Jegs crate motor choices vs. local rebuilder

I'm restoring my 67 GMC pickup. I've sold the worn out, non original 283 and am looking at replacement motors. I don't need 400 hp, but, of course, the more power the better! That said, I've had the truck for 30 years and it probably never had over 150 hp, so any new motor will be a great improvement.

Jegs has a 195-260 hp crate 350 for $2,200 with intake, carb, hei distrib and coil and some shiny stuff
Chevrolet Performance 10067353K1, GM Goodwrench 350ci Engine & Packages | Chevrolet Performance

Jegs also has an entry level of this same motor for $1450.00, without carb, intake or hei or for $1,880 I can get this motor with a Performance ZZ alum intake, intake gaskets, HEI distrib and 6.75" harm balancer.
Chevrolet Performance 10067353, GM Goodwrench 350ci Engine & Packages | Chevrolet Performance

A local engine rebuilder has 350 rebuilds for $899.00 with no intake, carb or hei, but a $200 core (I don't have a core engine since I sold mine).
CSD 350 Stock Replacement

The $1,450 Jegs motor is really tempting, but since I don't have an intake or distrib, and the edelbrock carb I have probably needs rebuilding, is it worth buying the $2200 motor instead?

Thanks for any input! I'm obviously not a motor guy, so any input or ideas are appreciated! I'm also looking at serpentine belt kits, since I have no brackets, pulleys, etc.
Jegs has one for $1800.00
March Performance 21150, March Style Track Small Block Chevrolet Serpentine Pulley System | March Performance

LMC truck and Vintage air both have them in the $1800- $2,200 range. What do you guys think of these serpentine belt kits?

Thanks!

I wouldn't buy either of those GM crate engines, as they're both flat tappet cam engines, and I wouldn't invest my $$$ in anything that's not hydraulic roller cam. With a flat tappet cam the risks are simply too big for eroding lobes, which then leads to trashing every bearing surface with abrasive particles. Same goes for your local rebuilder - I'd insist on a roller cam, period. One good thing about the GM Performance Parts package is the OEM GM warranty, but some of the other big companies have similar warranty packages, too, which is something your local rebuilder likely does not even want to talk about.

On the belt package, if you're sold on the integrated drive system I'd take a hard look at the package offered by RockyHinge - link here Quality At Affordable Prices High quality, small family business, and lower prices. It's V-belts, but I like them better anyway.

Since you need a complete engine and also want a serpentine belt drive-take a look at take outs of a modern engine package- an LS type efi, serpentine belt--------good performance, milage, etc----------

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Since you need a complete engine and also want a serpentine belt drive-take a look at take outs of a modern engine package- an LS type efi, serpentine belt--------good performance, milage, etc----------

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Jerry's point is valid, a complete takeout package including the engine, tranny, ECU and the wiring harnesses (engine & instrument) is a nice option, but be aware that you're going to have to have the ECU reworked to strip out security features, the tie to the OEM VIN, and to eliminate other features that you may not want for your '67 truck. You'll need O2 sensors in your exhaust to replicate the OEM parts, and if you're not running CAT's the post CAT inputs have to be defeated or the ECU will get unhappy. It's a great way to go, but it's far from the "...buy a takeout, drop it in, start it up" that some people seem to expect based on Gen 1 engines. Do your homework.

The GM Performance Parts 383 roller block crate engine with the Fastburn heads would be at the top of my list. Second choice would be one of the GMPP 350 roller cam engines. GMPP engines are priced right and the warranty alone would make me seriously consider going with them. The LS is popular right now, but bring with it issues that Roger noted. GMPP engines are basically bolt in and go and would be a great fit for your build. I would go with the vortec head, or aluminum head also. You can use both GM or Edelbrock intake on these heads. Edelbrock has a nice carb for the street. I would go with the v-belt setup, rather than serpentine, and spend the money saved there to get the vortec head long block.

