thanks r pope that makes pretty good sense,I think i'll give that a shot, I just don't want to be destroying any pistons before we get this thing figured out. techinspectator 1 when I had the motor out I found tdc on 1 and when I put the balancer on I marked the timing chain cover in relation to the balancer I'm useing,but I probably did a no-no in ya'lls book I didn't degree this cam in and I really never have never had this problem that's why I coming to you fellows for some good sound advice,and I thank ya'll. please keep it coming if any other suggestions.