stabbing the 4 speed

well im gonna give it a go and stab a saginaw in the nova for a while anyway, the track is still in limbo <jack roush is suposeedly tying it up in court for a while, yes that jack roush>, so i figure ill get the knowledge and expierience of doing something like this and get a 4 speed at the same time. i have the pedals, z-bar, crossmemeber <in an early nova you have to notch the crossmember for the automatics> even got a flywheel. just need a shifter and a clutch now. wont hurt it to bad. trans only has 39k original miles on it, im not expecting it to last very long beating on it hard, no 7500 rpm shifts until i get a better trans, ill stick to 6k's for now. :D but i say what the hey. ill take some pictures and keep ya updated. yanked it out of the vega tonight gonna do mock up probably sunday after the clutch in the truck is done. so many projects.....:eek:

.......p.s. dave when are you going to sell me that doug nash ? :D

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Originally Posted by gassersrule_196

.......p.s. dave when are you going to sell me that doug nash ? :D

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Soon as I find that extra $7K laying around to replace the whole set up with a G-Force 5 speed........

why not go for a tremec or a jerico?

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Originally Posted by gassersrule_196

why not go for a tremec or a jerico?

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Cuz I want a real drag racin' stlye 5 speed instead of just a redesigned top loader..... The price would be for the clutch, flywheel, trans, and shifter... When ya build big torque big blocks ya can't use the cheap stuff.......

Other reason, the G-Force is similar design to my trusty Doug Nash, just newer and capable of handling more torque.... Like the Doug Nash, maintenance is easy and gear selection is almost unlimited....

well dave if your after hardcore, you could always get a liberty :D

u can get them used on flebay once and a while. i dont think their cert's run out?? well thats why i have a rev limiter :D................................................................................... just looked at the clock 12:04 2 years ago today i won the mothers day weekend race for mom....scooter

Scooter, this is the one to run.... Hi dollar, but really good stuff. When you get one of these you can just snicker at the Jericho's.....:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

just to run 11's dave? jeeeez :LOL: ill just fab my own stuff to run an A833 in that case those are pretty stout :D

11's???? Don't think I could throttle stop the thing back enough to run that slow!!!!!

Anyway, look at the construction of the case... Much easier to due maintenance and change gear ratio's on then any of the OEM based cases....

Used to run the Hemi 4 speeds, stout units, especially if you're going to put it in a small block car.... I thought the separation between 2nd and 3rd was a bit wide... Those small blocks really work nice with a 5 speed, just redline the tach and start pullin' the handle!!!! A V-Gate shifter on a Doug Nash is dang near impossible to miss a shift with and when your run 5th at a 1:1 ratio you can keep the engine right in the power band all the way through...

isnt the long brand shifters the good ones to use? yes and the a833s are cheaper then these clowns wanting 1500-2500 for muncies. all youd have to do is drill the scattershield for the chrysler bolt pattern right? they ahve differnt splines to 18 and 32? i think.

I think it will be hard to Find one of them Mopar 833 4-speeds . But if you do find one I have a good Link for trans parts . I would say your best bet is to find a Super T10 . I know of a guy that has a 62 Vette with a built 377 an a super T10 . He runs High 10s all day and never broke that T10 .

t-10s on ebay are 500+ a833s are 300 and down about the same price as a saginaw :eek: !!! i used to ahve a79 coded t-10 worst thing i ever did in life was sell that transmission what is the link?

Try your Local Crags List . Last year I saw them from $250 to $400 Bucks . And a Lot of them have the 2.88 First gear . And I think there is one with a 3.06 First gear From the 1977 to 80 Z/28s

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Originally Posted by gassersrule_196

isnt the long brand shifters the good ones to use? yes and the a833s are cheaper then these clowns wanting 1500-2500 for muncies. all youd have to do is drill the scattershield for the chrysler bolt pattern right? they ahve differnt splines to 18 and 32? i think.

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Clutch splines and the lenth of the input shaft is the only deal.... There was a company that made an adapter plate for them.... Maybe someone on here with a more "active memory" then mine will remember the name.......

The Super T-10's are a very good small block tranny, too... Fairly sure that Lakewood has the bolt pattern on one of their sbc scattershields.... A super T-10 with either a Long or a V-gate shifter would make a great setup for your small block....

i meant that id have to make my own bolt pattern for the a833 but if those holes are already there cool!! heck even mr gasket made a v-gate style shifter didnt they? super t-10's are going the way of the muncie $$$$$ as of right now anyway. i sure as heck wish i could find that adapter! a guy in one of the new mags i think it was hot rod?? has a cherry black ss camaro drag car with an a833 in it.

