427 Build what do I need

Thank you upfront for helping. I want to build a 427 for my 66 Chevelle. I would like 400 to 500 HP, but still use pump gas. I have a 427 tall deck marine block from a 75 truck, rated stock at 220HP, (apart) .40 over pistons (I may need to go .6 over)stock rods, stock crank, no cam. Heads are from a 73 454 with 113 cc heads,( heads rebuilt). I have nothing else.

Plan to use as a Sunday driver, carb over FI is Ok. Not looking to build a high dollar motor, but if I need good parts that's Ok too.

Thanks

again

cal

the talldeck 10.200 block is not a drop in .if you only staying at 500 hp and only 427 getting the enging to fit is not worth the work . there two ways to go with this build up take all parts less pistons use a 454 block and build a 427 out of it . or start build with a 9.800 deck block with Gm 454 block you can get to 512 cid with out much work built many of the 489 to510 . i have done many of the 10.200 tall decks but we start at 572to 632 cid then it,s worth the work for things to fit .

Ok 1. Not sure what you mean by "not a drop in" 2. Can I get more than 500 hp with this, then is worth the work. 3. Is this block even worth messing with. Is it worthless?
Thanks
Cal

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Originally Posted by calxen61

Ok 1. Not sure what you mean by "not a drop in" 2. Can I get more than 500 hp with this, then is worth the work. 3. Is this block even worth messing with. Is it worthless?
Thanks
Cal

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well you can get 500 hp with a 454 or just about any 9.800 deck block and headers will fit and other things . i put tall deck blocks in both of my 66 GtO.s over the years.572s and 632 many 9.800 blocks from 396 to 548s i know what it takes to stick one in. know abit about bbc and getting 500hp out of a bone stock bottom end 427 tall deck will take some work on pump gas . i am building two 10.200blocks for some one that wants a street strip engine. this started life as a 427 tall deck it is now a 540 as the car its a Gm A body so he went threw the cost of getting custom headers so he has all out race only 598 tall deck i am building or may get on the street if things get to hot and the 540 can not get the job done . i am doing the same thing right now i have my donovan alumiun 632 10.5 cr engine just for the street .my race engine is a 598 14to1 roller engine so car is set up for a easy swap .thats is why i sold my 735 cid just to much work getting it to fit the old A body gm frame. just what i have now i had to do frame and front cross member work streering work to get a good oil pan to fit in the car. to swing the big crank and big header tubes. i done just about every thing you can do to a A body Gm car with both GtOs i had over 30 years

I get it now the tall deck phiscally will not fit in a chevelle and therefor a run of of the mill 454 will be better. Thats too bad cuz the tall deck was free.what can I do with it.

Thanks
Cal

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Originally Posted by calxen61

I get it now the tall deck phiscally will not fit in a chevelle and therefor a run of of the mill 454 will be better. Thats too bad cuz the tall deck was free.what can I do with it.

Thanks
Cal

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it can be done it,s just not a easy way to go .your block can stroked to 525 cid easy and build it but the the same can be done with the 454 can be built to 496 the bigger you go it is by far better if you looking for big power on pump gas

well I am getting an education on a tall block. I am retired now so I can play with my cars. I have build small blocks years ago but never a BB tall deck. :o

So the real problem is we can build the tall block but because of the tall deck stock or aftermarket headers don't fit. Does the 427 or 454 oil pan fit? Also I imagine intakes, distributer, are all different and weight must be more now that I think about it. What other issues does a tall deck create?

thanks again

cal

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Originally Posted by calxen61

well I am getting an education on a tall block. I am retired now so I can play with my cars. I have build small blocks years ago but never a BB tall deck. :o

So the real problem is we can build the tall block but because of the tall deck stock or aftermarket headers don't fit. Does the 427 or 454 oil pan fit? Also I imagine intakes, distributer, are all different and weight must be more now that I think about it. What other issues does a tall deck create?

thanks again

cal

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Because of the extra height of the block it will not clear the hood, it has to use custom headers, to get it low enough in the car the cross member and engine mountings must be modified which creates ground clearance issues. Tall decks can be used to make big inches but not worth the expense & trouble for a street car. You also have to consider that you will have to have custom long length rods and custom pistons and standard big block intake manifolds will not work without 1/2 inch spacer plates on each side.

