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I am considering beefing up my 350 sbc ('78) in my '34 Ford Tudor and not really certain where to start. I have a mild cam and an currently running a 4BBL Edelbrock. Any suggestions from more experienced builders as what to start looking at? Where to go for specifics? Which inline blower to use for a street driven rod and which carb to best mate it to. Not looking to run 12 sec quarters, but would like to leave the corvette next to me behind (or at least the Saab).....:D
i done some blower sbc and some bbc to get only 12 s out of your sbc you may have to hook a chain up and drag that saab and vette side ways down the track ok maybe just the saab. for street use i like the AFBs carbs they will work very good .if you want to throw alot of money at carbs them BG or holleys with boost referencing .for blower .The blower shop blowers or BDS there many more to. there some things i like to do on a blower engine build up .but i have also seen blower bolted on top of re cam stock 350 but they just do not last very long:D
One of these along with a newer OD transmission and a better final gear ratio makes a lot more sense then spending a lot of bucks trying to fix up a 30+ year old 350 to to run (possibly unreliably) with a car that already has one of these under the hood - from the factory:
http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/Pa...l.jsp?engine=2
Aftermarket superchargers/blowers are not always the best choice.
well yes IC2 but he said he wanted a blower i built a 454 15 years ago that seen over 50000 +miles on it
Thanks! The 350 I have is still strong and has many miles more to go before I replace it. Plus, I've always liked the looks and handling of a blower addition.Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
Any specific part numbers to look at?
Bart
well there no parts numbers i can give you .there is blower size and ever one has there own kit number .your will have to comeup with what size your going to use like a 250 or a 671 that about as big has you could go on a small block and boost you would not need the 671 to make good power there is smaller blowers go on line look up THE BLOWER SHOP i just had them rebuild a 14 71
a 4:71 would give you the looks and power----the 6:71 is longer and would crowd the dist on a sbc. The 4:71 also is long enough to set over all the intake ports equally) I think) With a 4 71 you can run a 2 inch belt also helping space
you can check out some 6:71 in my gallery
I guess guys (Pat??) that the questions the OP has asked has told me that he wants something he can bolt on, get in the car and drive away simply due to the fact he has never done that mod. The reason that I suggested a later bolt in engine is to take away those unknowns - which you already passed by a long time ago - simply because you went through a major learning curve over the years and now, it's basically flat. For myself, I would never attempt a blower/supercharger installation without a heluva lot of research - books first, then ask aftermarket suppliers about their products and last before I took the $$$$ plunge, talk to others locally and at shows. There's a lot more to these then changing an intake manifold. But then it's his decision and how he wants to spend his dollars:D:D
Well Dave --there's only a couple things, however, with the new engines there are hundreds of things to do----first for the old school blower---Manifold, blower, drive, carbs,decent fuel supply and use exhaust and mounts he already has
For the new engines---high pressure, very complicated fuel system, new mounts,exhaust, accessory drives, computer(and 130 wires) sensors plus for a blower upscale map sensor to 2 or 3 bar, new curves for mas, relocate iat, intercooler, bigger injectors, licenses for retuning ecm, etc, etc, etc, etc
Jerry - I guess you didn't read my first post and look at the attached link. First of all, I suggested a newer SB GM crate motor instead of using the existing 32 year old 350. Now, that could be anything from a 350 to a 383. I happened to link to the LS and that's 327 to 427 ci.. Now 130 wires? No problem. See this link: http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/Pa...roller_Kit.jsp. There is your wiring plus your controller (computer). I DID NOT suggest that a supercharger/blower be added to an LS. I also suggested that it was a viable alternative. Now since you bring the subject up, should we then discuss fuel pumps, carbs, fuel return lines, compression ratio/head design, blower drive ratios for the street. Why not discuss crank shafts and the potential for bent snouts, 2 bolt vs 4 bolt, cast vs forged (crank and/or pistons) then of course, camshafts, restrictive exhausts, distributors (and their set up) that may or may not fit under a chosen blower - and from the gist of opening question, the OP is a neophyte with superchargers/blowers. And so am I as noted above.
You and Pat have done this many times - it's no big deal for you, but the new guy.....big investment in $$$, time and effort. If it's done wrong, major disappointment. You've done this to your fun/hobby car and the dam' thing wont run right if at all. Put yourself in the new guys shoes and think his way
Dave sorry to have seemed to p you off-----
OK tho, do you want to discuss these items for a street car or a race car????to me a race car is where you want to as fast and quick as you can, not a dial in or index----
And a higher performance street car that you occasionally take to the track to see how quick/fast it is must still have street handling manners----
I am ready to respond to any item you want to discuss/compare and I believe that my experience with racing, street cars and machining/building engines won't take a back seat to anyone
I am now going to read the gm perfornance link you posted and see if there is any thing relavant to this topic
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
Jerry - It takes more then a long distance discussion to p!$$ me off. There has only been one here that's been able to do that so far - :LOL::LOL:
Glad he lives closer to you than me!!!