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Originally Posted by gassersrule_196

i meant that id have to make my own bolt pattern for the a833 but if those holes are already there cool!! heck even mr gasket made a v-gate style shifter didnt they? super t-10's are going the way of the muncie $$$$$ as of right now anyway. i sure as heck wish i could find that adapter! a guy in one of the new mags i think it was hot rod?? has a cherry black ss camaro drag car with an a833 in it.

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I'll do some checking Scooter..... A bunch of guys around here used to run the Super T-10's, might be some stuff around yet. As for the scattershield, some of the Vett'es used to come with T-10's so I'm sure either Lakewood or McLeod makes one with the T-10 bolt pattern.

Mr. Gasket did make a very nice V-Gate shifter. Only problem was that the arms were junk... The slick cure was to make the arms with moly tubing and adjustable heims for the ends. They shifted real good with the good arms! I used them in the skinny block 4 speed Mavericks for years, never had any problems with missed shifts. They were THE shifter to have in Super Stock classes before the Long shifters came out, should be some used ones around quite reasonable now that most everyone has gone shiftless!!!!!

GM t-10's have the same bolt pattern as a muncie or saginaw :D i meant that the a833 had a differnt one and id have to fab my own holes for it:cool:

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Originally Posted by gassersrule_196

GM t-10's have the same bolt pattern as a muncie or saginaw :D i meant that the a833 had a differnt one and id have to fab my own holes for it:cool:

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Yeah, I don't remember who made the adapter... Maybe Richard or one of the other old drag racers remember... Seems there was a difference in the length of the input shaft, too......


My only thing against the Hemi 4 speeds is that just like the Toploaders, they're a cast iron case and weigh a ton!!!!!

While your looking, take a look at some of the new clutches..... McCleod makes a Soft-Lok (spendy) but there's a couple other companies make a version of it. It takes some of the initial hit off the driveline and prevents some breakage issues....

On the small inch engines, a light flywheel is nice as it speeds up the rate of gain on the RPM when you shift. Aluminum is nice, but then you have to deal with the fact that they don't live real long on the strip, and IMO don't even belong on the street.... There are some lighter billet and nodular flywheels on the market, and even seen a few of them on eBay at a decent price....

yeah i belive they are 3 inches?? longer then a gm. tango was saying something about being able to just use the vega flywheel because its a 153tooth?????i am just using a bunch of used stuff to mock it up so i can make sure everything fits and drive it around then ill order and fetch the goodd long lasting stuff.

Before you wrap up a bunch of $$$$$ in any of it, take a look at the TKO and Tremec 5 speeds, since the six speeds came out they've really taken a big drop in price, brand new they're less then $1800.00, some used one's showing up, too....

dave, right now thats to much, i am in the 0-500 range thats why im on a poormans budget till i get the $ for the good stuff. so far i am into this whole deal 50 bucks, which is what i paid for all the nova stuff , bellhousing, z-bar, crossmemeber etc. and the trans came with the vega so thats free. have a flywheel now , free, just need a clutch and a shifter. i might even get hard up enough to make the vega shifter work!! wouldnt be hard.

ill bet learning to use that v-gate on the street is a different challenge byitself :LOL: good news is when ever that saginaw does go kaplooie dont take much to stuff the auto back in it. course by then i hope to have a good 4 speed trans.

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Originally Posted by gassersrule_196

ill bet learning to use that v-gate on the street is a different challenge byitself :LOL: good news is when ever that saginaw does go kaplooie dont take much to stuff the auto back in it. course by then i hope to have a good 4 speed trans.

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Hmmmm. not a good shifter for street use... Also takes both hands to get reverse and downshifting, other then 4th to 3rd is best done at a stop....

i know i was joking with that a little :D

If your street use is like mine, they work fine.... I wouldn't plan on doing any road racing or autocross with it!!!!!!

i actually like the short hurst the super 3 the little short straight stick with the r/ lockout.

i was always told to run a somewhat heavy flywheel to keep rpm up ??? but i understand a lighter one will get you there a heckuva lot faster then a heavy one. i dont trust the alluminum ones. another way the guys that do it here and they actually are sucessful is they either run a really good pressure plate with a stock disc or vice versa seems to work for them. but they do go through about 4-6 clutch disc a season. not bad all things considered that could cost a whole lot more like axles and drivelines and god knows what else!!!........ thanks for all this info dave... i am asking as many people as i can. i know that with one of those mcleod's you can get pretty consitent to right? i see that zoom makes a dual disc adjustable spring pressure one now to. my dad was saying something about him using a weber? back in the 70's isnt weber the one that joined with mcleod? and what about using one of those iron sintered disc's ????????

