385 fast burn crate engine 350ci

Found this site and i kind of like the hp out of this engine. The 385 fast burn crate engine has a bigger cam than the hot cam and seems to put out 465hp
and 440 tq. http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/1578...ate-Engine.htm The question is what cam is this in the engine what P/n is it. Is it a gm cam or aftermarket cam. What do you think henry will this be my choice of cam it sound good to me but want the pros advice. Will i be able to just slap my cam in the 385 fast burn and 1.6 rockers and be good or will i have to look into springs. what about the lift clearand on the head. Has anyone done this on the fast burn. If i can get some great input on this zz465
this is the way i want to go with my stock 385 fast burn. Thats mor than enough hp for my monte carlo for street and some track...:)

I was looking at the zz465 crate engine which is basicly the same engine as the 385 fast burn,and the zz430, they are the same crate engine but with different cam.
Correct me if im wrong. I have a 1987 monte carlo ss that im going to put this engine in. It will be a streetable not daily driver but some what. Behind this engine i will have a 6sp tranny out of a 96 camaro stock, 4.56 gear. I im looking for that thump rough idle sound but not sure if 465 hp will be good too much hp in the street hope not. I had the 385 running on my mc and i was craving a more chopy sound and some what more hp. But dont know which cam will give me my desires and balance out with the 385 fast burn, well the hot cam p/n 24502586 with the 1.6 rockers will as a slap in. But will the 12370847 I:234 E:242 lift I:539 E:558 1.5 rockers be just as good as the hot as a slap in only. Will it balance out right, and will i turn some heads streetable .

Short answer . . . NO. Max lift on the FB385 is 0.525. If you go to that larger cam, you need to replace the springs, and it would be VERY smart to check the valve-to-piston clearance.

ok valve springs would have to be replaced. the valve springs on the fast burn are the p/n 12551483 = 1.32". if i went with the biger cam p/n 12370847 i would need 1.250" Diameter but i tried to find the spring part number and i cant. can some one help me figure out what springs i need with this cam. i think this is all i need if i were to go to the biger cam 234/230 duration and 539/558 lift.:D

update on the rear gear 3.73 posi with some clucth pack in the middle.

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Originally Posted by junior2

ok valve springs would have to be replaced. the valve springs on the fast burn are the p/n 12551483 = 1.32". if i went with the biger cam p/n 12370847 i would need 1.250" Diameter but i tried to find the spring part number and i cant. can some one help me figure out what springs i need with this cam. i think this is all i need if i were to go to the biger cam 234/230 duration and 539/558 lift.:D

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Call Scoggin-Dickey Chevrolet.

has anyone heared of a 4/7 swap on the cam?

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Originally Posted by junior2

has anyone heared of a 4/7 swap on the cam?

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I know of a few running. Not always better for power but never a loss of power. Most say it's a lot smoother running. When I change to hydraulic roller in my 420cid Camaro, I will use a custom one.

thanks DennyW. im all confused ithought i had my application set for my engine. but noe its seems i have to do some mods on the heads to be able to use the 234/242 duration and the 539/558 lift with the 1.6 rockers puting me at 595 or lift??? :( i dont want to do this to my heads but i do want that 465hp 430tq.

unless i do the 4/7 swap on the cam with the 1.5 rockers and same springs i currently have on the 385 this should give me about what 20 hp or so .
ok lets say i do put the 539/558 lift with the 1.5 rockers will i still be at 465hp
and 410tq with out the 1.6 rockers ????

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Originally Posted by junior2

has anyone heared of a 4/7 swap on the cam?

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I am currently running the 4/7 swap cam. Smoothest engine I have ever run to 7000 rpm. I accelerate at 1/4 throttle just for the fun of it and shift at 5-6000 rpm. What a hoot. This engine seems to have endless happiness for revs.

Hehehe, here is something I have been considering for a while,... taking my ride to a performance shop and telling them to change the f’in spark plugs. Haaaaha.

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unless i do the 4/7 swap on the cam with the 1.5 rockers and same springs i currently have on the 385 this should give me about what 20 hp or so.

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I have no idea where you're going with this line of thought.

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ok lets say i do put the 539/558 lift with the 1.5 rockers will i still be at 465hp and 410tq with out the 1.6 rockers ????

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No. With that cam, you're over max lift for your heads even with the 1.5 rockers. Max lift is 0.525. Anything over that needs new springs and valve-to-piston clearance check.