I really didn't want to start a war here, but one VERY important fact has been reinforced here... before I decide to make this type of investment, there is much, much more I need to know!
My purpose was just that, to learn where I should start, what I needed to know before making this change and, for that matter, if it can be easily done or not.
All of the comments I've read so far have been extremely helpful, as well as the suggestion to consider an engine upgrade, with/without blower, as a possibly "easier" choice with better potential.
I guess the bottom line is that, being a "newbie" to this hobby, I want a combination of performance and looks, but I now realize that my skill/experience level is not such that I can possibly look at all of the factors involved and fully understand all my choices at this time.
Any additional comments will be helpful as I explore this topic... though I wish it was as easy as "buy part # xxx from YYY, bolt it on & go"... but it's not.
Bart
Nahhhhh Bart. No war, just some of us folks with strong opinions that sometimes go off on tangents. Done it before, probably gonna do it again:LOL::LOL::LOL:. (maybe even later today)
hey i like sitting in the back:3dSMILE::whacked: the wheels on the bus go round and round :3dSMILE:. as for a blower man he need s a 632 donovan i know some nut job that has one. all i can stay is Sham Wow that damn thing is still very fast . two years that car has not moved fired it right up and the rear break was hung up from stitting.I was thinking it will break loose ? beat that thing like a red headed step child still smiling ear to ear the rear break did not slow it down one bit .first thing on the list to fix come on over jerry let s raise some hell:DQuote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
TY, I wondered what that meant!Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo
A good source of info can be had from the book "A Do It Yourself Guide To Street Supercharging" By Pat Ganahl.This is a book that I used for my very first build of a 6:71 that I had got of a diesel many years ago.It worked for me and shows what it takes to build a street supercharger and what to look for in components etc.
yep you can find a blower rebuild it but the new one is the way to go alot of the used stuff has seen better day and if the case needs work $$ and there getting very hard to find used and then drive kit pulleys .here the one i like for a smaller engine for street use
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Blow by
Ordered from Amazon last week,
"Shipped Delivery Estimate: June 25, 2010 - July 13, 2010"
Sharp looking! What can you tell me about that one?Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
Watch used blower buy new, unless you know the guy. Bought a used low mile 427 blower motor from a guy,thought I got me a hell of deal not :mad:
I have learned alot from this blower motor deal. Just got it back from the machine shop in long block form. The used 671 BDS blower I sent to The blower Shop for a freshin up, didnt need a freshin, it neeeded a major rebuild. For what it was going to cost me to rebuild they sold me a fresh polished rebuild for the same price :eek: If your going to run a blower do it right the first time :D i am running 427, steel crank, scat rods, aries blower pistons,running studed mains and heads, no Oringing though, going to keep it below 10lbs boost, nice sized comp hydraluic cam, rect. port Merlin Heads, 2 750 dp's,vertex mag. Should be quite a handful in the model a :D
Should run good in theory :rolleyes:
guys have put abit of boost thru a bbc with out a O ring deck . i use the a 1017 head gasket for 4.310 bore up to 4.530 or a MLS
Pro53, that combo is pretty close to what I used to run in my T bucket. Made 627 hp at 5800 revs on pump gas. you will have fun with it.
And BTSave, that book you ordered is a good read. It will tell you that you need stronger engine components, a big spark and more fuel, and better cooling. Thats getting close to a new engine really.
I reckon theres no point in building a blower motor with stock rods, crank & pistons because power is addictive and sooner or later (sooner actually) you will want to stand on it.
An option may be to keep your current engine and fit up a more trick intake setup. Either an EFI or a twin 4 manifold with a custom top & 8 carbs? or a moon manifold with 4 webers? They look cool.
bbc do not need much in the bottom end stock rods and a cast crank will take 10 boost nice to have better stuff but they been built this way .i just built a 454 this way for street use he s under 9 pounds of boost .this engine was a low buck build as the 489 i built him was going to rip the car apart. i have a 548 10to1 with about 10 of boost :D blower car s are fun
I was talking to a guy that was testing Turbo Charged Motors at Daytona.
And he said they would only run about 9 to 1 compression.
He said that would determin how much boost they would run.
So how much boost you have will determin your over all
compression ratio? I have never run turbo's but it sure would be fun.
