350 or 383?? Guru advice needed!!

hey guys, so i bought an 84 4 bolt main 350 sbc for $75. Im not sure if if i should stick with the 350 and build it up, or go for a 383 stroker! My goal is to make about 450hp. Im willing to spend money to do it right, but not dump all my savings into it! I know the 383 will easily make what im lookin for. im lookin for advise from u guru's that have done builds like this before. Would it be more costly to get that 450hp from a 350?? Also how would u build it?? For either engine? Any help is greatly apperciated.

Welcome to the site. I hope I don't come across as a Smart a$$ but this has been beaten to death here recently. Why not start with using the search function, I kind of think the guys here are tired of typing the same thing over and over again on this question.

Just ain't no substitiute for cubic inches. So I say the 383.

Yeah Mikes correct, in fact id go check out the "Roller Rocker?" Thread It's recent and i remember one member posted a complete setup for a stroker in there with all the accessories. Its a good setup.

Welcome to the club

thanks for the advise, im leanin more twards doin the stroker, but if i do there is soooo much more potential and i know im goin to go wayyy over what i want to spend!!

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Originally Posted by crazy350

thanks for the advise, im leanin more twards doin the stroker, but if i do there is soooo much more potential and i know im goin to go wayyy over what i want to spend!!

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Don't we all

Welcome to CHR

As mentioned – we thrash this topic often. You didn’t say what you are planning to use this engine in. It makes a differences i.e., a ’32 Ford coupe or a ’76 ¾ ton 4x4? If you’re looking for torque to come on low and strong, a 383 may be a good bet. If you want to have 400+ horsepower for your boulevard cruiser, the 350 may be a good fit.

First and foremost - find a good machine shop where you can talk to the person that will be doing the work.

Since you purchased a re-buildable engine for next to nothing, you’ve got lots of options! If you would like to stay with iron heads, I’d opt for L31 Vortecs, casting number 12558062 or 10239906. They were used on '96-'99 Chevy trucks with the L31 5700 Vortec engine and are readily available in wrecking yards and on Craigslist / eBay (make sure they’re genuine GM heads – not knock offs!). These heads use rail rockers, so get the rockers with them if you can. These are some of the best flowing production heads that Chevy ever made. A good machine shop will be able to pin the studs, install new seals, and perform a 5-angle valve job. You can buy Comp Cams drop-in beehive valve springs and retainers that complement your cam and you have a great set of heads for well under a grand.

A good cam would be Comp Cams part 12-246-3. This is a flat tappet cam so you’ll need to pay attention to break-in, but it’s a proven performer that won’t break the bank and will give you great performance on the street with a lot of mid-range snap. It will have a bit of a lope but not to the extent that your friends will wonder if you have a flatulating elephant under the hood.

If you want to go aftermarket heads, there’s a virtual plethora of choices and several here will chime in with AFT, Brodix, etc recommendations.

I like the Edelbrock Performer RPM Vortec #7116 or Performer RPM Air Gap Vortec #7516 intake manifold. These are Vortec specific manifolds that require a square bore (Holley or Edelbrock) carburetor. Stay with a 600 -650CFM carburetor.

The Vortec heads are 64cc. Use a piston that gives you a static compression ratio between 9.6:1 - 9.8:1. Work with your machinist here. KB (and others) has an offset dish type piston in a D-cup configuration that provides a nice crown to complement the Vortec head configuration. Ask your machinist to cut the block decks to 9.001" for a zero piston deck height and use a 0.039" or 0.040" compressed head gasket. This should allow you to run premium pump gas without detonation – but be prepared to need some octane booster depending on the quality of your local petrol supply.

Buy some Hooker 1 5/8" long tube, equal length headers that fit the car and route through Flowmaster 40 series mufflers – I really like ceramic coated for looks, longevity and heat dissipation.

In addition to the above – make sure you get a good new oil pump with a welded or otherwise firmly affixed pickup. Miloden kit with pan, windage tray, bolts, one piece gasket, pump, and pickup is a good investment. Go with a stock 5 quart pan – resist the temptation to go with a deep pan unless you know you’ll have lots of ground clearance.

