blow by and swirly port heads.

Hey guys n gals,
i have a very annoying problem i have never experienced before. i am going to be extremely detailed to avoid confusion. here is goes. i purchases a sbc 350 that had some miles on it, it was burning excessive oil but ran well. i originally thought it had vortec heads but i have now become aware they are not. they are 1994ish swirl port heads #10110810 from a tbi truck. anyways the engine was rebuilt bored .30 over magnifluxed block and both heads. crankshaft grinded .010, resurfaced cylinders .007. knurilized valve guides. new flat top pistons, moly rings, new oil pump, oil pump shaft, main baring, rod baring. comp cam 12-238-2, int .462 ext .469 comp lifters. broke in cam with the recommended oil. here is where it gets interesting, engine runs great almost perfect, but it is still burning as much oil as before the rebuild! ill be honest it has alot of idling time as i was still working on the rest of the truck. i did not notice any oil burning, until i finally took the vehicle out. once warm it burns 1ltr every 100 miles. concerned i completed a leak down test cold. i have 20% leak on each cylinder. new pcv valve on drivers side cover, breather on passenger side.holly 4160 750 cfm, edelbrock intake. the intake center 4 holes have been reamed out to bolt to the swirl heads, i have removed the intake to review the gaskets. installed new fel-pro gaskets and confirmed they are sealing around the EGR port, as well as everywhere else. heat gauge reads 180, but some spots when skin touching valve covers are hotter then others. i see the puffs of steam out of valve cover breather and pcv valve when i pull them out and rev the engine.it appears i am getting excessive blow by on all 8 cylinders, all plugs are wet with oil. i only notice blue smoke when warm, it becomes more as the engine warms. im at a lose any ideas are appreciated. some extra info, it burned about the same amount of oil before rebuild, i found excessive carbon under intake before rebuild, im already seeing how this is continued after rebuild. i do not know what else to check? what other reason can be causing the blow by? maybe the rings did not seat? its peppy, and if it were not for the blue smoke i wouldn't think i had an issue its running very well

What type of seals were used on the valve stems?
And see if you can verify the intake to cylinder head angles, It could be pulling in oil mist from under the intake along the lower edge. I didn't see anywhere if you were using a stock intake or aftermarket.

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Originally Posted by dontaskagain

knurilized valve guides. edelbrock intake. the intake center 4 holes have been reamed out to bolt to the swirl heads,l

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Agree with 34_40, intake angle and stem seals could be the problem.
Reamed out bolt holes to match heads??? knurled guides need really good stem seals.

I see it now! Edelbrock intake. Still need to verify the angles are a match.

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Originally Posted by dontaskagain

i see the puffs of steam out of valve cover breather and pcv valve when i pull them out and rev the engine.

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STEAM, or blowby?

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Originally Posted by dontaskagain

i have 20% leak on each cylinder.

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JMHO, 20% is pretty high for a new rebuild.

Not trying to nit pick, but if you break your posts up a little (paragraphs), it will be easier to read and you'll get help faster.

Welcome to CHR!

I see I'm a bit late to this party but what I read is rings not seated - 20% leak down means when you're engine is running you are really pressurizing the crankcase. the puffs you see out of the breather are, in all likelihood, atomized oil. If the cylinders were properly honed, the the rings should seat within the first 25-30 miles. If you've gone 100 miles, there is little chance they will seat beyond where they are right now. Do you know if the bores were honed to a 45 degree cross hatch after the bore?

Refinished cylinder walls .oo7? what grit and pattern????? piston clearance----you said .030 over ------------what size rings? maybe some upside down? end gap alignment?
You can aid ring seating by sprinkerling BonAmi powder into the intake while engine running--it might take a while--------
were the rings the correct size for the piston groves and radial depth??

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

You can aid ring seating by sprinkerling BonAmi powder into the intake while engine running--it might take a while--------

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We used to use Borax! Lol, those were the days!