Junior, you're overthinking the problem. Here are the options in a nutshell:

Stock cam: You can put 1.6 rockers on the intake, but not the exhaust. Minor HP gain.

Hot Cam: You can put 1.6 rockers on the intake and exhaust. That turns it into a ZZ430 clone. About 40-45 HP gain over stock.

12370847 Cam: Will not work on stock heads. About 80 HP gain over stock.

I think the biggest cam is too radical for the street, and you're putting way too much emphasis on the lumpy idle.

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Originally Posted by DennyW

You can only put 5lbs in a 5lb bag, unless you expand the bag. :LOL:

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Aren't those bags called "GLAD"?

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Originally Posted by DennyW

Your thinking the Hefty bags. The one they drive the semi into. :LOL: :LOL:

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:LOL: I haven't seen that commercial, but up here in this one commercial, the movers drop a piano and so they pack a broken grand piano into the bag and carry it up a flight of stairs, and the bag doesn't break!
So is there such a cam manufacturer named, Glad Cams? :LOL: :LOL: I can just see their slogan, "always gets you to the curb":LOL: :LOL:

Funny bag stories.


Junior, again, a custom cam co. can build what you want and it will match everything on your car and your plans with the car. They can set you up with the correct, matching everything to take all the hassle out of it.

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

I have no idea where you're going with this line of thought.
No. With that cam, you're over max lift for your heads even with the 1.5 rockers. Max lift is 0.525. Anything over that needs new springs and valve-to-piston clearance check.

Junior, you're overthinking the problem. Here are the options in a nutshell:

Stock cam: You can put 1.6 rockers on the intake, but not the exhaust. Minor HP gain.

Hot Cam: You can put 1.6 rockers on the intake and exhaust. That turns it into a ZZ430 clone. About 40-45 HP gain over stock.

12370847 Cam: Will not work on stock heads. About 80 HP gain over stock.

I think the biggest cam is too radical for the street, and you're putting way too much emphasis on the lumpy idle.

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12370847 Cam: Will not work on stock heads? this cam will work of course
with a new set of springs. im not trying to contradict what your saying henry.
your right on the stock cam and the hot cam i can only go to 525 lift with the 1.6 rockers.that being said its doesnt mean the fast burn heads cant take over the .525 lift. because it can with a new set of springs and some grinding on the heads to clear according to Scoggin Dickey. the ZZ465HP they are selling has this cam and fast burn heads on it. the only thing that they did to the heads was grind the heads to fit a Valve Springs 1.250" Diameter with the Rocker Arms 1.6:1 Ratio, Roller Rockers. my question is once this is done to the heads on the i asume the valve quides. will i be able to down grade down the road if i were wanting to put a hot cam and the 1.6 rockers????. i am in anyway saying that i know more than you guys cause i dont. so hope noone is getting offended i have no intentions of doing so.
just would like some advice and right quidence by the pros

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Originally Posted by junior2

12370847 Cam: Will not work on stock heads? this cam will work of course
with a new set of springs. im not trying to contradict what your saying henry.
your right on the stock cam and the hot cam i can only go to 525 lift with the 1.6 rockers.that being said its doesnt mean the fast burn heads cant take over the .525 lift. because it can with a new set of springs and some grinding on the heads to clear according to Scoggin Dickey. the ZZ465HP they are selling has this cam and fast burn heads on it. the only thing that they did to the heads was grind the heads to fit a Valve Springs 1.250" Diameter with the Rocker Arms 1.6:1 Ratio, Roller Rockers. my question is once this is done to the heads on the i asume the valve quides. will i be able to down grade down the road if i were wanting to put a hot cam and the 1.6 rockers????. i am in anyway saying that i know more than you guys cause i dont. so hope noone is getting offended i have no intentions of doing so.
just would like some advice and right quidence by the pros

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You could always sell your heads and go Dart,AFR,Brodix etc.

i want to stick with gm parts. i just want to get the most hp out of it if i can.
but i want to stay under 500hp. i just want some one to understand what im
planning on doing so that if something doesnt seem like its going to clear that they would warn me,and advice me to do diffrent. i know im hard headed too.

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12370847 Cam: Will not work on stock heads? this cam will work of course with a new set of springs.

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What I posted is correct. If you replace the springs, they aren't stock heads.