New lifters – Comp Cams, new timing set – double roller from Summit is fine, new HEI distributor, new water pump, and good gasket set like Felpro.

Others will add their two cents – this is what came off the top of my head.

Again – welcome to CHR
Glenn

glen, thank you! exactly what i was lookin for, i was doin a little research and put something together, thought id post it and get advise if i go for the 383

pistons im thinkin Hypereutectic no valve reliefs with 12cc dishes, heads im lookin at world products 220 64cc(would cast or aluminum be better), intake prolly rpm air gap and cam kit parts k08-443-8 from summit(xr294hr with 242/248 duration at .050, .540/.562in lift with 1.52:1 roller rockers at 110 degrees of lobe sep. also 5.7 rods. i have assembled high powered engines before, but have not planned it all out like this so im hopin i can do this right. everything else(oil pump, ignition ect...) im not going cheap! as of now if this all looks good and works, im thinkin im about $2 to $3k over budget, which really isnt a bad thing. im thinkin about $7-$8k total start to finish

im hopin compression ratio sticks right around 10.0:1, and pump gas is a must!! octane booster is fine, racing fuel is out of the question!!

any comments or suggestions greatly appreciated! also as far as vehicle, im thinkin camaro with 700r4 and either 3.73 or 4.10 rear end. i dont really care about hookin up, just want to smoke thru every gear!! :)

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Originally Posted by crazy350

glen, thank you! exactly what i was lookin for, i was doin a little research and put something together, thought id post it and get advise if i go for the 383

pistons im thinkin Hypereutectic no valve reliefs with 12cc dishes, heads im lookin at world products 220 64cc(would cast or aluminum be better), intake prolly rpm air gap and cam kit parts k08-443-8 from summit(xr294hr with 242/248 duration at .050, .540/.562in lift with 1.52:1 roller rockers at 110 degrees of lobe sep. also 5.7 rods. i have assembled high powered engines before, but have not planned it all out like this so im hopin i can do this right. everything else(oil pump, ignition ect...) im not going cheap! as of now if this all looks good and works, im thinkin im about $2 to $3k over budget, which really isnt a bad thing. im thinkin about $7-$8k total start to finish

im hopin compression ratio sticks right around 10.0:1, and pump gas is a must!! octane booster is fine, racing fuel is out of the question!!

any comments or suggestions greatly appreciated! also as far as vehicle, im thinkin camaro with 700r4 and either 3.73 or 4.10 rear end. i dont really care about hookin up, just want to smoke thru every gear!! :)

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head runner s are abit to big has will as the @ 050 on the cam for mild 400 hp if you throwing money around i have a new dart SHP block 4140 crank and 6 long I scat rods and mahle power pack 400 short block all work done and can get new 215 dart pro 1 alum heads you will be past 400hp EZ

With my own regrets..............given the budget,maybe LT or LS should be considered with a cam swap and some minor head work.

my truck has the 4.8 v8 and it will run rings around a 350 tbi or vtec

Good call on going first class on the oiling system and other internals. I agree with 10:1 being the upper limit on pump gas. Also agree with Pat that runners are a bit long and you may sacrifice a bit of performance at lower RPMs..

With $7-8K to spend, I'd talk real turkey to Pat McCarthy and have him build you a monster motor. He's the best of the best - seriously - look at his pictures. Runs a machine shop where you can eat off the floor and has built a lot of proven combinations for a lot of years. Might even save a few bucks to put elsewhere in the car!

Regards,
Glenn

388ci small-block with flat-tappet hydraulic cam = 523 H.P Build Ha-Ha ;)

Small-Block Horsepower for little money - Chevy High Performance Magazine

Great article Tango - I'd build that motor all day long and for under $3k in top end parts - that's a bargain. Ya gotta love those AFR heads.

Glen-that article was back in 2009.I would think the pricing has gone up since then.Still say the wise money is in hydro roller cams for the profiles and all the other advantages.

so since im goin with the stroker, my origional hp goal of 450 is now bumped up to at least 500. as far as runners bein too big, what changes would you make?? also does the build list look ok for a 10.0:1 compression?? again, what changes should be made if not?? thank you for all your input!!

