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I have my CE rear parallel leaf spring kit for a 35-40 Ford and it seems pretty straight forward, but they only send you one very brief page of instructions that are not worded very well. I'm confident I should be able to install this without too many problems, but being a newbie there is always room for concern.
Does anyone know of a write up on installing this kit or a similar kit, or have some tips to think about during the installation? Thanks
It always amazes me that companys put such vague, hard to understand instructions in the box. Dan and I just installed his Gennie shifter the other night, and had to guess at a lot of the install. The instructions skipped over some very important stuff.
If no one on here has specific experience to offer you, call the manufacturer and raise cain and see if they can give you better details. I have done that and actually had the person say to me "yeah, our instructions suck." Well then, fix them. :confused: :confused:
Don
The instructions are usually in one of the hardware bags if you haven't opened all of them. Otherwise, they'll fax or mail you a duplicate. As I recall they were thorough enough to eliminate any questions. But just in case......
Been a few years but should be pretty simple. Some of the holes in the brackets should line up with existing holes in the chassis, the rest you drill.
The rear brackets have three holes through the rail side, there are three spacers that go on the back side of the rail to fill the gap to the inner bracket upright, the shackle mount goes to the back. The front mount wraps around the frame, short "tab" on the out side, taller tab to the inside. Don't remember for sure but I think had to weld or bolt a bracket at the top to tie into the upper section of the rail. Probably have to overbore the holes that come through where the X member intersects so that the nuts clamp to the outer rail only, not the X member leg at an angle.
Springs should be marked for R & L if there's a difference.
a few of the existing holes in the frame for the rear brackets line up, but the front brackets are based off of a hole you have to measure 3-4' away from. I guess as long as the wheels are centered not much else matters.
Bob you did re enforce something for me on the "overboring holes at the X" That part made little sense to me in the instructions, but I think it clicked for me now. I guess I'll have to sort through the hardware and figure out on my own by elimination what is used where and where the strange washer like spacers go exactly.
I might call CE and see if they have a write up like other companies publish for various kits.
One other question...the kit specifies a 67-69 camaro or 68-74 nova rear...I have been looking for one for a while, but I'm not really in a good area to find one. I had been thinking of using an s10 rear and the thread about s10 rears got me thinking again. What would be the reason the kit specifies a camaro/nova rear and would an s10 rear work (fitment wise) just as well?
Spring pad location and overall width, they design it so that it's a "bolt in". I've never used the GM axle kit, just the Maverick one, but I'd imagine they're about the same overall. Might be your brackets have some offset that the one's I've used didn't? Might be a question worth asking the CE folk.
I may have located a '69 Camaro rear...I'm going to pick it up tomorrow hopefully. If that falls through I'll call CE and ask them a few things. Thanks for the help!
I picked up a rear last night that I believe is from a '68 Camaro. I am supposed to cut the stock brackets off to use it with this CE kit right?
Not according to the CE site; http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/page62.html
Assuming you're right about what you've got.
If it were me I'd install the springs then measure before doing any mods.
hmm maybe I got a bad tip on that then. I won't cut anything until everything is bolted up and I am sure it's all right. Just another reason I want a write up so I can at least see pictures of how things look...thanks
I had been told to cut the brackets off the '68 Camaro rear I picked up...turns out the person that told me that uses the Ford kits. This kit with the chevy rear reuses the stock brackets and spring pads with the pinion angle built in. Good thing I double checked first!
My new question is this...the front brackets need the frame to be square in order to sit properly. The frame is a little out of wack there and I am trying to square it up. It is probably an 1/8 or two off...what is the best way to get it square besides banging on it with a hammer...which I tried....thanks
Use a big crescent wrench to staighten out the bottom lip of the frame to make it square with the outside of the frame. If the two frame layers are seperated a bit clamp them together with vise grips then bend with the crescent wrench. If I'm straightening a section of the frame where it is only a single layer I use a peice of 1/8" x 1 1/2" x 4" long flat bar as a backing piece for bending the frame lip. If you are bending the lip up set the flat bar on the top edge of the lip and bend. If bending down put the flat bar on the bottom side. The flat bar keeps the end of the crescent wrench from putting a dent in the lip of the frame. If you beat on it with a hammer it just has a tendancy to sping back
It took me a few times reading that to get the picture in my head, but I understand what you are saying. The backing plate helps to bend the whole bottom of the C channel instead of just the edge.
I was realizing that the hammer was mostly bouncing off, but I'd like to believe it was doing a little bit of good. As thick as the double layer of steel is I wouldn't have thought I could bend it back with a cresent wrench, but it is worth a shot if this is a proven method :D . One issue with the backing plate is that where the front brackets mount where I'm trying to square it up is curved...maybe if i use a real narrow backing plate it would still prevent bending the lip and keep the curved shape in the rail.
My other solution is to maybe get a cinder block and a bar to pry up on the rail? Again though I'm concerned about the curve of the rail.
CE in the instructions says simply to "square the frame to 90* using a square" I tried beating the frame with the square, but it didn't work :HMMM: :D
What is the best way to make sure the wheels are centered in the fenders before permanently bolting everything up? CE provides all the measurements, but they can't be perfect. The rear of the fender flares out so I don't feel like I can accurately measure the fender opening and I am working in too small a space to be able to step back and really look at it :confused: . Also the shackle at 90* is a neutral position. Should I be positioning the shackle slightly backward or just at 90*.
