I was pretty much a regular at Lion's in the early 60's and was fortunate enough to talk with C.J. "Pappy" Hart on many occasions. He left me with the impression that he considered Al Vanderwoude "The Flying Dutchman" as the father of the extended wheelbase cars. I might be all wet here , but that's what I remember. Others from that era that weren't mentioned were Gas Rhonda and Dick Landy. I also remember a night that Jack Christman almost lost the Cyclone at Carlsbad.