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Thread: New 496 wont run??
          
   
   

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  1. #61
    34_40's Avatar
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    Perhaps this will help? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhrlN59BA_s

    I don't agree with his "final solution" with bumping the motor over to get the dizzy to drop in. But that isn't where we are right now. At least review it and maybe it'll help.
    36 sedan likes this.

  2. #62
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Here's something I wrote up a long time ago to help on distributor placement and getting it ready to fire.


    Walk the dog with it...

    ps: Here you go. Since you have already had the distributor out, I won't detail that part. Maybe this will help you get it ok.

    You can drop the distributor in at any point. Remove distributor cap, and you are ready to start the walk. On a Chevy type, once you get it seated in the manifold, at what ever place it will seat all the way down, that is the starting point. You will more than likely be off. Does not matter at this point. Just make sure you have the No. 1 cylinder at top dead center, AND, on the compression stroke, with the timing mark at zero, or the set timing you want to run. 8º for example. What you do is use both hands, pickup on the housing with one hand slightly, and with the other hand on the rotor, feel for when you can move the rotor just enough to clear the cam gear one tooth. That means it's just above the cam gear, and turn it so it just slips over to the tooth of the cam gear, set it back down with a little wiggle, and it will move the oil pump rod at the same time. Keep doing this one tooth at a time until you reach your marked spot. I call it gear walking, or walking the dog.
    Once you reach the No. 1 spot, you simply use a Philips screw driver, and place it in the plug wire end, and lay it so it is about 1/4" from the block.
    Now turn the ignition switch to the run position, and of course, do not crank it. Now you can move the distributor in the retard direction, and then advance it just until you see it spark at the plug wire end. Do this a couple times to make sure it repeats. Now, snug the distributor bolt so it does not move.
    You are now ready to fire it up.


    Hope this helps...

  3. #63
    cffisher's Avatar
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    Denny you can't make it any simpler than that. Been doing it that way for over 50 years
    DennyW and glennsexton like this.
    Charlie
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  4. #64
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by cffisher View Post
    Denny you can't make it any simpler than that. Been doing it that way for over 50 years
    Same here. Learned that early, hated the fire in the carb, or belching thing going on.
    cffisher and Driver50x like this.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennyW View Post
    Same here. Learned that early, hated the fire in the carb, or belching thing going on.
    Yup - works good. Note to self, do not get between the screwdriver and any point of ground on the car - ask me how I know this... Yikes - it'll give you a good wake up jolt. Not to get too far off, but years ago, I thought I'd help a friend time his Triumph motorcycle - I mean how hard could it be to hook up my chrome plated Sears timing light to the #1 and give it a go. Well those old bikes were positive ground and when I squeezed the trigger I felt the furry of the coil down to my toes.
    "Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty." John Basil Barnhil

  6. #66
    36 sedan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennsexton View Post
    I felt the furry of the coil down to my toes.
    LOL!!! Been there done that!
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  7. #67
    Camaro350 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Ok so I did go and get a spark tester and with it installed and just turning the distributor I had it light up. I got in contact with the engine company to find out my plug gaps and timing again. They told me the plug gaps should be .35, the new ones I got were not that gap they were much smaller. So I gapped them all to .35. They also told me the timing should be 12 initial and 36 total.

    So with all the plugs out I put a little bit of oil down all the cylinders in case of wash down, I then pulled bank 1's valve cover off and watched the intake valve one cylinder one open and close and then set the crank pully on 0 degree's. Looked at my rotor and it was pretty much pointing to number one cylinder. I marked the housing for the rotor location and put the cap on and put number one at the mark on the dist. I cranked the motor over a few times to let the oil in the cylinders move around, put all the plugs back in, and exchanged the oil.

    I pulled the carb off and went through it I set both primary and secondary throttle plates so you can just barely start to see the idle circuit groove. I exchanged the power valve from a 6.5 to a 3.5 even though everything I read told me that that will not effect idle. I set the idle mixture screws to only 1/2 turn out from stop to start. I re-installed everything and I am going to flush the fuel system and ensure I have fresh fuel in it and attempt to start it this weekend. If you guys can think of anything I might have missed please let me know.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaro350 View Post
    I exchanged the power valve from a 6.5 to a 3.5 even though everything I read told me that that will not effect idle.
    This is true normally, because the power enrichment circuit operates via venturi vacuum (fuel is introduced above throttle blades through the boosters). However there are a couple of exceptions;
    1). If the power valves diaphragm is damaged, it can leak and pull fuel in through the vacuum passages.
    2). The idle stop on the carb is set too high combined with low vacuum, the low vacuum opens the the valve with the throttle blades opened enough to introduce the fuel through the boosters. Usually this condition also activates the transition circuit adding even more fuel.
    Skipping past this, if the throttle relationship and low vacuum are a contributing problem changing to a lower value PV will not help it (may make it worse). While tuning the PV circuit is essential and contributes greatly to performance, I would not lower the value until I had it running correctly.

    Unfortunately, guessing at this is not the answer.

    I'm going to ask a few questions that may have been asked already but I did not see when scanning back through your thread (apologies if it has been asked), so at the risk of redundancy;
    1). Is this a NEW or used carburetor?
    2). While it is running at its lowest idle speed, have you looked down into the boosters to affirm NO fuel is coming out of them.
    At idle you should NOT see any fuel coming through the boosters. If you are unsure what the boosters are, just ask we'll explain, no need to be embarrassed.