This job is not getting done very fast only working a little in the evenings and I have some issues (nuts and bolts not threaded the same, brackets not fitting the frame, etc.), but it is moving along. Thanks
Really, the best way is to "eyeball" it, as that's what will be the measure once it's on the road. You want to bolt or clamp everything into place (suspension, axle, wheels/tires, body parts) as close to final (projecte/desired) configuration as possible and preload with some weight (sand/concrete bags, scrap metal, whatever) to approximate final loaded condition. If you don't have the final tires, or are unsure of what whould be best, you can make up cardboard cutouts to various diameters to play with. I would strongly recommend you figure a way to roll the vehicle out so you can get a long view of it from several angles to ensure you're happy with the results. There's no real effective way to tape measure a good look, sometimes what works best for the eye isn't "right" on a tape.
Welcome to the REAL world of aftermarket parts. My new TCI chassis had such poor instructions that I resorted to using their catalog photos to assemble it - along with several phone calls which seemed only to make it worse.
Lokar is another company that has nice pieces but crummy assembly instructions - and I'm using a lot of their pieces from a shifter, ebrake/cables and kickdown and more. I have bellyached to them at every show that I have seen them up to and including this year at York. I can't be too nasty as they are converting/replacing my tranny filler tube to the new style at no cost:cool: .
ok ok I'm going to figure a way to get a proper look at it. The CE dimensions do NOT add up and I'm tired of playing around with their crap and vauge answers to my questions. So if i fix the brakes on the GTO I can pull it out of the garage and for the other side if I can get the car back a couple feet I can look at it through the side garage door :LOL:
This may have been mentioned I didn't read every word of the thread (being I have nothing to offer concerning this particular kit) but sometimes I think their "vague" instructions are to cover their ars. If they say "These are parts to be installed by a professional" and "To your design, so you are on your own" that releases them from the liability of the design. Just a thought.
Brian
very good point MARTINSR...it's unfortunate, but a very valid point. If you call them though they have no answers for why these instructions don't add up...they simply say "don't worry about that" or "just do this part" etc. Very nice people, but they can't seem to come up with reasonable answers...
I'm just confused because this kit seems to be very popular and they even told me the kit is so old that when it came out the '68 camaro rear it bolts up to was damn near new...seems like over 40 years they could come up with a few answers...
well I got a chance to look at it again today. the way I see it is there are three things that are important. 1) wheel centered in fender 2) shackle position 3) rear end straight to frame.
I had drilled through the rivet for the first hole on the rear bracket a couple days ago since the only thing CE states is that that rivet lines up to the first hole in the rear spring bracket. I put that bolt through and clamped the back.
Today decided to forget CE's measurements and see how well I could "eye ball" it. I feel like I nailed the drivers side...it looks centered and the shackle is slightly toward the back. The passenger side wheel, however I feel should still go slightly forward. The shackle is already slightly forward though and if the wheel goes forward the shackle will be even more forward...which does not match up very well to the driver side shackle being toward the back. Nothing I have measured on the rear has come out and I am starting to wonder...:(
Bottom line is the rear spring brackets are each mounted in the same place with each wheel centered, but each side produces a very different shackle position :whacked:
I have a rear sway bar sitting here from CE that won't fit. I explained to them when I ordered it that it was to go on a 3/4 ton 51 chevy pickup. I even warned them the frame width is more narrow than the 3100 truck. Wasted my breath.
I'll post here somewhere else on that topic.
I don't recall having as much trouble with the instructions, but then it's been a few years. I seem to recall that some of the bracket holes lined up with existing factory holes and the rest had to be drilled. I know it was that way on my '33 that I did just a couple years ago.
The best I can do for you here is attach a picture of how my shackles hang, pretty close to vertical (with the car on it's wheels), this is before the useage caused settling. The centerline measurement of the upper shackle bolt is ~6" from the end of the frame. This dimension may not be of value though because this is a later 36 frame which is somewhat different than '35 and early '36 frames in the rear. It may or may not be the same. Also, if you're uneven side to side you may want to measure your frame to see if it's diamond'. Pick a factory hole or rivet on the bottom of the frame that is the same location on each side of the frame. Then cross measure (left to right and vice versa) front to rear. If the frame measures the same or very close on both dimensions the frame is square, if one dimension is longer than the other the frame is out of whack and will need to be squared up. As for the body, sometimes build tolerances will be different from side to side, but usually that won't amount to much over say 1/4".............unless there's been some body repair in the past.
As for CE attitude, I've had it both ways with them. Once I received a kit with no instructions, they immediately faxed them to me, and followed up with snail mail. On the other hand I called on the center trans mount conversion on my '33 and it's incompatibility with a Lokar shifter mounting bracket. My question was if they'd made a modification to deal with the interference. The guy launches off on a mini tirade about how it's not their responsibility to work around other peoples product, and how they've been in business for 14000 years or something. And then topped it off with they'd never heard that "complaint" before. When he finally shut up I said it was a question not an accusal, and that it was amazing to me that THE most used shifter in the hobby was only an issue on my car. Anyway, he calmed down and we figured out a solution (more from my end than his). I just chalked it up to his having a bad day............maybe there's a cancerous employee in there program.