Knurled guides are seldom an effective way to fix a head. Plug in your air source to the cylinder at about 80 PSI, remove the valve cover and check for air coming around the valve stems on the valves that are open. With 20% leakage you should be able to hear the air either around the valves or in the oil pan.

First thanks for all the replies, and to clear it up I did not do the heads or the block a engine builder who is known for doing good work was recommended to me i dropped it off and I'm relaying you all what he documented was done. So im just trying to get to the bottom of it, putting my trust he did the engine correctly
I talked to the engine builder today he assured me the valve guides are not my issue.(still could be) I did look up the part numbers on the rings and the rest to confirm the right size was used. All good.
I have learned from you folks alot about a leak test... my tester is misleading and its my first time doing one. It claims the green "good range" right up to 40% so I figured 20% was not terrible, but now thinking about that thats quite excessive. Leaning me towards glazed cylinders. Due to my break in. Like I said I followed the cam instructions and changed the oil right after(comp break in oil) then used 10w-30, and basically built a truck around the engine. I did make the mistake of idling over a few months maybe 30 minutes total before taking it out to the highway and ran it maybe 20 miles noticing the oil consumption. At about 1/4 Ltr.
The amount of smoke is misleading it does not smoke on start up it does not smoke until its good and warm. And I've had vehicles that burned a hell of lot less oil with a hell of a lot more smoke when the rings are the issue. Its not dark blue its light blue and smells like fuel it also uses way to much fuel. carb is set good.
I quess if it walks, and quacks like a duck... its a duck. But I feel like something is off here I'm not seeing. I'd hate to pull it out if I can fix this before its too late its only got 20-30 miles on it. But I can't belive the amount of oil that is disappearing even with 300000km worn out rings i haven't seen this much oil disappear and with not much smoke...
Ps I've already confirmed its not an intake issue and I do not have any unwanted crank case pressure until its been at 180 degrees for about 5 minutes and then I start to see the puffs of steam/oil from the valve cover breather and it comes at the same time as the smoke starts to come???

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Originally Posted by dontaskagain

Its not dark blue its light blue and smells like fuel it also uses way to much fuel. carb is set good.

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Interesting, but not to funny!
This could be fuel wash. What's your fuel pressure? Does your oil smell of gas?

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Originally Posted by dontaskagain

I do not have any unwanted crank case pressure until its been at 180 degrees for about 5 minutes and then I start to see the puffs of steam/oil from the valve cover breather and it comes at the same time as the smoke starts to come???

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Is there water in the oil or visa versa?

Have you tried to retorque the head bolts?

Definitely smell the oil for gas.

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Originally Posted by 36 sedan

What's your fuel pressure? Does your oil smell of gas?

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36 sedan asked a critical question. I don't see that you mentioned what fuel pump you're using but your Edelbrock carb calls for 6.5psig (MAX), and most folks recommend keeping it below 5psig.

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Originally Posted by rspears

36 sedan asked a critical question. I don't see that you mentioned what fuel pump you're using but your Edelbrock carb calls for 6.5psig (MAX), and most folks recommend keeping it below 5psig.

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sorry for my ignorance this is my first real ground off restoration and i am learning the more advanced things the expensive way. anyways its a mechanical fuel pump a factory replacement would be my educated guess( it came when i bought the engine) but i believe they put out something in the range of 5-8psi am i right? anyways i have both bowls set at maybe 1/4 or a tiny bit less then 1/4 in the sight glass, ive played with it when i was tuning the engine and it can fill them or keep them low. so correct me if im wrong but i should be in the correct range of pressure?

i am a little bit worried the cylinders where not honed properly for moly rings? what is the correct grit/stone for this i want to ask the builder what he did now i have learned the leak down tester is misleading giving a green "good zone" up to 40%. i am at 20%(seems a bit much as someone else mentioned) on each cylinder i preformed the test cold not sure if it would be better hot?. i could hear what sounded like a balloon filling during the test but could not pin point it at the spots to check i thought that may be a normal sound. should it be silent during the test?

if it does end up being rings have not seated properly. what do you guys think about putting in some SAE 30 non detergent and driving the piss out of it for a while? maybe moly rings need extra time to seat, again this is still new under 50 miles on the vehicle. in the past ive just had cast iron rings and never noticed any smoke ever on a new engine they seem to break in pretty much instantly.