The ZZ-5 crate motor is a great combination, and comes pretty well complete except for carb. Serpentine belts are pretty and work well, but the expense isn't worth it to me. If you're going for a "dressed up" engine with a lot of bling, you can get polished aluminum or chrome pulleys for much less. If you just want a nice clean motor, painted steel pulleys and brackets look great. Put the extra cost of the serpentine system into a better motor.

Thanks guys for the great info, but unfortunately I'm on a pretty limited budget. I've got $3,500 max to get a motor in and running - including intake, carb, balancer, alternator, distributor, pulleys, brackets, etc. I've looked at a few different 383 options mentioned in the posts and the motors alone start at $5,500, plus all the accessories. I've looked into the LS options, but don't have the time or inclination to sort out all the complications.

I see the ZZ5 for about $5k, which includes carb, balancer, water pump and distributor, but it's $1,500 more then I've got, plus I'd still need pulleys, brackets, alternator, etc.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...q-BhoChbrw_wcB

Re: warranty - all the engines seem to have a 12 month warranty, since my 1967 truck is not a "listed vehicle". Even the local engine rebuilder has a 12 month warranty.

Any suggestions on the best motor in my budget? In the long run, I'd like to build a 327 to put in the truck, since that's what was in it originally (unfortunately that block is long gone). In the meantime, I've got to get my truck on the road in the next 2 months.

Thanks for the help!

So you are missing everything? mounts, exhaust manifolds /pipes, starter, water pump alternator, brackets?
Only look at the late 80s on era for oem hydraulic rollers, a fuel pump mount-will be one piece rear seal and flywheel will be from same as crankshaft---

Jerry, I've got stock exhaust manifolds and the old dual exhaust to cover me for the time being, and a used edelbrock 600 carb. No starter, no waterpump, no brackets, no alternator. The motor mounts and alternator were shot, so I didn't keep them. The alternator bracket was put on about 20 years ago and never worked right. The truck did not have power steering, so no bracket or pump (but I'm adding that now). I've got the old flywheel that I'll need to get resurfaced. I also need a new clutch.

I found this motor for $2,500.00 at the local rebuilder's website. It's advertised as 400 hp with aluminum heads, hydraulic cam and roller rockers. I'd still need pulleys, etc, but it might be barely within my budget. Any thoughts? Is there a reason I should avoid the rebuilder and stick to a crate motor? Since the shop is only 45 minutes from me, any warranty issues would be pretty easy to deal with.

CSD 350 Aluminum Heads

CSD 350 ALUMINUM HEADS
HORSEPOWER - 400
TORQUE - 467 FT. LBS.
COMPRESSION - 9.5:1
CRANKSHAFT - SCAT 9000
PISTONS - SPEED PRO
CAMSHAFT - COMP HYDRAULIC THUMPER 12-600-4 (2200 STALL REQUIRED)
HEADS - E-FORCE ALUMINUM HEADS (200 CC RUNNERS/64 CC)
VALVES - 2.02/1.60 STAINLESS
ROCKERS - COMP ROLLERS
TIMING - DOUBLE ROW
OIL PUMP - MELLING HIGH VOLUME
RODS - GM RECONDITIONED
BALANCER - INCLUDED
INTAKE - EDELBROCK PERFORMER
ALUMINUM PULLEYS
ALUMINUM WATER PUMP
ALUMINUM VALVE COVERS

The 12-600-4 is another flat tappet cam. In your situation I'd go visit the local rebuilder, tell him you want a solid 350 Gen 1 SBC with a roller cam, on a budget and see what he can do. If you go to Summit Racing and plug in the criteria of SBC, Gen 1, roller cam, sorted by price low to high the first one that comes close is $3100 - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hp...make/chevrolet but you'll never get it done for $3500 total, needing alternator, pulleys, brackets & belts, etc, etc....