Kurt
That sounds like an interesting approach... at least until I can afford to put in a new (read that as larger) plant. when u mentioned the moon manifold with 4 webers, are u referring to this setup? http://www.carburetion.com/weber/wildv8.aspQuote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rod Todd
With a relatively stock 350 (circa 1978), what do the "experts" feel might be the best choice?
thanks!
B
If you don't have anything and are short of experience it would be very hard not to get a complete motor from this guy.
http://www.bigalstoybox.com/
Consider that you will have about $5k in the blower,carbs , linkage,fuel lines and scoop regardless of who you get it from. Another $5 in a good long block and the rest of the stuff.
If you just want a top kit he can do that too. You will get stuff that will work without a lot of effort.
I did my own but considering that I've done blown applications since the early 60's I knew what I needed. Cost wise I bought new rather than used junk.
The result is a very, very street friendly machine that get livable mileage and simply starts with a single pump of the gas and hit the switch. Idles at 750 and can sit in traffic all day long.
I made 14 laps at back to the 50's and hardly stepped on the gas at all. Each took about 30-45 min. Never got over 205 deg.
Looking at his prices, it is almost better to just get a new engine already set up with the blower!Quote:
Originally Posted by bentwings
"471 Supercharged 355 Chevy Small Block
405 Horsepower, Studded Main 350 Block with Forged 7 1/2 to 1 Compression Blower Pistons, Comp Cams Hydraulic Cam and Lifters, Complete Rotating Assembly Balanced, Double Keyed Iron Crank and Aftermarket Balancer, Roller Rockers, Polished 471 Supercharger with Billet Endplates and Drive, 3” Belt, Funny Car Style Belt Guard, Holley Blower Carb, BDS Scoop, with K&N Filter, Mallory Ignition, Set up, Run and Synchronized.
$7,697.00 Turn/Key #583 "
I sent for his catalogue just now,,, will see price of new carb/ supercharger vs. new 355 sbc...
more once I get the booklet and then call him! Thanks for the lead!
well there alot of guys that can build you a build up and maybe for less money in the bottom end with better parts one guy comes to mind is Jerry Clayton and the other is P.Mc or some thing like that:D a blower now that,s that big alum thing that sits on the intake like this ?:D i not going to say any names but you not getting much for your money cast crank ? rebuilt blower with new end plates ? HYD cam flat lifter cam not a hyd roller ?all for $7697 stock iron heads ? a deal ?
Yea I knew about Big als, going to buy a belt gaurd and a blower spacer, Just for looks :D If I had the cash all at once I would have bought one, hell you even get a 1 year warrenty with it. Time I get my carbs redone and what I have in trying to be a cheap skate, buying used parts that werent no good I could have bought one :LOL: I know my engine builder does not give a one year warrenty on a Hi-po motor.Quote:
Originally Posted by btsave
Since this post has alot of action I have a question, Running BBC, 671, (2) 750DPS HOLLEYS,Ronco magneto. What a good spark plug to start with?
Also I cant fiqure out which pulleys to start with? I want to run around 6lbs of boost?
i cant not help on the mag is i never used one on the street . have a customer that runs them on boats .most of the time i am not a big fan of a much colder plugs for low rpm street use .boost is not a guarantee many things come in to play .the blower how well it seals up and the engine CID as well cr. cam.other things .so you may get close. look at the on line at the BDS pulley chart and start from there most of the time not many will repulley for more boost .. they fined out fast they have waaaaay to much to start with:DQuote:
Originally Posted by PRO53
To do this right, you need to change to a supercharger cam so you do not bleed off boost from overlap. You want a tight lobe center of around 114 degrees. However, the more important question is your present compression ratio. Ideally, a compression around 8.0 or 8.5:1 if you want to use a Roots-style blower. The small 144 blower now available from Holley worked quite nicely on my 350 some years ago. You don't necessarily have to have forged pistons and forged crank with it although these parts would be preferable. I used a 750 Holley with a 50cc accelerator pump which I ran a little on the rich side just to be safe. A lean condition can spell death to a supercharged engine. The only thing I did not like about this combination was due to the 350 TH tranny. I really needed an overdrive tranny for cruising on the interstate. PM me if you have any further questions. I would have used that combination again on my present ride, but when Holley bought out B&M's blower line, they doubled the price. I built a 383 instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by btsave
well there is more then one way to skin a cat . if any one need a good price on a blower P.M me i am dealer for a blower company . i built some blower engines and tuned them in just roots for street:HMMM: and marine use ... machine and built many engine s for blowers:D and turbos and alot of Nos to:3dSMILE: ....MY stuff holds up. can give you a very long list of guys i have work with ...if you need a blower engine and blower and dyno time all set up to Rock and Roll that can be done as well i built many at 9.5 and 10.1 with 110/112 lsa that will rip you F%ucking head off:D