Help me with Welding

Hi, i am going to take some welding classes at school soon, and i plan on building a very traditional style model A hot rod. What is the best type of welder to use to box, or "Z" a frame? I plan on buying a welder so any brand/model reconmendations would be helpfull. I am in college now so cost is a big concern but i dont want to end up with a POS welder that i regret buying. also where is the first place to start as far as modifying a frame? are there any plans around that will tell me where and what cuts to make?

Thanks for all help,
Chris

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Originally posted by Montechris
Hi, i am going to take some welding classes at school soon, and i plan on building a very traditional style model A hot rod. What is the best type of welder to use to box, or "Z" a frame? I plan on buying a welder so any brand/model reconmendations would be helpfull. I am in college now so cost is a big concern but i dont want to end up with a POS welder that i regret buying. also where is the first place to start as far as modifying a frame? are there any plans around that will tell me where and what cuts to make?

Thanks for all help,
Chris

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In my opinion and it's only that............ Best first

TIG also called Heli-Arc but a little spendy
MIG (gas shield)
MIG (flux core wire)
Stick

Tig's make the strongest welds but are the hardest to do.
If you've never welded before it is tough as hell.
Mig is pretty easy and makes strong enough welds for frame
work. Stick is strong too, but isn't as clean as mig or tig because
it doesn't have the sheilding gas. Plus if you have to do body work it is real hard with a stick.
I'm just out of college so I'm on a budget too. I have a clark mig welder. Most older guys will tell you there's nothin but "miller" or "hobart" or "Lincoln", depending on which they happen to have. Realistically, there isn't much to a welder, you need a wire drive, a gas line, and a lot of juice. I got a Clark that runs off 220V with a max output of 180amps and a min of 30amps. I use it for body work to frame work. It cost $400. My dad has run a machine/welding shop for 30 years and has $8000 welders. He told me unless I'm gonna run the thing 9 hours a day 6 days a week, it will be fine to get the cheap one.
Another thing you need to keep in mind when comparing price is the "duty cycle." Duty cycle is what you pay for. It is basically the percentage of a 15 minute interval that you can weld at a certain power.
For example- 80% duty cycle at 150amps.
This means you can weld at 150amps for 80% of 15 minutes, and you have to let the welder cool for 20% of 15 minutes.
My welder is cheap because it has a short duty cycle at high power. This only matters if you are running a business and are paying a welder to work. If you are using this in your garage you can afford to let it cool.

You can't go wrong with a Miller. The major differences you'll notice between a cheap welder and an expensive welder are when starting an arc and duty cycle. I use the Miller XMT 304 welders a lot, and they do a full power start. You just place the electrode near the work, and it explodes into arc. None of this striking it like a match. Duty Cycle is the amount of time you can weld at a certain current before the welder has to shut down and cool off. I generally run the XMT welders at 135 amps and have welded for hours straight pausing only to change electrodes. The machine didn't even get warm. Then, I've used cheap mig welders which cycle off after about 2 minutes of welding near their lowest power setting.

If you're going to be boxing a frame, get a welder that can run at about 80 amps or so for a good period of time.

he's right, you can't go wrong with a miller. Those $8K welders that my dad has are millers, and they get run non stop all day every day.
If you're a young guy like me however, then a couple hundred bucks makes a big difference. If you buy a miller, you'll pay twice as much for the same output. The extra cost is for the name "miller" to be printed on the side.
Spend some time comparing cost, duty cylce, and output. Also take notice of how many power settings they have, the more the better, continuous power setting is the best (infinite settings).
I'm not a Clark spokesperson or anything, but mine strikes a perfect arc immediately and can weld around 100 amps non stop. I boxed my frame and put in cross members, etc.

Thanks for all the great info. can you explain to me the difference in mig welders that have a gas hookup/need a gas hook up/ and dont have a gas hook up.

thanks again,
Chris

Chris,

If you are going to take a class soon, I suggest that you wait until you are well into the class before you buy your own unit. In the class you will learn about the different types of welders and the advantages and disadvantages of each one. You will get to use different welders and gain som e experience hands on. You will also have the benefit of the advice of your instructor and his experience. And finally, you might find that there is a discount purchase program for students. Sometimes businesses will offer those to introduce potential customers to their business.

Good luck and good for you for taking the classes

Pat

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Originally posted by Montechris
Thanks for all the great info. can you explain to me the difference in mig welders that have a gas hookup/need a gas hook up/ and dont have a gas hook up.

thanks again,
Chris

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A flux core wire welder is just that. The flux core in the wire (same principle as flux core solder) protects the weld pool from the atmosphere. The atmosphere will contaminate the weld. A gas wire welder uses Co2 gas to shield the wire from the atmosphere rather than flux. The gas MIG welds cleaner because there is no flux. Flux core MIG welders can be upgraded to a gas MIG, but I would just get the gas set-up to start with if you can swing the extra cost. I have a cheap Century 135 Flux core MIG and that purchase was a mistake. I don't use it at all anymore. Wire keeps balling up after the feed wheels.

A TIG welder uses argon as a shielding gas and a non-consumable Tungsten electrode (Electrode type depends on what material you are welding). With TIG you start a weld puddle with the (torch) and feed the puddle with a filler rod. The difficult part of welding with a TIG set-up is you run the torch with one hand, a filler rod with the other hand, and on better models you control the amperage or heat with a foot peddle. Nice thing about TIG is there is little or no smoke, sparks, noise and you can make some great looking welds with a little practice.

there's no point in getting a mig if you aren't gonna get the gas hook up.
Tecknically you shouldn't even be able to call it a Mig without gas.
Flux Core sucks.

StuCool gives good advice; it's better to get a little experience in your welding class before you decide on a welder...

I have been welding for nearly 40 years and I agree that if money is no object you can't beat a Miller, but there are some nice machines out there that will do the job just as well. The challenge is finding them. For all around ease and convenience of use for the home shop, I recommend you take a look at the wire-feed welders that can do both MIG and flux core. (Flux core has spatter and slag that MIG doesn't; that's probably why tcodi says it sucks.) I have a Firepower FP130 welder that I bought from Welding Direct that came with the gauge and hoses to hook up for MIG. It also works with flux core wire and that is how I use it most of the time. It runs on 110 volt wall outlet and has a 40% duty cycle. It easily welds anything from body sheet metal to 1/4" plate. I also have an old Linde stick welder that I can use if I need to weld anything heavier than 1/4". Lowe's carries Lincoln welders and they have a small welder very similar to mine with a slightly lower duty cycle that you might want to look at.

As far as your project is concerned, a Model-A frame is very simple and you will have less labor involved if you just build a new frame from 2"x3" tubing. I have done several Model-A frames over the years and it's easier to replicate the frame from box tubing than to modify an original...

I am going to take some of the classes first before i get a welder, and i'll talk to the teacher. I dont know much about this welding program. My school has a learning factory where they will teach you how to weld. Its mainly for eningenering students to teach them some hands on skills(though must of them cant fold a cardbord box) anyway its free and they said they will teach me how to weld. Im trying to make a master plan where pennstate funds and provides the facility for me to build a 3 window coupe or roadster hhmm?:LOL: Does anyone know much about the hobart handler 140 from what you guys have tought me it seems like a good welder. they are new on ebay for $429.

if you find a way for your college to fund you building a hot rod let me know cause I'm gonna quit my job and enroll back in school.

That class isn't full yet is it???? :confused: :confused: :confused: