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I want to get rid of my power steering pump ETC,I no what I can get from JEG'S PINTO,Mustang and so on.Id like to no what I can go find in the salvage yard that I can make work on my 1985 Monte Carlo.Fabracation is not A problem keep in mind this is not A street car it is A NHRA Bracket car.
Mine is new, but it's a "pinto' style R&P. If your after a salvage yard unit I would get measurements and go see what you could find. Last time I was at the salvage yard they had piles of subframes with R&P still on them. Do you have stock front suspension, strut, .....
Things to consider
Are spindles steered from front or rear? Pinto &Mustand are front
I think your car is rear steer
Look for a rack from one of the Chrysler things
IT's stock non strut,I havn't priced A salveged unit yet and I don't have A core to exchange at the yard.If it's not to much more Ill wait till after the Holladay's and buy new,I was told I could also go with A Chevy S-10 Manual box insted of the rack-pinoin.I wan't to end up with one Deep Groove pulley on the crank to run my Altenator, and Im putting A Moroso drive on the water pump.
The S10 manual box is a direct bolt on to replace the power box on the Camaro so I would bet (and I don't gamble) that it will do so on the Monte--it will really be your best bet and if i remember we only paid like $50 for it.
It may be a slower ratio than your power box but at hight speed drag race that's a bonus
IT's front steer good looken out,I hadn't considerd A oil pan issue.
Thanx all, now I have A reason to go play in the snow at the bone yard saturday I reconed some S-10's a wile back should still be their.
For a bracket racer, a rack and pinion would be great and if it's a front steer car the Pinto style rack would be a good one to use. A rack and pinion is so much lighter then a steering box and all the steering arms. Less weight means a quicker car, and front end weight is the best weight to lose!
I hear you dave,Can't wait to get rid of these cast heads for some Aluminum ones that should get another 6" day light under the front's,
the S10 is the box to use you can save some weigth with the rack and can help if you go big engine and need more room
Do I use the S-10 pitman arm or the monte.
This is a good thread and I'd like to horn in if I may... I'm looking for R&P for a '68 Firebird... it's rear steer. Anyone know a good replacement? The aftermarket has some but it seems the period Camaro/Firebird specific units are quite a bit more spendy than your run of the mill pinto unit...
thanks and sorry for the hijack
-Chris
Rear steer is the issue on the rack, Skids... Best might be to measure the room available between the back of the crossmember and the oil pan, then go junkyarding and measure some of the rear steer racks you find and see what will fit... Friend of mine converted his '67 to front steer spindles, then used the Pinto stlye rack.. No idea which spindles he used, but it sure did free up a bunch of room by going to the front steer rack!!!!
PS--one of our local "self-proclaimed genius" types put a front steer rack behind the crossmember....worked great excep left is right and right is left....oops!!!!!
Going to a rack on yours, might also want to consider coilovers instead of the stock springs and shocks and do away with a few more pounds of ugly fat!!!!
For spindles, measure the total length of the spindles you have know and see what you can find for front steer spindles that are the same, or close enough to be made to work. If the ball joint taper is different on the spindles it's no big deal either...just run a taper ream through the spindles to match the angle you have on the ball joints, or use the ball joints that are correct for the spindles you use!!!! Some searching and engineering a long with some careful fabricating can make it look like a factory installation and the savings in weight and quicker steering (with a faster ratio rack) makes it worthwhile.... Getting the bump steer correct with a rack and pinion is really the only major design issue on the project....
your spindles are then same as A body gm front steer from 65to 72 the spindles have a bolt on arm. by bolting the arm in back that make yours rear steer from GM:3dSMILE: so maybe you could make yours front steer by swaping your bolt on arms ? i know your car has the cross member could be in the way for a rack the arms are not the same from A body but the spindles are but the arms for the disc brakes use a bigger bolt thru the spindles that can be drill out .i made new ldle arm bracket and new pitman arm for the gto when i had to cut and box the cross over for the bigger engine could have gone rack but that would of been less work:DQuote:
Originally Posted by skids72
Thanks guys... yes I think I'll need new spindles for front steer or if it's just matter of different arms for the spindles I got.... crossmember is a deal killer for rear steer... running drums all around now and was planning to go disc as part of this project... I'll see if father time and mother pocketbook have it in the cards this winter.. :HMMM:
-Chris
Heck, just bring it over next week Skids... Got to put the rack and build new suspension for the front of my 'maro... Might as well put 'em side by side and gang up on the projects!!!!!