Bigger runners= torque peaks higher up in the RPM ranges and in some cases shorter torque bands.

Stay miles away from the CHEAP Chinese stroker kits.

Pat is in the business of building engines.Five stars for the advise given.Jerry is also a master engine builder who hasn't posted on this thread yet.

Can't take those fan based articles at face value.Pat or Jerry will give you up to date real street hands on info.Never lose the sight of the magazines main function is to sell you the parts from their advertisers.

Last magazine article that had anything about me was Nov 2011 Super Chevy

so if any of u were to build a 383 stroker keeping compression at 10.0:1 that put oout a min of 500 hp what would your parts list look like?

Check out this website to educate yourself on engine combinations and resulting horsepower and torque.

Ryan's Stroker Combo Page (9-16)

Looks like 93 or 102 is what you need. I like that site Lynn

My 383 is based on #15 with a little more compression. I am more than happy with how it performs and the excellent street manners.

lynn thank you, just what im lookin for! no17 is where i want to be, but it doesnt give specifics like pistons crank, rods, ect...

the 383 is ok way to go but here is were the SHP dart block shines over stock GM blocks starting with a4.125 bore block now what ever head you put on the engine is going to work so much better then the 4.030 bore 350 and the SHP block not going to step out under power like the stock block may you start steping up in the 240 @ 050 cams in your 383 the bottom ends going to be abit soft less your going with a 3500+.stall and some gear will not be fun in town at lower RPM

I'm sorry but I'm not even going to look at any combos using stock blocks unless it is an restoration, or possibly a LT1 or LT4 where there aren't any better blocks available. The Dart SHP is the way to go for a small block as it can be had and built with 4.125---there by not using up the cylinder walls rebuild reserve--they come as 4 bolt mains----finish hone to size for the pistons you chose and check clearances--

If its for an LT1/4 car--we build them up with core blocks we source and install billet splayed 4 bolt main caps, align bore/hone mains, deck with BHJ , index bore and torque plate hone with Sunnen CK 10--
We also have pretty much gotten away from cast cranks after some recent ones were heat treated so hard that we couldn't drill them for balancing--

You can get a good 383 stroker kit for around $1,000 plus the machining and to have the motor assembled. I have had both engnies and for the price the 383 is well worth the price !

as a engine machine shop owner and a seller of new and used parts i have a hard time buying he getting any thing that going to take 500+hp with machine work block and forged parts for a $1000. not pushing my stuff ? but my SHP 400 short block kit is the best bang for the buck

Just like Pat is telling you.There are Reasons why there is a market for the aftermarket blocks.It all hinged on the OEM stuff and it's short comings.It's not excessive to purchase one of those either.So the logic it's more than "I" need doesn't hold true.Overall it is just a better pc.

More than 450 hp is generally the point where you should seriously consider an aftermarket block and forged components. There seems to be some magic associated with 500 hp for some reason because it is what so many people shoot for as the ideal number. Bragging rights, perhaps? Actually, 400-450 hp are very good numbers for a street machine and will provide excellent performance without all the extra cost associated with that magic number "500."

500 hp is EZ and round number .i build engine so many walk threw my door saying i want 500 hp . i have small blocks with stock block making more hp with blowers on them not the best setup were after market block is the way to go were if you build a engine mild lets say mid 400 hp with all stock stuff this will work them he runs out and buys 250 hp in a bottle most know what will happen sooner then latter so 500 hp just seams a ez number to worry about from my stand point there is dreamers that do not know what 500Hp is. but i have customer running past 850 +off the NOs them guys know what it takes

Lynn-For the better cooling,thicker decks,better webbing,thicker walls that don't move around and thus reliable consistent leakdown testing,etc,and really considering all that for not that much more money,it is certainly money well spent.I promise you Lynn we have run afew of these and the OEM stuff just doesn't compare.I'd almost go out on a limb and say if you had the same internal components in a OEM block and a aftermarket block,the aftermarket one would out perform.