My old prostock engine was a 427 tall deck but it wasn't in a production car---just for what it can do--stock steel 454 crank, 454 stock ch pistons, +.400 rods, alum c exhaust port heads, tunnel ram---ran 8.002/169.99----think it would have got in 7s but finished bigger motoer over that winter before we went racing the next year-- You would need spacers for intake manifold or special now available intake and a distributor with sliding base clamp-------

And I would not try to put one in an oem chassis---too tall, too wide(especially with modern day raised exhaust port heads

and its less than 1/2 taller at the valley--overall ht can be adjusted by the intake manifold--low, medium,hi riser

with custom length rods you can use stock ch pistons which saves enough money to buy the rods-----

[QUOTE=
And I would not try to put one in an oem chassis---too tall, too wide(especially with modern day raised exhaust port heads

and its less than 1/2 taller at the valley--overall ht can be adjusted by the intake manifold--low, medium,hi riser

with custom length rods you can use stock ch pistons which saves enough money to buy the rods-----[/QUOTE]

OK I will need a different block. Is the stock crank and rods still worth using in a different block. Also the heads are rebuilt from 73 corvette, 113 cc, 2.06/1.72 valves. Will the heads work with a standard 427.

thank you
cal

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Originally Posted by HWORRELL

Because of the extra height of the block it will not clear the hood, it has to use custom headers, to get it low enough in the car the cross member and engine mountings must be modified which creates ground clearance issues. Tall decks can be used to make big inches but not worth the expense & trouble for a street car. You also have to consider that you will have to have custom long length rods and custom pistons and standard big block intake manifolds will not work without 1/2 inch spacer plates on each side.

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all has been posted on this just look around on here as for the intake yes but are spacer plates of 400. but they make intakes that fit but not every one more intakes for big CID engines hi RPM s . then there many custom parts to get your 500 hp small engine with low CR far better to build a 9.800 deck block go as big as you can if there a buget. CID like a 496 not 427 tall deck and deal with things that will take way more time to fit then need for the same outcome with drop in parts on a 9.800 deck block

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

....all has been posted on this just look around.

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Pat, maybe it's "...all been posted.." before, but with all due respect to the forum owner the Search Engine on CHR sucks big time. It's all but impossible to find anything specific in the archives unless you're looking for posts by a specific member. The search options and key words don't support a selective process - if you ask for "bbc intake" you'll get inundated with every post that mentions "bbc", and then every post that has the word "intake". That's why we keep seeing repetitive questions, IMO.

Sorry for the rant, but seems to me Cal's just looking for a hand understanding his best path forward short of calling you for a quote on building his engine.;):):):)

I really thank you guys for your help, and yes I did search the site as well as other sites and this has been the best, by the way where is Bay City. I have collected several cars over the years and now retired I want to work on them and build my first BB motor. I got the 427TD for dirt cheap, with overhauled 73 454 heads, but as I am finding out it was not the best thing to get for a chevelle. So I am trying to see what I can salvage from it and move on.

Info you guys take for granted is an education for me.

So Pat said earlier " there two ways to go with this build up take all parts less pistons use a 454 block and build a 427 out of it . or start build with a 9.800 deck block with Gm 454 block you can get to 512 cid with out much work built many of the 489 to510 . i have done many of the 10.200 tall decks but we start at 572to 632 cid then it,s worth the work for things to fit . "

Do both these builds use any of the parts I have, and if I did the first option is there and HP there?

thanks

cal

You could try an ad, maybe on your local Craigslist or other media to try to swap your tall deck for a standard deck block..... Never know what might turn up!

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Originally Posted by rspears

Pat, maybe it's "...all been posted.." before, but with all due respect to the forum owner the Search Engine on CHR sucks big time. It's all but impossible to find anything specific in the archives unless you're looking for posts by a specific member. The search options and key words don't support a selective process - if you ask for "bbc intake" you'll get inundated with every post that mentions "bbc", and then every post that has the word "intake". That's why we keep seeing repetitive questions, IMO.

Sorry for the rant, but seems to me Cal's just looking for a hand understanding his best path forward short of calling you for a quote on building his engine.;):):):)

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SORRY I DID NOT KNOW HOW BAD IT SUCKS :( if he wants to call me to talk thats fine shop numbers all over the net and face book . i am not a bad guy as some think on here .i have some short blocks done or be happy to build him a lower buck 454 030 over as i have some stock crank s and some with more arm if he wants more CID :)

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Originally Posted by calxen61

I really thank you guys for your help, and yes I did search the site as well as other sites and this has been the best, by the way where is Bay City. I have collected several cars over the years and now retired I want to work on them and build my first BB motor. I got the 427TD for dirt cheap, with overhauled 73 454 heads, but as I am finding out it was not the best thing to get for a chevelle. So I am trying to see what I can salvage from it and move on.