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will i be able to down grade down the road if i were wanting to put a hot cam and the 1.6 rockers

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Of course.

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Originally Posted by junior2

i want to stick with gm parts. i just want to get the most hp out of it if i can.
but i want to stay under 500hp. i just want some one to understand what im
planning on doing so that if something doesnt seem like its going to clear that they would warn me,and advice me to do diffrent. i know im hard headed too.

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Can you make 450 hp with the GM heads sure can.
After a certain point and time and everyone has their own opinions on this it becomes much easier with aftermarket heads to build hp.
For my customers that number is in the 450 area.
With the cams you are looking at I doubt you will find hp by doing the 4-7 swap.
We have found hp gains doind the 4-7 swap when the cam duration is above 250 or more or at .050.
Keep in mind these where also full on race engines.

whats the maximuim lift that will not affect vacum brake booster???

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Originally Posted by junior2

whats the maximuim lift that will not affect vacum brake booster???

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You can always buy a vacumm reservoir.
I doubt you will need it.
I say try and if they are hard to push then look into buying one.
Thet are about $75.
There are a lot of variables that will affect this it is a very difficult question to answer.

so if i were to get a lift of 0.575" / 0.595 and a duration of 0.234° / 0.242°.
i should be ok running air condition and vacum brake booster with no problems? or will i have problems on brakeing

No problems isn't quite the answer I'd give. Buying the biggest cam you can find usually causes sacrifices elsewhere. Here are the specs on a virtually identical cam from Crane:

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ROUGH IDLE, PERFORMANCE USAGE, GOOD MID-RANGE HP, MILD BRACKET RACING, AUTO TRANS W/3000+ CONVERTER, 3800-4600 CRUISE RPM, 10.0 TO 11.5 COMPRESSION RATIO ADVISED. BASIC RPM 3000-6500

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This is not a very streetable cam, so I have no doubt you will have vacuum problems with it. However the fix isn't difficult. This engine is going to be a bear to drive on the street, but if that's what you want - go for it.

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Originally Posted by junior2

so if i were to get a lift of 0.575" / 0.595 and a duration of 0.234° / 0.242°.
i should be ok running air condition and vacum brake booster with no problems? or will i have problems on brakeing

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Take 10 * of both the intake and exhaust side at .050 so say 224/232 run a 3,500 stall and a 4.10 gear that way you will be safe with power brakes.

Erik,

He says he has a 6-speed and 4.56 gears.

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Erik,

He says he has a 6-speed and 4.56 gears.

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I am really having a bad day.
On post number 45 he says 3.73.
I give up!!!:whacked: **)

I think all the information that can be provided has been provided. Good luck on the build.

yes i did update on the gear it will be a 373.i know im frustating you guys with too many questions. but i do appreciate your help thats for sure. i am no pro in combos nor will i ever be lol. i am just a parts replacer with the correct info i can but anything together but with the help of pros like you.
i feel that no one can accomplish so much by himeslf, unless he has torn that puppy down several times to get it right.if you have on the first shot and with no ones help then good for you. i know i cant so im sorry to fustrate you guys.and i will be using a 6spd tranny the only thing i changed was the gear. i thought it was a 4:56 i was wrong after swaping it out last week.its been a while since ive toyed around with my old monte carlo.

Junior,

What we've been trying to say is that first time builders think the way to go is to find the biggest cam they can fit. Often that doesn't give the best horsepower in the range you want to drive. A fairly heavy car on the street that only pulls hard from 3500 - 7000 RPM isn't much fun to drive and it eats gas. You get the lumpy idle, but you can't get away from the light as fast as one of our little rice-burner friends. If you try to get "up on the cam" you just fry the tires.

My advice would be to use the FB engine with the Hot Cam. You'll have excellent performance with reasonable street manners. Think about the early muscle cars. Very few of them could compete with a 440 HP engine.

Again, I'm not bagging on your choice. It's just that I've been there and done that - and so have a lot of my friends.

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Junior,

What we've been trying to say is that first time builders think the way to go is to find the biggest cam they can fit. Often that doesn't give the best horsepower in the range you want to drive. A fairly heavy car on the street that only pulls hard from 3500 - 7000 RPM isn't much fun to drive and it eats gas. You get the lumpy idle, but you can't get away from the light as fast as one of our little rice-burner friends. If you try to get "up on the cam" you just fry the tires.

