Definitely a lot more heavy duty then the run of the mill MII stuff! Even using the Fat Man stuff I still add a few frame to x-member gussets... I've used the thing wall stuff, too. They need some plates over the lower A-Arm holes front and back, a metal tube inside the X-Member for the lower A-Arm bolt to pass through and especially the extra gusseting! But then I seldom use anything as-is out of the box...The racer in me keeps remembering all of those "store bought" parts that tend to break at the most inopportune time!!!!!!