School me on torque convertors

Tonight Don and I finally got together to pull his engine and transmission out of his T so I can send it back to TCI. You might remember that the last time he drove it I had to tow him home because the transmission acted like it was in neutral. I had called TCI at that time and the guy I spoke with gave me the impression he had heard of this problem before, he suggested that the splines in the convertor or on the input shaft had probably rounded out. He said to send the transmission back and they would take care of it.

When we dropped the transmission and pulled the convertor off we immediately found the problem. There was a rattle of something loose when we turned it upside down to drain the fluid out of it and we could take a screwdriver and move the insides around in the convertor. It looks like it just came apart.

I am going to call them tomorrow but wanted to ask you guys what causes this to happen? Do the welds fail? Also, some metal shavings came out, so I suspect the transmission got some inside it too. Should I demand a brand new transmission since this one only has about 200 miles max on it? Do you think the shavings can be successfully flushed out by TCI?

I know very little about automatic transmissions. I am also going to ask them if we can swap out this one (2800 stall) for a 3300 stall because of the radical cam Don is running.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Don

well i lean the hard way about TCI sounds like to me the stator went out of the stall you will need more stall in a light car and a big cam you will need more stall more gear more stall any thing that will hurt the engine making TQ will need more stall. the best thing to do is give them your cam numbers carb size rear gear tires size and weight of the car and see what they tell you for a stall less is better but if you do not have enough stall you will have to drive it with to feet .i just do not use TCI any more:(

I have to say Pat, I am not thrilled with what I have seen with TCI so far. I called there a few months ago with some other question and it was like I had called Mars. :eek: The guy had no clue what to tell me. The last guy I talked to at least seemed to have something going on between his ears.

Don had called TCI and Summit before he ordered the transmission and torque convertor. Both recommended 2800. I think he needs more stall too. He is also going to slip in some deeper gears while we have it down, probably 3:90's.

Don

well i would try a coan they know there stuff i used many after 3 bad TCI in a row it better to pay a bit more and do it one time

don if you go to more stall get a stack plate trans cooler

What is that stack plate cooler?

Don

the B&M is a stack plate they are very good a bit better then the fine ones, the stack plates are base off air plane cooler have two i using under my cars. what gear is in your son s car now don

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

What is that stack plate cooler?

Don

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The best IMO is made by Setrab. I assembled mine before there were kits. This is a 34 plate cooler, temp control & Spal fan. It's on a 180, off at 150 & is installed on the Prostreet 55. Keeps the 4500 stall converter right at 180 tranny temp. Before that- it would hit 220 in just a few miles with a Specialty Auto Tech frame cooler.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL22/...8/34053560.jpg

I think the TCI circle track converters are better built than their street versions. In general they have tighter clearances and run more efficiently around the street. But I sure have heard of many failures around here with TCI converters as of late. :confused:

For my slightly modified zz502 deuce with 3.50 gear they recommended a circle track converter with 2800 rpm stall. Assumptions were 2800 lb car and ~500+ lb-ft torque from 2,300 rpm on up. I think it cost around $450.

Kitz

I just got off the phone with TCI. They want the transmission and converter back, so I will build a crate today and get it shipped back. He said they were using a washer inside but now have gone to a bearing. :confused: He said he won't know what they have until they cut ours open.

I also asked him about bumping it up to a 3300 and he said they would for the difference in cost, so I guess we will go that route. I don't know why Don broke from our tradition of ordering from Jackson Racing Transmissions, but all the stuff we have gotten from them has been flawless. TCI doesn't impress me a whole lot, their attitude is just too casual IMO, and I do hear a lot about others having problems too with them.

Don

I think you should throw out all that high dollar crap and go back to a Jackson!!!!! IMO store bought mass produced trannies will never be as good as the one's done one at a time by real trannie builders!!!!! B&M has gone the same way, got too big and the quality went right out the window.........

