Thread: Old vs new heads

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A friend of mine has a set of old AFR 210 heads with 2.080 intake valves that are from the mid to late 90's. If I wanted to stay close to the performance of those heads today. would The AFR 195 (2.050 intake valve) heads be close to the same performance or should I go with 210 with same valve size. With the technology of today's heads, do they flow and perform much better to where The 195 heads of today be close to a old 210 head from the 90's? If you had 2 identical engine. 1 with new AFR 195's and 1 with 20 year old AFR 210's, would the head performance be about the same?

Welcome to CHR. Hope you enjoy a long stay here.

You'd go with the head volume that fits your static compression needs, right? If your engine is set up for 210's and you go to 195's you're going to bump your compression. As far as better flow, I would expect that AFR's improvements from the mid 90's to now (20 years?) is going to be pretty significant, meaning that if you flow bench an old 210 compared to a new one you're going to see significant differences, but the answer is not to decrease volume unless you're making other changes, too. Curious, why are you asking, and why wouldn't you want the newer head with better flow, if there is a choice?

The 210 and 195 spec is port volume--not combustion chamber size, however, the issue of chamber cc volume size is an impoetant consideration and as Roger has stated make a very important decision that needs to be made at the beginning of any build that is so important to do with fuel requirements and cam timing choices---Probably the biggest issue you will have is valve clearance notches for a 2.050 or 2.080 valve as not only are the diameters different so are there location in the head which also means offset to gain wall clearance and exhaust valve head clearance which will then require offset rockers(read that as shaft ) and roller lifters with offset pushrods-----$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Sorry for the confusion. I was only wanting to know about head performance. These heads have been on a 400 sbc and a Dart block so I know all about the cc and clearance issues. I know about the combustion ratio piston and cam selection. Let me ask it this way. With what I am wanting to do, would 20 year old AFR 210's have about the same characteristics as a new set of AFR 195's today. I was trying to leave a lot of the specs out and consecrate only on the heads.

The heads probably have serial numbers on them--call AFR and ask them------

Sorry, I was off base with my reply talking about chamber volume. Probably depends on how you plan to use the engine as much as anything else, right? Is it going to be mostly in the mid-range with an occasional run up to high rpm, or will it have significant time pushing the limits? How important is a friendly idle range for you?

Originally Posted by rspears

Sorry, I was off base with my reply talking about chamber volume.

You may have been closer to correct than you think. A smaller intake port runner will speed up the mixture and help to pack the cylinders better, resulting in a higher cylinder pressure, the same result you might get with a smaller chamber.

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Jerry thanks for your idea but that was the first thing it did----- Please remember that AFR is looking to making a sale a new heads not suggesting taking used heads to a locals machine shop and have then refurbished, I am in sales and I always go for the new sale. I was looking to get some opinions on the flow characteristics and overall performance of AFR 210 old heads versus new AFR 195 heads. Will I lose a ton of lower end performance, will I have stalling issues, will I have to wind it up to 7200 Rpms to get it to come to life? This is a street rod. I don't care about losing 3/10 of a second from stop sign to stop sign. Just trying to keep a good pull from 2500 too 3000 Rpms on.

Thank you. I am having a hard time deciding. I don't want to be winding this thing out all the time. If I take it from 525 hp down to 510 hp that's not going to kill me but I want a good pull and snappy throttle response

are you putting these on a 383??? 4. bore or a dart or 400 block with a 4.125 bore??? the 195 and 210 heads use a guide plate supplied by AFR for locating the pushrods---the smaller bore size will hamper the flow of larger valves close to the cylinder wall and the gasket for a chamber will relief area can be thin between bores--------

Thank you Jerry, I have already check that and both options that I am looking at will work for my build, AFR suggest that anyone using the 195 or 210 on a 383 build use a 4.166 std head gasket. The heads that I am looking at are standard GM placement head. I am looking for advice on the the performance difference (if a noticeable difference) between old 210 heads and new 195 heads. Jerry thank you for pointing out thing I should (and have) look at before building a motor. I am really interested in your opinion on airflow/velocity difference between the 2 heads mentioned in my original post.

Just my opinion but, if you're only going to turn it to 3 or 4 grand, go with the least expensive option. You'll never know the difference in the seat.

I run AFR 190 heads on my 383 which made 450 hp on the dyno. I run a smallish CompCams 280 Magnum flat tappet cam which is very street friendly. That is plenty of power for a highboy like mine. A set of 195's would probably give you more low end power than the 210's. If the 210's need a rebuild, I think I would opt for a new set of 195's. My 2 cents worth . . .