My advice would be to use the FB engine with the Hot Cam. You'll have excellent performance with reasonable street manners. Think about the early muscle cars. Very few of them could compete with a 440 HP engine.

Again, I'm not bagging on your choice. It's just that I've been there and done that - and so have a lot of my friends.

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If he does install a larger cam he may be able to "hook-up" the car better because he has moved the torque band up the rpm scale.
With his manual tranny this might work better.:)

Good catch. I just think a .600 lift / 300+ deg cam in a Monte on the street is going to be "interesting" to drive.

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Originally Posted by erik erikson

If he does install a larger cam he may be able to "hook-up" the car better because he has moved the torque band up the rpm scale.
With his manual tranny this might work better.:)

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[QUOTE=Henry Rifle ]Good catch. I just think a .600 lift / 300+ deg cam in a Monte on the street is going to be "interesting" to drive.

ok guys your brains have all the calculations in mind with these two responses. im very slow but when you elaborate a little more ill catch up quick. you wont even know if its the sam idiot that was asking the questions.
ok guys im going to refresh my brain, and refresh your brain with what i have.
and give you two options that im looking at nothing else.this is what i got. which one would the pros choose?
what would HENRY RIFLE AND ERIK ERIKSON choose for there street toy (daily driver)some what daily driver.
put it this way if your other car broke down would this be your back up for the week.

385 create engine 385hp/385tq
1987 montecarlo ss weight 3600-pound
3:73 rear gear / with a 6spd out of a camaro

what im looking at are two cams
hot cam durration I: 2 18 E : 2 28 lift I: 5 25 E : 5 25/w "1.6 Rocker" 112

other cam
12370847 = durration I: 2 34 E : 2 4 2 lift I: 539" E : 558"/w1.5 rockers 112
please read carefully i want to add the 1.6 rockers to this cam which will give me a higher lift
being max lift with 1.6 rockers added instead of 1.5 rockers will be 0.575" / 0.595 (w/1.6 ratio rocker

which out of these two are yall recomending because i got confused on the (.600 lift / 300+ deg cam) stated by henry.. thanks guys for putting up with me

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Good catch. I just think a .600 lift / 300+ deg cam in a Monte on the street is going to be "interesting" to drive.

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intresting meaning to much for what i want. or intresting as in bad boy in the streets but cant be streetable?**) im spining my little brain here lol

I would do the hot cam with the FB385, 1.6 rockers. "Interesting" ( with respect to the big cam) means I wouldn't want to drive it regularly on the street.

thanks henry i respect your choice. i have never had anything obove 400hp on the street so i dont really know what it feels like. i ran the 385 with a 350 tranny and a regular torque convertor and 3:73 gear and it felt really good.
havent ran a 6spd tranny at all on the street on the mc. ive droven stick but not with 385hp. so at this point any info is very appreciated. im in no hurry to jump into something i wont like but i do want to be able to out run my oponent in the street if it came to it. i am going to start building the engine
hopefully in feb.there wont be much to do to it other than the heads and cam. and assemble together. and depending on the cam i might do a jr intake?
questionable at this point.my decission is in the hands of the pros. now i wait for ERIK ERIKSON choice. i will take both in consideration. its going to be a hard choice for me unless it comes down to one cam. thanks guys :D

[QUOTE=junior2]

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Good catch. I just think a .600 lift / 300+ deg cam in a Monte on the street is going to be "interesting" to drive.

ok guys your brains have all the calculations in mind with these two responses. im very slow but when you elaborate a little more ill catch up quick. you wont even know if its the sam idiot that was asking the questions.
ok guys im going to refresh my brain, and refresh your brain with what i have.
and give you two options that im looking at nothing else.this is what i got. which one would the pros choose?
what would HENRY RIFLE AND ERIK ERIKSON choose for there street toy (daily driver)some what daily driver.
put it this way if your other car broke down would this be your back up for the week.