I have experienced stock mechanical replacement pumps that push more than 10psi. I have experienced stock mechanical replacement pumps pushing fuel past the needle seats in my Edelbrock carbs. I have a pressure gauge and a regulator on all of my carburetors, Edlebrock's are set at 4-5psi, Holley's are set at 4-5psi. SMELL YOUR OIL for fuel.

YES, both my Edelbrock and Holley carbs are set at the same pressure. Carburetors fuel supplies DO NOT operate by high fuel pressure, rather by gravity, atmospheric pressure (differentials of) and fuel VOLUME.

IMHO, no carburetor needs more than 5psi. If you need more than 5psi, you have a supply volume problem (fuel line and/or pump rating is too small), not a pressure problem. The carburetor only needs enough fuel pressure to overcome gravity and atmospheric pressures, SUPPLY volume (Gallons Per Hour) is what keeps the fuel bowls full.

And, JMHO, if you think the rings are not seated, TRY what JERRY said, use BonAmmi and see if it seats the rings. BonAmmi is a mild abrasive that will break the cylinder glaze and allow the rings to seat (in most cases).

However, if you have a ring gap or misalignment problem, BonAmmi will be no help at all..

P.S. as Denny says, always use DETERGENT oil.

With ONLY 50 miles on it, it's to early to tell. And does it have more time on it idling than driving?
Run it down the road / highway and at a bunch of different rpms. Then change the oil and re-evaluate.

Again, just my opinion.

Denny, I respectfully disagree with the float weight and length being a factor in figuring fuel pressure.

JMHO, the float operates the needle and seat valve by a fulcrum (leverage), and the float itself is a buoyancy factor (moved by the fuel). When fuel is used from the float bowl, the float drops opening the needle valve allowing fuel to enter and refill the bowl, as the fuel fills the bowl it raises the float pushing the needle shut stopping fuel entry. While inertia may play into the weight and length factor, I can not see how either float weight or length would dictate the minimum fuel pressure required.

And, while most carburetor manufacturers will specify a maximum pressure, it should not be confused with normal operating pressure. Though, I have seen manufacture’s tech support tell people to raise their fuel pressure, usually it is due to a poor fuel supply system and a tech trying to make it work with what they have, seldom with optimal results.

Excessive fuel pressure is the number #1 cause of carburetor troubles. High pressure will push fuel past the needle seat and flood the motor.

Again, no disrespect is intended, I truly respect your knowledge and experience. Simply want to clarify and help avoid problems and misunderstandings about carburetors.

I’ll modify my original comment to; “no STREET operated carburetor needs more than 4-5psi.”

BTW, excellent breakin procedure.

Hey guys, I just wanted to thank you all for taking the time to give me advice. I am fairly new to the game. But !SOLVED! the problem thanks to all the input... i couldn't be happier.
I had a bit of luck and some good advice.. but if you have been following this you will know I had taken the intake off as a first step to ensure it was sealing. I also mentioned I had under 50 miles on the truck. I may have been over reacting. But the intake was not sealing properly and I was getting a small amount of antifreeze into the oil from the poor seal. I made this post after making sure I sealed the intake 100%.
From day one I had water in oil so during break in of the rings I had this issue( again only 50 miles) the rings were not seating. Here is the lucky part I think. Today I changed the oile to a 30w oil has a last resort before pulling the engine, and actually drove the piss out of it on the highway slowing down and to the floor repeat. Came home hot did a compression test 180 all around. Leak down test came in at 5% AND BEST OF ALL 0 SMOKE. plugs cleaned up basically a miracle.
Now I'm confident I'm good to go and this morning I was rdy to pull the engine. My gut told me it was going to be something simple and it was. And more bright side I learned a shit ton over the last few weeks. Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by 36 sedan

