AA/FC Quicksilver

[Justin94117]

Reason I asked is cause there was a virginia beach AA/FC vette body funny Quicksilver, and mebe few moons back you mighta been down that way. growin up I loved funny cars.

[Larry M]

Hey Streets, would that be Ron Pellegrini's '66 Mustang called "Super Mustang"

Larry

[Justin94117]

I thought they called em floppers? And heres a quote from Ron hiself Mebe its dispute time!

[quote] Just to add a little insight to the discussion of who had the first funny car... This question has been asked many times before. If anyone has any other info, I'd be interested in hearing about it. To clarify the definition of "funny car," it's a tube chassis/ all glass body/ supercharged engine. To the best of my knowledge, I built the first car that was known as a "funny car." Attached is a picture of the car. I ran it for the first time the third week of May 1965 at U.S. 30 Drag strip in Gary, Indiana. The following weekend I ran at Gil Cohen's Detroit Dragway on Saturday night & Toledo Dragway on Sunday. I have the timing slips.

Ron Pellegrini
acrp33@pacbell.net[quote/]

Heres the link to the quote and pic.

http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%...SOD-111700.htm

[Bob Parmenter]

First "Funny Car". Now that should get mired down in opinion, this could be another Rat Rod go round!

Are you talking about the first guys to get caught altering their S/S car's wheelbase, or are you talking like Doug Thorley's Nova, or are we moving to the first removable body, tube frame, looks like an S/S kind of car? There's probably almost as many ideas of what constitutes a "funny car" as there are people on this forum.

I see Justin piped in while I was typing the first part of this, and already we're getting a definition that serves Pelligrini, but doesn't accurately deal with the origins of the term.

[Bob Parmenter]

Here's a picture of Thorley's Chevy II Much, which predated Pellegrini's car by at least a year.

[Bob Parmenter]

Here's a lift of a discussion between two guys who were active in NHRA stuff back then, so these are first hand accounts. BTW streets, I'd agree with the Eliminator I being the forefather of the "Funny Car" as we know it today, composite body, tube frame, "flopper". It was positively revolutionary in it's day. I still remember the phantom shot Hot Rod had on the cover. But the term really came about with the altering of wheelbases in '64 which made the cars look "funny".

What Were the First Funny Cars?

By Bob Plumer and Phil Elliott

Bob: I know a lot of you feel that the funny cars started with the Dodge Chargers or Jack Chrisman.

I kinda feel it really started in 1960. It was in 1960 that the factories really started throwing the meat into the factory cars. Of course, they didn't have a class called funny cars but that’s where it went. They called them Super Stocks, Option/Super Stocks, A/FX and God knows what else they use to call them.

I know that in 1960 they used some aluminum parts and didn't Dave Strickler have an aluminum hood in late '61 or was it fiberglass? I know in 1962 Chevy, Dodge, and Plymouth did and Ford used fiberglass parts.

Take a good look at Dave Strickler's '63 Chevy. Looks like a lot of overhang there, which might have Chrysler thinking about their altered wheelbase cars. Of course Dave's Chevy had a stock wheelbase but Chrysler move theirs 2% in '64 and we know what they did in '65.

What year did Chrysler started using Titanium cross members and A-frames that weren’t allowed in NHRA?

In '61 there was no winner at the NHRA Nationals as Don Gay won but was found using illegal parts that claimed had GM part numbers.

There are other things also but my mind drawing a blank right now. What is your opinion? I’d like to hear it.

And to answer your question, I'm going somewhere with this but I need your opinions first.

Thanks, Plum

Phil: Your tho'ts that most folk construe the Dodge Chargers/Chrisman's Comet era to be the first FCs is true. Indeed, if you count the blown late model sedans previous to those, it is a small number.

Others tho rationalize that cars like the 554 coupe are the first FCs and that builders just copied their style over into late bodies.

Your suggestion that the actual FX evolvement came much earlier is true and you have even cited a few decent examples. I'm not sure when the first fiberglass or aluminum parts went on which cars but certainly by 1961 the practice was happening. And, modifications in the field were quite well known. Things such as minor engine relocations were common in even legal S/S cars.

And before I say anything else, I must remind those younger that these cars ran in STOCK eliminator. There was no such thing as Super Stock eliminator. When cars were produced that had more advertised horsepower per advertised shipping weight/pound than A/S allowed, Super/S and Super Super/S classes were added on top.

OK, so the factories were into the "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" gimmick and knew if they could find an advantage it would help BOTH. A few sheets of aluminum thrown in the body panel dies gave them hoods and fenders and doors.

Pontiac, who was winning heavily in NASCAR, went to not only aluminum panels but went after their frames with hole saws to create the infamous "Swiss-Cheese" cars. That was mid 62 and their 63 Catalina racecars were all like that.