385 create engine 385hp/385tq
1987 montecarlo ss weight 3600-pound
3:73 rear gear / with a 6spd out of a camaro

what im looking at are two cams
hot cam durration I: 2 18 E : 2 28 lift I: 5 25 E : 5 25/w "1.6 Rocker" 112

other cam
12370847 = durration I: 2 34 E : 2 4 2 lift I: 539" E : 558"/w1.5 rockers 112
please read carefully i want to add the 1.6 rockers to this cam which will give me a higher lift
being max lift with 1.6 rockers added instead of 1.5 rockers will be 0.575" / 0.595 (w/1.6 ratio rocker

which out of these two are yall recomending because i got confused on the (.600 lift / 300+ deg cam) stated by henry.. thanks guys for putting up with me

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You remind me of myself about 15+ years ago.
It is very difficult to put "daily driver" and "street toy" together in the same sentence.
I do this for a living so it makes it even worse for me.
I think the second cam is to large to think you might have to drive for a week.
Also your gear ratio really is a little weak for the cam, in other you need a 4.10 or more gear to make it work correctly.
I would go with the smaller cam in your combo.
With the smaller cam everything sould work together very well.

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and depending on the cam i might do a jr intake?

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Junior,

If you're referencing the Edelbrock Victor Jr there, I'd re-think that one also. That manifold works from 3500 RPM up - a mismatch unless you're going with the big cam. With the FB385 and the Hot Cam, the Performer RPM Air Gap is a better fit.

Remember that an engine (and in a larger sense the whole car) is a system - not just a collection of parts. They need to fit together, or they start working against each other.

Henry is right,a motor that runs well is built for a purpose and all of the parts go together for that purpose.A massive carb on a stock engine ....performance goes down,high rpm manifold{single plane} on a stock motor...performance goes down.Huge cam ,stock motor performance goes down.......now take those parts and use the proper heads and short block ,with the proper gearing,etc..and you have a good motor.

High rpm and big cam durations are for the track or some one who likes to fiddle with the engine ALL the time,if you want the car to pull hard and be fun to drive on the street and idle,leave the big cams and the high rpm intakes on the shelf.Compression ratio and head flow make horsepower,the rest of the parts have to match those 2 figures.

Take what you have now ,find the compression ratio and head flow numbers and let that tell you what cam you need,then you take the cam spec,which tells you the operating range or rpm range and dynamic compression and then select a intake that matches those specs.Then use max rpm and cubic inches to figure size of carb,since you are building a street ride,you should use a vac secondary carb.

If that seems like alot to figure, then do exactly what henry said and get the hot cam ,any larger of a cam and the rpm that the motor starts to pull at goes up.{example} From a dead stop the smaller cam pulls harder and sooner in the rpm range of 1000 rpm to 6000 rpm,the smaller cam will pull hard from about 1500-2000 rpm up,the large cam will not start to pull until well above 3800-4200 rpm.That gives you 4500 rpm of pull before you have to shift with the small cam and about 2000 rpm of pull before you have to shift with the big cam.
Soo what does this all mean...?
It means the motor with the small cam will pull away from the same motor with the big cam off the line and the big cam motor will have to play catch up when it hits about 3800 and starts to pull,meanwhile the motor with the small cam is starting to lose some power to the big cam as the rpm approches 6000 .Keep in mind the small cam motor will achieve this rpm faster since it starts pulling sooner in the rpm range and therefore reaches max rpm faster than a big cam motor,Repeat for second gear and by this time you are well above any posted speed limit and will have to or need to shut it down.
The track only deal is alot different story,this is where you can use high rpms and a big cam by taking advantage of a large stall speed or manual tranny and big gears 4.88 or larger to keep the motor in its rpm band of 4000 to 6000 and now with the matching parts the big cam starts to show its stuff and get with it,while the motor with the small gears 3.73 and smaller cam,will show its weakness of small rear gear and lower rpm range in this high rpm enviroment,but will be way way better on the street than the big gear big cam motor.

This is not the only way to look at it and there are definatly exceptions to any rule ,but this should help you better understand the technical advice you are recieving and how motors and parts are working in unison to accomplish the same goal by being built for the same purpose.You just cant bolt on a nascar intake and be the fastest ......the rest of the parts have to match or...... you have done the opposite of what you bought the intake for ,which was more power.Same thing with the rest of the parts they need to match existing parts or they will do you no good at all ,infact they will actually lower current performance.

thanks guys for the info. i have a friend that has a trans am running 550hp at flywheel. its 85hp more than what i want and his car is streetable.its a daily driver to his job.man this car has no traction without the slicks. he took me for a test run just around the block and its very fast.here is a link to a camaro running the 12370847 cam in it. its sounds good but i think his exhaust seem to be to small. i dont know camaros always sound funny at the tail pipes.here is the link http://www.madz28.com/chris847.mpg . does anyone have a sound clip of the hot cam. and at what hp?