part of the reason I'm exploring new heads is that I have been told that my new short block would run like garbage with the old 624 heads. I'm willing to get heads. Hopefully, my Edelbrock setup would run fine and merely be just wasteful, which I'm ok with. It would take me years at my expected annual usage to recoup the cost of the wasted gasoline to justify the expense of the new intake combo.

Am I barking up the wrong tree then to even get the Floteks instead of just running the 624s?

This could prove to be an interesting experiment. The 624 head is a low compression (9.0:1), 76-cc open chamber head. In all likelihood the ones off an ’82 Corvette were 2.02/1.6 valves with 165cc runner volume. The intake runner volume influences how the combustion chamber is filled during the intake stroke. Smaller runner volume(s) increase the velocity of the air going into the combustion chamber and as such, they build more torque at low rpm (when using stock or near stock intake/carburetion). As such, small runners are best for street cars. They typically accelerate better off idle and perform well below 6,000 rpm. However, at higher RPMs, the small runners restrict the airflow, limiting the output. As mentioned above, the 624 heads can be used successfully but one needs to pay attention to cracks.

Your Victor intake and 850 CFM carb need a larger intake runner volume (180 - 210cc) to be effective and typically do not perform well below 2,500 RPM.

Larger runners will provide better fuel distribution at high rpm. This increases horsepower; however, they don’t start making that horsepower until higher in the rpm range. This results in poor performance on the street.

The Floteks have smaller combustion chambers (62cc) and larger runners (180cc) so they will provide some compensation for the over carburation. It could prove to be quite acceptable and it sounds like you’re familiar with the combination so you know that if you let the clutch out at 1,200 RPM you will bog like an elephant in quicksand. Once you’re rolling and at about 3,000 it should jump like a scalded rabbit.

So back to your original question (and I definitely hear you on the money side of things!!), I’d still shy away from the 624 heads, go with the Flotecs (with new bolts, pushrods and the recommended gaskets) and drive it like you stole it!

Have fun,
Glenn

Hey Cletus, it sounds like Glenn has given you a ton of great advice, including some info on how things might work on a budget. Hoping that after you get your new heads and get things buttoned up you'll come back and let us know what you experience. You can always grab the 8126 Weiand Street Warrior Intake Manifold and 34002 JET Streetmaster Quadrajet Stage 2 Carburetor later, if you want to spend the bucks and make it a bit more street friendly. Be sure to use a high zinc/phosphorus (ZDDP) motor oil with that flat tappet cam!

Another way to lower your expenses is to spend some time at the local swap meets and going through the ads on Craigslist and local ad sites.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Another way to lower your expenses is to spend some time at the local swap meets and going through the ads on Craigslist and local ad sites.

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Good advice, but I'd be cautious about buying a used Quadrajet from anybody! They are not an easy carb to rebuild, there are a lot of things to look for on a used unit, and there aren't a lot of quality shops to do a rebuild right. IMO you'd be much better off saving for a new/rebuilt unit from Summit or the like. Just my $0.02 at my advanced age....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rspears

Just my $0.02 at my advanced age....

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You're advanced?

Lucky you!

I'm on retard...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by glennsexton

This could prove to be an interesting experiment. The 624 head is a low compression (9.0:1), 76-cc open chamber head. In all likelihood the ones off an ’82 Corvette were 2.02/1.6 valves with 165cc runner volume. The intake runner volume influences how the combustion chamber is filled during the intake stroke. Smaller runner volume(s) increase the velocity of the air going into the combustion chamber and as such, they build more torque at low rpm (when using stock or near stock intake/carburetion). As such, small runners are best for street cars. They typically accelerate better off idle and perform well below 6,000 rpm. However, at higher RPMs, the small runners restrict the airflow, limiting the output. As mentioned above, the 624 heads can be used successfully but one needs to pay attention to cracks.

Your Victor intake and 850 CFM carb need a larger intake runner volume (180 - 210cc) to be effective and typically do not perform well below 2,500 RPM.

Larger runners will provide better fuel distribution at high rpm. This increases horsepower; however, they don’t start making that horsepower until higher in the rpm range. This results in poor performance on the street.

The Floteks have smaller combustion chambers (62cc) and larger runners (180cc) so they will provide some compensation for the over carburation. It could prove to be quite acceptable and it sounds like you’re familiar with the combination so you know that if you let the clutch out at 1,200 RPM you will bog like an elephant in quicksand. Once you’re rolling and at about 3,000 it should jump like a scalded rabbit.

So back to your original question (and I definitely hear you on the money side of things!!), I’d still shy away from the 624 heads, go with the Flotecs (with new bolts, pushrods and the recommended gaskets) and drive it like you stole it!

Have fun,
Glenn

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Glen,

Thanks for all the advice! I think based on your input that I'm going to give the Floteks a chance with the existing Edelbrock intake combo. And thanks for the advice on the new lifters too!

Be sure and let us know how it all comes together. Pictures would be great!

Glenn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by glennsexton

Be sure and let us know how it all comes together. Pictures would be great!

Glenn

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Here's the car

The one generation of El Camino I haven't owned.


.