Info you guys take for granted is an education for me.

So Pat said earlier " there two ways to go with this build up take all parts less pistons use a 454 block and build a 427 out of it . or start build with a 9.800 deck block with Gm 454 block you can get to 512 cid with out much work built many of the 489 to510 . i have done many of the 10.200 tall decks but we start at 572to 632 cid then it,s worth the work for things to fit . "

Do both these builds use any of the parts I have, and if I did the first option is there and HP there?

thanks

cal

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bay city is past flint north by about 40 miles my shop is in kawkawlin mi that 20 miles north of bay city . the deal is the deck is really not to tall aPontiac is 10.250 .olds is 10.625 all at one time GM did stuff them in a A body car But the 427 tall bbc was never in a car so work needs to be done and you need to run a bbc A body oil pan on any bbc has the cross over is close and the drag link inner tie rods will hit at full lock if not the right oil pan . things you can use out of the 427 tall deck .is the heads . the crank. the rods. timing cover . oil pump drive . head bolts ... but i buy new.. if you used all this and if you had a 396/402 block with 396/402 pistons would end up with a 9.800 deck engine all parts would bolt up to block and fit in the car with not much work if you had a 454 block and used all your parts with 427 .9.800 piston CH of 1.765 for the 3.760 crank you have you would have a 427 car engine..... the bore on a 454 block is 4.250 same as 454 .thats how you get a 427 from a454 . the 396/402 bore was smaller but cranks is still a 3.760 .. not many blocks could be bore to 4.250 bore so just better not think about it very few would take the over bore. you will see i never said a 427 9.800 car block and just told you to look for a 454 block the 427 car blocks are $$$$ less you in the right place at the right time realy do not need the427 9.800 block to build one better save it for the number restoration guys with deep pockets but even the older 454 blocks are of value to. bbc are not as cheap as SBC round here they always costed more for good cores

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

SORRY I DID NOT KNOW HOW BAD IT SUCKS :( if he wants to call me to talk thats fine shop numbers all over the net and face book . i am not a bad guy as some think on here .i have some short blocks done or be happy to build him a lower buck 454 030 over as i have some stock crank s and some with more arm if he wants more CID :)

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Yeah, I didn't know about the Search feature either until I tried to find the old post about finding TDC and gave up after banging my head into the wall multiple times, and I even knew who posted what I wanted!! Maybe I just don't understand how the engine works!!

OK.. with all due respect.. i have to disagree with only a single point.. that a tall deck will not fit, that it is not a drop in engine..
I run a tall deck in a 68 Camaro, and in my dually.. both are stroked engines.. the 489 in the dually just set up for GOBS of low end torque.. the only concession I had to make on the Camaro was the small diameter booster, the headers actually cleared a little easier. On the Dually I had to get the spacers for the intake and machined the dist lock ring off and added a collar to correct the height. Both engines "dropped right in" using the stock motor mounts etc.. your talking about a 9.8 to 10.2 difference. Less than a half inch.. If an aftermarket intake is used for the tall deck the difference remains at half inch on the breather as well, if the spacers are used it can go beyond an inch taller depending on the intake.
I have installed Tall deck engines in a 56 Chevy truck, a 66 GTO, A 70 Camaro, Multiple 80's / 90's trucks and many other vehicles, including a Vega. They do fit... some with NO modifications, some require slight alterations like a smaller vac booster, and once in a while headers designed for the application. Some... like the Vega require a bit more alteration.
What you have to consider is your application.. depending on what your going to put it into.. is the smaller diameter booster worth using the tall deck?
I know they will fit in 60s and 70's camaro's using that smaller booster, I have yet to install a tall deck into a chevelle, but considering they came with 9.8 deck height big blocks I doubt there would be much fuss getting the tall deck into it.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...DragTruck4.jpg

60's trucks arent an issue either... I suppose it all comes down to what you consider DROP IN... :HMMM:

Pat is the "go-to" BBC guy and I wouldn't do anything he says not to, but just for grins, I assembled this BBC just to have some fun on the DynoSim software........
Cheapo BBC 505 tall deck grunt motor - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board

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Originally Posted by OldMech