Look for a vortec take out of latest model pick up or suv you can find in yard-----------you'll need to do electric fuel pump (no mount on motor) and add an edelbrock manifold and dist----------
get brackets, alternator, starter, exhaust----


will be roller cam, good heads and decent power

Hey!! I'm thinking that since you want a 327 later why not find a used SBC (any CI) just to get it running and save your money for the 327 build! Pete

The roller cam block, in my opinion is a must regardless of who the builder is. The "vortec" heads would be very high on my wish list. Price a long block (short block and heads), then complete engine with used intake, carb, dist, etc to stay within budget. Water pump should be new. Ask the local engine rebuilders to price a long block with roller block and vortec heads. See if this would help with budget limits. As for the 327; a 350 can be built cheaper than a 327 and you can have the roller cam. The flat tappet cam is the Achilles heal of the sbc. Break in is so critical with them. The engine by the local builder with the 200 cc intake runner heads, 9.5:1 compression and the thumper cam may not be the most streetable combination. 175 cc runners, 9.5:1, and 215/225 @ .050 would be my choice to start at with your budget. As for the 2200 stall, GM used a 2500 stall in their factory Vettes. Why the high volume pump? 400 hp and a small budget may not fit well in your case. Just my opinion. Others may disagree.

An issue with getting an builder to do roller block -won't happen on the cheap budjet---------all the sbc cores are expensive (supply/demand) roller lifter blocks are later years of production and were efi-hence after a period of time the fuel pump mount was dis continued------Yes the block can be drilled and machined for the mount but this adds costs-------


as strange as it may sound , I make more money on machining a core block for a build than I do on a Dart ---------the machining operation can earn me upwards of $100 hour where as putting it together breaks down to mechanics wage!!!!!!!!!


A rebuit engine will have many dollars added for the teardown, cleanup, assemble process that a take out will not------and the takeout will have all the brackets, bolts, ect-------


However, a late model will need an electric fuel pump, regardless if its for carb or efi and even if its a block with a mount, it might not have a camshaft with a fuel pump lobe on it--

Deuce4dad - I was kinda thinking that a 400 hp build may not be what I need - i'm reusing the stock 4 speed trans and rearend, and figure they may not last long with that kind of power, plus, I'm not sure how streetable that engine would be. Thanks for the explanation about flat tappet cam. Is the problem with the flat tappet that if it's not broken in correctly, the cam will shed metal particles into the engine? What is the correct way to break in a 350 sbc? I've never had a new motor!

prpmmp - i'm going back and forth on the motor. I don't want a junkyard motor, since I might be driving this motor for 5+ years, which is originally why I was looking at the $800 rebuild or the $1450 jegs or summit motor - just keep it stock and drive it for awhile. I may still go that route, but really like the info and ideas I'm getting on this forum.

rspears - I really like your idea of asking the local rebuilder about a custom 350 Gen 1 SBC with a roller cam. I'll definitely contact them about this.

Where in NorCal are you?

hpcbmw, the issue with the flat tappet cam has been discussed a bunch here, and it's not the cam/lifters but the fact that oil was changed due to the heavy metals (zinc & phosphorus) that were added to provide lubrication of high pressure contact loads (lifter sliding on cam lobes) were found to be plugging CAT's. When this came about virtually all of the OEM's had already switched to roller lifters, to take advantage of reduced friction, faster acceleration ramps, etc, so dropping the zinc and phosphorous was not a big deal for them but it caused tons of failures of older engines, especially those built for better performance - modified cam profiles.

You may get away with breaking in a new flat tappet cam, and have trouble free operation if you run oil marketed for racing, like Brad Penn's or Joe Gibbs' products, but you'll need to be religious with it for the life of the engine, and you're still in a bit of a crap shoot, IMO. I'd opt for roller lifters, period.

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Originally Posted by hpcbmw

Deuce4dad - Is the problem with the flat tappet that if it's not broken in correctly, the cam will shed metal particles into the engine? What is the correct way to break in a 350 sbc? I've never had a new motor!

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This tutorial that I wrote for the Crankshaft Coalition wiki should explain all the pitfalls of running a flat tappet cam....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...ips_and_tricks

If I were in your position, I'd look for an L31 engine complete from a wreck. Here's a wiki article that includes all the cars and SUV's that used that motor. It's a Gen I motor with Vortec iron heads and will make a good foundation for a truck motor for the street, factory roller cam and all. Use a high-rise, dual-plane intake manifold such as the Edelbrock 7116 and carburetor of your choice.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w..._cylinder_head

.