    At IDLE, you should NOT see any fuel entering the motor, as the idle circuit's entrance is below the throttle blades (transition circuit as well for that matter). So, if you see fuel entering the motor at idle, you have another problem.

    If this is a used or rebuilt (even from the manufacturer) there could be an error in assembly causing fuel to enter the motor from a source it should not be coming from. Often, it is a simple as a misaligned or incorrect metering block or gasket.

    If this is a new carb, and you see fuel entering through the boosters at idle. Contact the manufacturer for directions on what they want to do to correct it for you.

    Good luck!
    Dave Severson likes this.

  9. #69
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    First and foremost get and use a vacuum gauge when doing any tuning! You may be wasting time and effort guessing at what's happening. I think you said you had a timing light. Is that correct?

  10. #70
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    Ok I know this is way basic, but consult a Haynes , Ciltons, or similar manual and confirm that you are looking at #1 cylinder, as different manufacturers put them on different sides.

    Oh, and that would be .035 on the gap.

    .35 would be about 3/8"
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    Education is expensive. Keep that in mind, and you'll never be terribly upset when a project goes awry.
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  11. #71
    Camaro350 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Yes everything is new on this engine, it is a complete build. I just got a new distributor because I noticed that the cap was damaged due to shipping possibly so I replaced the whole thing with a DUI HEI.

    Yes I’m sorry I did mean .035 on the plug gap.

    So I put fresh gas primed the bowls to halfway in the sight glass and tried starting it. It wants to start but won’t. When I open the throttle plates it starts but then quickly dies and coughs through the carb. I rechecked the timing, the pictures shows you the location of everything after I bump the motor until after number on cylinder intake valve closes. I set number on plug wire on the location of the rotor and go around from there in firing order. 89B8C5AA-F9EE-47B2-B23E-AFC1F33E24C8.jpegDA60A041-76E7-4959-B791-4700C584120C.jpeg4E3077A2-7A8A-40ED-8945-BEB16144BD5D.jpeg

  12. #72
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    JMHO, but appears you have two problems;
    1). There may not be enough initial timing on the motor.
    2). Appears the carburetor is suppling too much fuel to the idle circuits.

    I would give it a little more timing (turn distributor counterclockwise), and try starting it with just a 1/4 throttle. The carb may be too rich to start with a closed throttle, opening the throttle a 1/4 may be enough to get it off the idle circuit but not enough to be too lean when it's cold.
    If that starts it, I would check the idle air bleeds in the metering blocks, occasionally a carb gets set wrong from the factory or may have something in the air bleeds (packing material). It could also have been modified by someone and sent back, then sent to you as new. Check it to be sure, if everything is clear and looks good and the air bleeds are the correct numbers, I would then contact the carburetor's manufacturer for further advice.

  13. #73
    Camaro350 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Ok I will try that tonight starting it with more advanced timing and open throttle, in the mean time here are the specs for my carb.

    Barrels 4
    Booster Down Leg
    Brand Quick Fuel
    CFM 830
    Choke Electric
    Circuit 2
    Emission Code 3
    Fuel Gasoline
    Fuel System Carbureted
    High Speed Air Bleed 28
    Idle Air Bleed Size 70
    Marine Use No
    Material Aluminum
    Model Super Street Series
    Primary Main Jet 78
    Primary Power Valve 65
    Primary Pump Nozzle Size 33;35
    Product Type Carburetor
    Secondaries Mechanical
    Secondary Main Jet 86
    Supercharged Application No
    Throttle Bore 1-3/4 inch
    Part Number SS-830

  14. #74
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    So when you were bumping the engine over until the intake valve closed--------then just what exactly did you do???????
    By popular opinions-just a grumpy old man key board bully--But really, if you are going to ask for help on an internet site, at least answer questions about what you are asking about-----

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry clayton View Post
    So when you were bumping the engine over until the intake valve closed--------then just what exactly did you do???????
    Quote Originally Posted by 36 sedan View Post
    JMHO, but appears you have two problems;
    1). There may not be enough initial timing on the motor.
    2). Appears the carburetor is suppling too much fuel to the idle circuits.

    I would give it a little more timing (turn distributor counterclockwise), and try starting it with just a 1/4 throttle. The carb may be too rich to start with a closed throttle, opening the throttle a 1/4 may be enough to get it off the idle circuit but not enough to be too lean when it's cold.
    If that starts it, I would check the idle air bleeds in the metering blocks, occasionally a carb gets set wrong from the factory or may have something in the air bleeds (packing material). It could also have been modified by someone and sent back, then sent to you as new. Check it to be sure, if everything is clear and looks good and the air bleeds are the correct numbers, I would then contact the carburetor's manufacturer for further advice.
    So I got home cycled the motor over until I was at 15 degrees before TDC and on compression stroke for number one and lined up my distributor housing on the rotor for number one plug wire and after that I assembled and wired the dizzy and it was close to cranking, after I messed with the idle mixture screws put them one and a half turns out and opened up my throttle plates on my primary it started right up. I didn't have much time to mess with it after that so I will be putting a timing light on it but it seemed like it wanted a lot of advanced timing to run. I will update hopefully once I get a timing light on it and see if I can get it running right. Thanks

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