At the same time they were lightening things, the factory guys were adding more cubes. AND, even more importantly, other factories were taking notice. The 409 Chevy, 389 Pontiac, and 390 Ford were joined by the wild 413 Mopar in 62 and engine that when coupled to a "slush box" was a dominating factor. Of course, the asterisk to that is that Chrysler only offered a HD 3-speed at the moment for the stick shift lovers.

I would say that 1962 was the biggest leap forward in factory development. For 1963, Chevy offered the Z-11 evolvement of the 409 - 427 cubes with aluminum intake and pretty racy pieces, an aluminum nose and a bunch of GO. Ford also stepped up to 427 and aluminum pieces. And Mopars received the 426, again with aluminum body pieces.

The advantage here went to Mopar. They may not have had the best engine, transmission, or whatever, but the overall combination was superb. The body they chose to race, while appearing large, was more of a midsize than what GM and FoMoCo was offering. The wheelbase was at least six inches shorter.

BTW, the Z-11 was never allowed in NHRA Stock and was forced in A/FX. Why? The non-race edict came from on high. GM was out of racing at least in corporate minds. Numbers for the Z-11 were never high enuf for legalization. They were built for SS/S but.

Pontiac had stuck their 421 in teeny Tempests for A/FX.

Can you see why Ford dropped their Galaxie program and went with Fairlane-based Thunderbolts? Can you see why GM racers stuck Z-11s in Chevelles and Chevy IIs, and 421s in Tempests? And, Chevelles and Fairlanes were roughly the same wheelbase as the Dodge/Plymouth B-bodies Chrysler was already racing.

This nutshell description of the Stock -to- FX evolution - which could/should take a book - is just a way to agree with you.

In 64, minor wheelbase alterations were being done to remain competitive, whether at the factory or garage level. And, what added to the excitement was that a small group of folk gambled that this new movement would pay off and developed publications. East and west versions of Drag News covered the door cars, and in early 1964, Super Stock & Drag Illustrated debuted, devoted fully to exactly what its name implies.

Racers like Don Nicholson and Ronnie Sox, both who moved from factory Z-11 Chevrolets in 63 (mostly due to the GM deletion of racing activity) into factory Mercurys in 64, discovered that they were bigger than sanctions and factories. They were in huge demand coast to coast. And the publication covered them.

1964 was also the year of the Dodge Chargers, an exhibition team only to show off what was essentially a show or dream car with a supercharged engine. A pretty interesting idea which was quashed when Mercury allowed Jack Chrisman to build his Comet. Nitro changed things and though Chrisman ran the Comet at very selected venues, it received the desired effect totally - it pulled the ink away from the red, white and blue Dodge Chargers!

Without going through a history of race class wins in 1964, suffice to say that the FoMoCo and Mopar factories stepped up their production of showroom-available racecars (including the Hemi), and there were still enuf independents to make it look like GM hadn't left. Magazines/newspapers covered it all, fans demanded more, tracks gave it to them, and the whole movement took on that snowball-headed-downhill effect.

Flyin'

BTW, the Don Gay incident is not as big as you make it. His A/S Catalina was disqualified for lack of front bumper brackets which the tech inspectors tho't flagrant. That the car had tow-bar brackets obviously beefier than the bumper brackets failed to change opinions.

[draglist]

Hi guys. Thanks for using draglist.com lists and stories in your discussions. The '1945' designation on the lists was a bogus number that we used in doing some calcuations. It was assigned to cars for which we did not know the year and it was never intended for publication. In the updated online lists, we have removed those numbers and replaced them with zeroes. Just wanted to let you know that they have no meaning. The newest versions of the lists also put the year right up front as the first entry. That makes it easier, I hope, to narrow down what you are trying to find. All the best! bp

[Larry M]

Bill, glad ya dropped by and hope you enjoy Club Hot Rod and thanks for the clarification on the numbers.

Great site ya got too and thanks for your devotion to the sport of drag racing.
Larry

[NTFDAY]

I was pretty much a regular at Lion's in the early 60's and was fortunate enough to talk with C.J. "Pappy" Hart on many occasions. He left me with the impression that he considered Al Vanderwoude "The Flying Dutchman" as the father of the extended wheelbase cars. I might be all wet here , but that's what I remember. Others from that era that weren't mentioned were Gas Rhonda and Dick Landy. I also remember a night that Jack Christman almost lost the Cyclone at Carlsbad.

[draglist]

Originally posted by Larry M
Bill, glad ya dropped by and hope you enjoy Club Hot Rod and thanks for the clarification on the numbers.

Great site ya got too and thanks for your devotion to the sport of drag racing.
Larry

Thanks for the kind words, Larry. You have a great site here, too. After my post, I noticed that I STILL have some '1945' years on the lists. I'll get those off there soon. Thanks again. bp