You might check out these guys. They've built up quite a name in the off-road arena, providing takeouts for buggies and extreme jeeps - Engines - Engine & Transmission - Products They're in Gilroy, CA - no idea if that's close to you or not....

Looks like Roger has it found for you-if I remember Gilroy is near bay area----------
these are on a pallet and have wiring harness ecm and alt, power steering, serpentine belt etc etc etc

Roger - I think you found the perfect solution for me! I called Pacific Fabrication and they were very helpful. The 4.8l LS motor with all accessories for $1,750 looks like a great package for me. They've got adapter mounting brackets to mount this in the SBC mounts for another $75.00 and they tell me the stock bellhousing for my sm420 trans will bolt right up. Plus, they are only about 2 hours drive from me (I'm just east of Sacramento).

It's a bit of a risk, not knowing how many miles are on the motor, or what shape it's in, but they've got a 12 month warranty. I'm pretty sure this will be my motor. I assume I could buy a motor cheaper from a junkyard, but then I'd have to figure out how to flash the ecu, sort out a wiring harness and I'd have no warranty.

Thanks to Roger and Techinspector for the info on the flat tappet cams. I'll have to read through the wiki when I get a chance.

I'm assuming the 4.8l LS engine has roller cams, since it looks like they were produced starting 2007.

Thanks for all the help guys! I'll be back with a bunch of questions soon. I've got some rust repair and paint work to do on the engine compartment before I get the motor in, but hopefully I'll be picking up a motor from Pacific Fab in about a month. Here's what my truck looks like right now, so I got some work to do before dropping a motor in.

You might want to re-read Roger's post at #4 above. Does this engine come stock with an ECU and the related installation complications?

Glad it's looking like a good solution for you. I think that when you get ready to pull the trigger they can tell you the origin of your engine (vehicle, VIN & miles), but I could well be wrong. I've just seen them popping up in the off-road world as a good solution to their needs. Hope it works out well!

Jack,
That's one of the neat features of this place. Their "Ready To Run"packages come with a pre-flashed ECU/PCM, new wiring harness, and all OEM accessories. Each one is custom matched to the specific needs, with lead times in the two to three week range, depending on volume.

The 4.8 would be ok, but I would price a 5.3 (327) before buying. These guys are probably hand picking their engines from local salvage yards in the Gilroy, Morgan Hill area according to mileage. The 4.8 and 5.3 should go at a much cheaper price than the larger displacement LS engines. The LS engine would be a plus for the value of the truck later on too. Sounds like a good way to go if they will give you some installation and start up support.

I bought a rebuilt long block from these guys, https://www.sandjengines.com/ , it was cheaper than having it built here in California, because labor here is astranomical. With shipping and core charge it was still about a 1000.00 less than having mine rebuilt here, and they will put whatever parts you want in it, and give you a good warranty.

Ouch! The guys in Gilroy are proud of the 5.3! $750 above the 4.8 @ $1750.

I agree with Duece -another $750 - OUCH! I've been reading and asking around about the 4.8 vs the 5.3. It's about 20 more hp and 20 more ft lbs torque. Also, it seems the 5.3 is more amenable to bolt on hp mods. With either motor I'll have plenty of power (I say that now, but I'm sure I'll want more once I drive it awhile). What do you guys think of the 4.8 vs. 5.3? I doubt I'll have the budget for an extra $750 for the 5.3 but anything is possible.

I realize I'll need a new radiator, new exhaust (LS motor comes with stock exhaust manifolds, but I need new exhaust pipes), gas pedal cable routing, clutch and flywheel. They say my existing bell housing will work.

Pacific Fab quoted me $650 for a clutch and flyweel -does this sound right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hpcbmw

Pacific Fab quoted me $650 for a clutch and flyweel -does this sound right?

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It's in the ballpark, assuming it's new in the box. What brand are they supplying?

The 5.3 engine is most definitely adequate. Think fuel injected 327 sbc. The 4.8 may be underpowered, based on cubic inches. Think fuel injected 283 sbc. Lol!