On the rare occasions that I actually cave in and run an automatic, mine are built at Jim's Automatic Transmissions..... He's a guy I went to school with and I see his tranny in his car running 8.90's every Sunday at the track.......

the names TCI and B&M used to mean something, not anymore IMO. I had a holeshot converter that was so far out of spec from one end to the other I could not even bolt it up. B&M tech line recommended I take it to a lathe shop and have some material removed, tried that and it could not even be spun up. Find someone local who rebuilds trannies, and your looking somone in the eye when/if yolu have a problem. No phone call, no reshipping, walk in and see the man. After the holeshot dilema I went with a Trans Specilities unit TC, heard good things on Coan, and BTE as well.

oh yeah!!! That was you that had the problem with the converter, couldn't remember///// Wouldn't fit in the center hole??? Or was yours a different problem????

in the end the final outcome was one end of that was way out of alignment with the other, then the little ears they welded on to bolt up to the flexplate were also out of wack by .25

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Originally Posted by bigjon 454

in the end the final outcome was one end of that was way out of alignment with the other, then the little ears they welded on to bolt up to the flexplate were also out of wack by .25

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I guess they consider that close enough for the help you get these days!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: What a joke.

B&M have been building fine junk stalls or over 20 years and about 17 for TCI nothing new same old $hit .i took out a hole shot B&M in less they 100 feet no hole shots just put my foot down .and have had TCI not even make it that far**)

But Pat with your monsters that ain't saying too much with respect to a normal street dude. :LOL: But OK I hear you :cool:

Kitz

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Originally Posted by bigjon 454

the names TCI and B&M used to mean something, not anymore IMO. I had a holeshot converter that was so far out of spec from one end to the other I could not even bolt it up. B&M tech line recommended I take it to a lathe shop and have some material removed, tried that and it could not even be spun up. Find someone local who rebuilds trannies, and your looking somone in the eye when/if yolu have a problem. No phone call, no reshipping, walk in and see the man. After the holeshot dilema I went with a Trans Specilities unit TC, heard good things on Coan, and BTE as well.

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It's funny, my local mechanic said the same thing to me when I asked if I should rebuild my c6 or just buy a TCI from Summit, which was 300 less. He said take it to our local guy,and you won't have problems. I hope he's right, I pick it up on thursday. 3year 30 k warrenty, and they want to inspect it once I'm driving the car to check for any leaks. Seemed like good guys.:)

to rebuild a tranny must be awesome, they scare the hell out of me. In all my years and all my friends, no one does tranny rebuilds.

Haven't heard that much about TCI lately, but a couple of years ago on a different forum, they were not well spoken of. Too many people getting either bad transmissions or lousy customer service. There are other trans builders that I would go to first. Hopefully I won't have to any time soon.:D

As I mentioned, I am a little disappointed in TCI too. We won't know for sure how they are going take care of this until I get it back from them. I built Don the crate yesterday to ship it to them in, Wednesday he is going to help me get it on my trailer so I can ship it FedEx to them.

I dumped all the fluid out yesterday and was able to now see down into the torque converter. There is a circular flat plate moving around in there that looks like it had bearings in it at one time. Looks like a thrust plate or something. No bearings in it any more, just places where it looks like they went.

What is with these companies turning out crap like this? It's amazing that companies who are well known and advertise so much turn out to be substandard in quality or customer service. These were at one time household words in the hot rod industry, not fly-by-nights. :mad:

What also is a little upsetting is that they say they will take care of the problem but we have to ship the entire transmission and torque converter back to Mississipi. So we now incur probably a $ 100 or so shipping tab because of something we didn't do. :mad: :mad:

Don

Update: I just called Summit Racing who we bought it from and explained the problem. They said all TCI returns have to go directly to TCI, but since we are such good customers they will split the shipping cost with us by sending Don a $ 50 gift certificate. I thought that was more than fair of Summit.

Don, I agree. Summit did good by offering to split the cost. Builds strong customer relations for them with very little out of pocket expense. I don't remember all of the issues and facts around TCI, but there was a period about 4-5 years ago when it seemed like they were turning out more problems then good stuff. A number of people from the other site had to return transmissions to them or in some cases got burned on the deal. I beileve that TCI had changes in the company that affected some of their products and their customer service. Hopefully they have gotten it straightened by now, since most of the people I know don't do business with them anymore. Seems like a many of the complaints were about the TH350 and 700R; heard few complaints on other units.

Like they say "once bitten, twice shy"

Can't sat anything about TCI, never dealt with them. Summit on the other hand, is a very good company to deal with. Any issue I've ever had with a product I purchased from them was handled quickly and fairly.

I'll second that chuck. Summit has been very helpfull to me as well. Good helpfull service folks too.:)

and do what is right to keep a good reputation. Though they have to sell on a low cost basis, as what is cheapest generally wins.