Also, pay attention when you pick out a rack, there are a couple different steeing ratios offered.....
I think the chrysler Omni was rear steer---
A word ob caution on rack steering conversions---beware of bump steer--they need to be mounted at the correct height andpivot points
i thinking you did not read my post:( no you just swap your arm left to right and put them in the front or use gto arms like i said your spindles are the same as rear steer A body GM . i do know abit about this :HMMM: i did both my gto from drum to disc and then back to drum spindles for the wilwood brake kits and sold the disc spindles to a guy to use on his 68 camaro**)Quote:
Originally Posted by skids72
The rear steer arm is not the same arm as the front steer arm for these spindles. The front steer arms put the outer tie rod outboard of the lower ball joint; while the rear steer tie rod placement is inboard. If you use rack & pinion with the stock a-frame location, bump steer will be really bad. You may get by with the bad bump steer for straight line racing, but this could get you in trouble if something goes wrong during a pass and you have to make a hard steering correction. Beware!
never said they were the same arms i did not say they will work said they could. you need to work thru and see if it would. if you say it will not OK :D yes you would have to check for bump steer the front steer arms could work ? bump steer.. you will have a chanch of bump steer if you put the rack in worng to ???? i drop the center link down 1 inch on the gto i do not have bump steer that is why i just re work what i had was worried about THE BUMP STEER:eek: never have seen him :DQuote:
Originally Posted by deuce4papa
I read your post I guess I misunderstood... you're saying just swap the arms and I'm good to go? And I can use the same spindles with discs? You'll have to forgive my ignorance, I really know NOTHING about this stuff... Is there a junkyard rack I can throw in without a ton of fabrication... then there's the whole steering linkage and column and all that I'll need to figure out... I need to do a lot more research.Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
Thanks again,
-Chris
P.S. Okay I posted prematurely again... just read the last couple posts. I guess there is more to it than I thought... any good reference books on this or a "kit" that will keep me out of trouble?
if you buy a wilwood kit they need to be drum spindles if you use a gm disc brakes you need the spindles to be for GM disc spindles drums spidles just will not do the job:D for swaping the arms to the front decuce4papa said you can not do it .maybe you could use A body arms for front steer i just do not know ?Quote:
Originally Posted by skids72
Chris. "Chassis Engineering" by Adams will help you understand the issues you will have with rack and pinion install. All well engineered suspensions will have "bump steer". The turning radius of the inside tire will be less than the outside tire and front end design must have a way of accounting for this on a properly engineered suspension. The steering arm is only a small piece in the puzzle here. You will need to have a good understanding of the engineering involved to make a good rack and pinion install. As Pat mentioned, even the rack & pinion placement up and down as well as front to back changes the amount of bump steer. Lots of variables here.
Thanks d4p... I'll check it out!
-Chris
Hay skid's hope you find what your looking for,and I assume you'v already looked at The NHRA rule book to make sure your good to go with this change.As for me at this point I think A S-10 manual steering box fit's my budget and needs hope every thing works out for you,don't no what class's you run ?.Thanx to every one for your input good info
your taking about one wheel turning in faster in then the other in a turn thats ackerman steering and thats a big deal .some bump steer can be work out with spacer on the arm s and drilling out the tapper and using a rod end and not a tie rod end.i was looking to do this if needed on the goat it just did not need to be doneQuote:
Originally Posted by deuce4papa
your taking about one wheel turning in faster in then the other in a turn thats ackerman steering and thats a big deal .some bump steer can be work out with spacer on the arm s and drilling out the tapper and using a rod end and not a tie rod endQuote:
Originally Posted by deuce4papa
Yes. Ackerman and bump steer are both big deals and are created through the design of the suspension. Both create toe. If Chris will purchase and read the book, everything that has been mentioned in this post will be explained in detail. Great reading Chris. You will enjoy it.
a older book called how to make your car handle is good to