OK.. with all due respect.. i have to disagree with only a single point.. that a tall deck will not fit, that it is not a drop in engine..
I run a tall deck in a 68 Camaro, and in my dually.. both are stroked engines.. the 489 in the dually just set up for GOBS of low end torque.. the only concession I had to make on the Camaro was the small diameter booster, the headers actually cleared a little easier. On the Dually I had to get the spacers for the intake and machined the dist lock ring off and added a collar to correct the height. Both engines "dropped right in" using the stock motor mounts etc.. your talking about a 9.8 to 10.2 difference. Less than a half inch.. If an aftermarket intake is used for the tall deck the difference remains at half inch on the breather as well, if the spacers are used it can go beyond an inch taller depending on the intake.
I have installed Tall deck engines in a 56 Chevy truck, a 66 GTO, A 70 Camaro, Multiple 80's / 90's trucks and many other vehicles, including a Vega. They do fit... some with NO modifications, some require slight alterations like a smaller vac booster, and once in a while headers designed for the application. Some... like the Vega require a bit more alteration.
What you have to consider is your application.. depending on what your going to put it into.. is the smaller diameter booster worth using the tall deck?
I know they will fit in 60s and 70's camaro's using that smaller booster, I have yet to install a tall deck into a chevelle, but considering they came with 9.8 deck height big blocks I doubt there would be much fuss getting the tall deck into it.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...DragTruck4.jpg

60's trucks arent an issue either... I suppose it all comes down to what you consider DROP IN... :HMMM:

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yep well i done many tall decks 572 to 638 .and gm 427 blocks 525to540 as well put a few in but built and machined way more one just went out the door. going in a 70 chevelle is a GM A body like a gto done the GTOs more then one time :). but the headers i allways made the tall deck is not a big deal if you building headers were the rub comes in is that most race heads have a raised ex port of .300then you add your 400 to it = .700 lets just say 3/4 not many headers are going to work .power boosters never a big deal very few have much vacuum at idle anyways. far as the dist cutting them down and the intake plates that s just part of my job building engines no big deal just time. long has the customer knows this .now slip collars dist and intakes that are made for the tall deck are not hard to get not like it was 20 years ago

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Originally Posted by rspears

Yeah, I didn't know about the Search feature either until I tried to find the old post about finding TDC and gave up after banging my head into the wall multiple times, and I even knew who posted what I wanted!! Maybe I just don't understand how the engine works!!

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I certainly don't know anything about running a forum, but I see this one headed downhill in a handbasket. Some days I come on here and find only a half dozen new posts since the day before. I can find that many new posts on the Hamb in a couple of minutes or less.

Well----I don't want to hi jack this thread but---------I agree that its going down hill at an alarming rate altho it has reached nearly a vertical slope and is near terminal velocity----I have reached a point where I don't want to try to post any pics from any shows or races I go to and I won't start or add any posts of depth with detailed pics of any machining or engine assembly work----of the 5 or 6 posters still on here regularly, even Roger is complaining about the lack of a decent search ability--------

Oh Well---at least Tech's three word thread is leading----------

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Oh Well---at least Tech's three word thread is leading----------

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Yep, and it was hijacked from hotrodders.com........
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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

yep well i done many tall decks 572 to 638 .and gm 427 blocks 525to540 as well put a few in but built and machined way more one just went out the door. going in a 70 chevelle is a GM A body like a gto done the GTOs more then one time :). but the headers i allways made the tall deck is not a big deal if you building headers were the rub comes in is that most race heads have a raised ex port of .300then you add your 400 to it = .700 lets just say 3/4 not many headers are going to work .power boosters never a big deal very few have much vacuum at idle anyways. far as the dist cutting them down and the intake plates that s just part of my job building engines no big deal just time. long has the customer knows this .now slip collars dist and intakes that are made for the tall deck are not hard to get not like it was 20 years ago

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I agree completely. I have not built many with raised exhaust ports, and back when I did, they didnt go into anything that was going to be streeted regularly, so I will certainly have to leave that knowledge to you :)
I really cant say I dislike the way things have gone with the aftermarket.. I can remember going through cars at the salvage yards as well as their engine piles looking for certain parts and pieces.. in the early 80's when we started building 383's spending days calling places to find a 400 rotating assembly, and paying nearly as much for that worn out stuff as were paying for New now. I can remember when I was offered 2000 each for my Tall decks... you can nearly buy a merlin for that price now.