I have experienced stock mechanical replacement pumps that push more than 10psi. I have experienced stock mechanical replacement pumps pushing fuel past the needle seats in my Edelbrock carbs. I have a pressure gauge and a regulator on all of my carburetors, Edlebrock's are set at 4-5psi, Holley's are set at 4-5psi. SMELL YOUR OIL for fuel.

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i am taking your advice 36 sedan.fuel pressure seems too important to overlook.

Great news on the fix - and a lot of good information here too. I been building a long time but always appreciate what everyone has to say and usually learn something as well. (Oh gosh - Bon Ami! My mother used to use that stuff and I would have never dreamed of ingesting it through an engine but if Jerry says it works, then I believe!!)

Regards all,
Glenn

Denny, nice clarification.
Thank you!

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Originally Posted by glennsexton

(Oh gosh - Bon Ami! My mother used to use that stuff and I would have never dreamed of ingesting it through an engine but if Jerry says it works, then I believe!!)

Regards all,
Glenn

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I can speak firsthand that it works. Back in the day we used borax

Not to steal this thread, but....

Many years ago (you know this is gonna be good, right?) – I had a friend with a 1951 Pontiac that we affectionately nicknamed “the Beast”. It was a straight 8 and someone had made headers for this thing as well an adapter for a Carter AFB four barrel. This was one sweet ride, complete with a 4 speed hydro transmission and it was really pretty fast for the time.

It began to smoke and cough (likely due to seeing WOT on a very regular basis) and we somehow heard about the miracles of Rislone and Seafoam Green. We put a quart of Rislone in the crankcase and poured a bottle of Seafoam down the carb (at a fast idle of course) and within seconds, the smoke began to billow out of those dual tailpipes. We’re talking a lot of smoke – so thick we couldn’t see the end of our noses. Not to be discouraged, we got the entire can down and ran that baby at about 2,000 RPM until the smoke cleared to 10 foot visibility and then took the Poncho for a test drive. Oh my goodness, it coughed and belched for about ten miles (all the while spewing smoke thick enough to kill every mosquito within five states) and then all of the sudden, it smoothed out and we drove her back to my buddy’s house.

After a cool down, we installed new plugs/points/condenser, rotor, and cap and the Beast started with just a tap of the key and roared like a reborn lion with new life. He drove it for another year and sold it to a guy in San Bernardino as Uncle Sam called his number. Never saw the Beast again – but this smoking thread brought her to mind.

Hope you have a lot of miles and memories from your ride and remember to occasionally “… drive it like you stole it…” just because you can.

Thanks for letting me ramble a bit.
Glenn

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Originally Posted by glennsexton

Oh my goodness, it coughed and belched for about ten miles (all the while spewing smoke thick enough to kill every mosquito within five states)

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ROTFLMAO! I had one of those! I called it my BOND car, everywhere it went it laid an oil slick and smoke screen!

True story; we pulled into a gas station and had the attendant put 5 quarts of oil in it. Started it up, and within seconds you could hardly see us or the station, the attendant said "What happened?, it wasn't smoking when you came in????." I said, It never does when it's out of oil!!!!

Oh, and never put 90wt gear oil in your burner, it stinks to high heaven! (ask me how I know, lol)

I remember back in 1960 my dad bought a 60 Rambler at around 100K it went from good gas millage to an oil burner. we would check the gas and fill the oil. He carried a gallon can of oil in the back.

LOL! Mine was a '59 Rambler, I bought to get to work while my Vette was getting fenders widened, flared and painted. Ended up doing a driveway rebuild on the Rambler motor (honed, rings, bearings, lapped the valves and waterglassed the head and block), drove it for another 4 years.