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

While your looking, take a look at some of the new clutches..... McCleod makes a Soft-Lok (spendy) but there's a couple other companies make a version of it. It takes some of the initial hit off the driveline and prevents some breakage issues....

On the small inch engines, a light flywheel is nice as it speeds up the rate of gain on the RPM when you shift. Aluminum is nice, but then you have to deal with the fact that they don't live real long on the strip, and IMO don't even belong on the street.... There are some lighter billet and nodular flywheels on the market, and even seen a few of them on eBay at a decent price....

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The big thing with the McCleod that the rep told me is to do the same burnout everytime, and no dry hops... Just pull up and stage... Clutch temperature has a lot to do with the consistency....

The differing opinions on light flywheels will always be there... Big difference is, how fast does your trans shift??? Mine is a comp 5 speed, and shifts with just a blip of the throttle... Sometimes just the first hit on the stutter box. With that Saginaw, you won't be able to shift quite as fast but the consistency can still be there.... Big thing is to remember to do things the same way every pass!!!!!! Using a stock disc and changing it every XXX passes is also a good method, a bit of an insurance policy on the driveline... Main reason for inconsistency with a cluth is experimenting with different things on the launch. Once you figure out what gives the best results for your combination, stick with it and don't change a thing from round to round.

I tried one of the McCleod dual discs, liked it and it was consistent but the Soft Lok is better for me... I've tried all the different discs over the years from 6 spring hubs to solid hubs with paddle discs... Seems certain ones like certain combinations in the engine.... With your mini-mouse engine torque isn't really all that high, I think I would first try a stock type quality disc, Ram or McCleod, maybe a Zoom. Once you get the set up baselined and know what it's doing, then you can use this information to guide which disc to try next....

As for the shifter, I haven't used an H pattern shifter on the dragstrip for 25 years!!! The old Competition Plus was good, no idea what their quality is like now... Once you go in-line with a Long, it's really hard to even want to try anything else.... I like the Long H pattern for the street....

i was looking at a zoom street/strip i always wondered how those 4 paddle discs worked?.....does long shifters have a website i didnt find them on google?

Don't think they do... G-Force sells them, maybe Summit, too. Bought one from Summit once, think they still handle them. Here's the link for G-Force and the info on the shifters,

gforcetransmissions.com/shifter_4speeds.asp

take a look, the Tech guys there can handle any questions you could have on shifters, even the questions you haven't thought of yet!!!!!

oh why'd you show me that, now i want a g-101 4 speed :D that looks to be an incredible piece of machinery. im sure the 5 speeds are just as fun. but jeeez 4300 bucks :eek: so far ive only spent 70 bucks on this whole deal. transmission was free out of the we already had, paid 50 for the pedals,z-bar,crossmember, and bellhousing. and 20 fer 2 flywheels one fresh turned covered in wd-40 on needs to be cleaned. so 70 bucks isnt bad:D now i just need a clutch and a shifter

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Originally Posted by gassersrule_196

oh why'd you show me that, now i want a g-101 4 speed :D that looks to be an incredible piece of machinery. im sure the 5 speeds are just as fun. but jeeez 4300 bucks :eek: so far ive only spent 70 bucks on this whole deal. transmission was free out of the we already had, paid 50 for the pedals,z-bar,crossmember, and bellhousing. and 20 fer 2 flywheels one fresh turned covered in wd-40 on needs to be cleaned. so 70 bucks isnt bad:D now i just need a clutch and a shifter

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Oh yeah, sorry. I forgot to warn you.....SCOOTER----DON'T LOOK!!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Be careful, really easy to get addicted to these state of the art double throw down super trick killer kewl parts..... I've always considered it an incentive to keep working and trying to haul in some extra bucks... The good stuff never is cheap...

Or, anybody can race, how fast can you afford to go????? I've always found that when I want something bad enough I can usually find a way to earn the extra $$$$$ it takes to get it....

yeah but in a 10/11 second bracket car one of them would last a long time:D

Yup, sure would!!! and leave a lot of room for adding some power......

ive noticed that you can get that one mcleod scatter-shield with spacers and differnt mount spots for differnt transmissions id run one of those with an a833 untill i got the $ for a top-o-the-line unit later in life say oh about 10 years from now :D

I'd say go for the McCleod, had mine for about 10 years now!! Might even breakdown and get a new one just like it for the Ranchero!!!! and that would be another very good reason for buying the good stuff the first time around, they live a lot longer...

i just like the fact they have multiple mounting locations on the same bellhousing for differnt transmissions