Pat is the "go-to" BBC guy and I wouldn't do anything he says not to, but just for grins, I assembled this BBC just to have some fun on the DynoSim software........

I'm old and stubbern, disagreeing with someone and THEN learning I am WRONG is the best way to get something through my thick skull.. but in this case were talking about apples and oranges.. I build a lot of engines but Most of the parts are not top end stuff like he is talking about. Most of the folks around here cant afford it. The 800 Dollar Aluminum heads from KMJ Performance are the norm rather than the cheap exception.

Tech1 I like that build.. might be worth looking at having the core shift checked on my last remaining tall deck just to do it! Thx!

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Originally Posted by OldMech

I'm old and stubbern, disagreeing with someone and THEN learning I am WRONG is the best way to get something through my thick skull.. but in this case were talking about apples and oranges.. I build a lot of engines but Most of the parts are not top end stuff like he is talking about. Most of the folks around here cant afford it. The 800 Dollar Aluminum heads from KMJ Performance are the norm rather than the cheap exception.

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I'm kind of the same way, in many instances Hot Rodding has become a game of who has the biggest checkbook and/or wants to be the guy who can brag about all the trick pieces in his engine and entire car for that matter! It's always easier to insist on the best of the best when you're spending someone else's money and not your own! I like the good pieces too but IMO some of them just aren't worth the expense for a street or street/competition engine but reality steps in and many of us have learned to make do with less.

We bracket raced for 5 seasons with the same cast crank, good rods and pistons, and "out of date" CJ heads on a 501" Ford then the guy who bought the car ran it a couple more seasons!!!! In the fall it got a leak down check, then taken apart and checked internally then put back together. The car only ran 10.50's but it would do it consistently and throughout it's lifetime put a lot of very high dollar cars back in the trailer! Could have bought a bunch of trick pieces for it, but for what we were doing with the car there was no reason to do it, a faster car with tons of $$$$$ in the engine doesn't make a whole lot of sense in dial-in, handicap start racing! Same goes for a street toy, street tires and a place to run it being the limiting factors.....If you can't hook it up why poor a ton of money into the engine? Heck, locally a lot of people say I put too much money in my stuff but my "budget" is a drop in the bucket as compared to what some THINK I should spend. I couldn't afford heads-up pro car racing anyway, so for me it always works best to let common sense and practicality determine the budget for the build.

BTW, many years back had a tall deck 427 in a '68 Nova...... A bit of rearranging on the floor board/firewall area was all it took to make out-of-the-box Hooker's work just fine on it!

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Originally Posted by OldMech

I agree completely. I have not built many with raised exhaust ports, and back when I did, they didnt go into anything that was going to be streeted regularly, so I will certainly have to leave that knowledge to you :)
I really cant say I dislike the way things have gone with the aftermarket.. I can remember going through cars at the salvage yards as well as their engine piles looking for certain parts and pieces.. in the early 80's when we started building 383's spending days calling places to find a 400 rotating assembly, and paying nearly as much for that worn out stuff as were paying for New now. I can remember when I was offered 2000 each for my Tall decks... you can nearly buy a merlin for that price now.


Pat is the "go-to" BBC guy and I wouldn't do anything he says not to, but just for grins, I assembled this BBC just to have some fun on the DynoSim software........

I'm old and stubbern, disagreeing with someone and THEN learning I am WRONG is the best way to get something through my thick skull.. but in this case were talking about apples and oranges.. I build a lot of engines but Most of the parts are not top end stuff like he is talking about. Most of the folks around here cant afford it. The 800 Dollar Aluminum heads from KMJ Performance are the norm rather than the cheap exception.

Tech1 I like that build.. might be worth looking at having the core shift checked on my last remaining tall deck just to do it! Thx!

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well if you think my customer have deep pocket s you and others on here are very wrong.... i used second hand bowties . pro blocks . others. many get welded and sleeved fixed by me . some things get reused . some heads are fixed or are blems cams cores get reground .titanium valves are used and cut down. hell when i started i never wasted my time at the junk yard for blocks and cranks i used the scrap yards in town to buy my parts by the pound . some of my best engines came off the scrap pile shopping deals and buying parts second hand was how i did it that 80s/90s .there is more to core shift on the 427 tall deck to look for. if you going past 100 over any thing up to a 4.250 crank in a drop in. 4.1/2 crank needs some work. not all blocks will take a 4.250 them are the ones to keep way from if your building a tall deck stroker less you want to open up the jackets