Chargeing system help

Hey guys need some help BAD with a problem on a 66 t-bird.

Heres the problem.

The chargeing system was not chargeing the when i finished restoring the car at the end of last year so i figured it was an alt. problem so i'm getting the car ready for a show and for the woodward dream cruise right now so i just picked the alt. up from being rebuilt. The alt. was rebuilt and tested so it should be good,well after installing it today it is still not charging when its running.

I replaced the alt. the voltage reg,made sure the ground from the alt. was clean and grounded.

I have power from the main power wire going to the alt. and the power wire going to the voltage reg. but the problem is there is no power in the white field wire at all.

The electrical system of cars is one thing i admit i have NO clue as to what to do besides the basics so ANY help is very welcome.
I'm trying to get the car ready for a show this saterday and for the dream cruise in less than 2 weeks so anybody has any thought of what to try next let me know...i'm stummped!!!

thanks
BG

If ALL the electrical components are good, I would think it has to be a wiring problem?? Is there a good ground from the engine to the frame and/or - post of the battery??


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I don't get much of a charge out of workin' on electrical stuff eeeeder'. He HE EH

hey Pro

yup the ground from the batt and from the wireing harness that gos to the alt are both good,i just took them off and cleaned the ground and the spot on the frame.

BG

Do you have an amp guage or volt guage?

Quote:

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Originally posted by BlownGoat
hey Pro

yup the ground from the batt and from the wireing harness that gos to the alt are both good,i just took them off and cleaned the ground and the spot on the frame.

BG

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BG
Maybe somebody else has an idea? Got continuity through all the wires, maybe ones broke under the insulation?? Probably not the case, but you've pretty well tapped my electrical knowledge already. I would probably trace all the wires that are supposed to have power (and don't ) back-back-back til I found power or a component that had power. If that didn't work I'd sleep on it and try again tomorrow. If that didn't work I'd get out the BIG hammer. :CRY:



How's the Goat comin' along by the way?????

NTFDAY it use to have a amp gauge but now has a volt gauge.
a guy i just spoke with said for me to make sure that who ever took the amp gauge out spliced the wires together under the dash because that could cause a open circut if they arent and might be the problem.i'm gonna check that in the morning.

Pro

man not good at the momment...i just returned from vacation about 2 weeks ago and was greeted with work telling me that they were letting me go after 8 years of work. hey said lack of work and having to make cuts....real reason i think is i was making the highest of anyone in the shop and they are looking to save a few bucks for there pockets if ya ask me.

So i have time to work on it but money is very thin till i get back to work.

BG

NTFDAY i just sent ya a email back let me know that you get it because the first 2 times it got returned back to me for some reason.

Kinda sounds like a Generator that needs to be polarized

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Originally posted by BlownGoat


man not good at the momment...i just returned from vacation about 2 weeks ago and was greeted with work telling me that they were letting me go after 8 years of work. hey said lack of work and having to make cuts....real reason i think is i was making the highest of anyone in the shop and they are looking to save a few bucks for there pockets if ya ask me.

So i have time to work on it but money is very thin till i get back to work.

BG

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That bites. My wife lost her job @ a plastics manufacturing plant HR dept. after 15 yrs. They had been downsizing the last few years and she survived em' all til this last cut when they locked the doors. She found another job @ less than 1/2 what she was makin' and twice as far away. She's still lookin' for something closer but jobs are tight right now. Fortunately I'm busy so we're O.K. Sure throws a wrench in the plans tho.

Yeah sure dose ..but i'll be ok till i find something else just have to be a little wiser with the cash untill then,but the goat will still be on the road in the spring even if i have to get 2 lower paying jobs to do it. gotta do what ya gotta do ya know.

BG

Blown Goat,

If it used to have an amp guage in it, definitely check to make sure that the wires were spliced together when it was removed. The reason is that an Amp meter has to be connected in series, (like a light switch) so if it is removed, the circuit is essentially cut, just like if you removed a light switch. It is connected this way so that it can measure the current flowing THROUGH the circuit. A volt meter is connected in parallel and measures voltage ACROSS the circuit. So the bottom line is that you can remove a volt meter without causing an open circuit; but, you can't remove an ammeter without leaving an open circuit that needs to be repaired.

Good Luck with the T Bird, and I'm sorry to hear about the job. I hope you have good luck landing a better one real quick.

Cheers,
Firechicken

Tech & Goat Must be old age, I had two of the letters reversed.

Goat An amp guage is internal to the system and if it was removed and the wires not properly spliced together it will definitely cause your problem as the system will be open (No current flow or voltage path). Also the regulator has to be grounded so the internal coil has a path. Hope this helps.
Ken

That helps alot guys because i never would have thought of that myself and when the guy that mentioned that amp meter causeing the open circut it made sence to me but it makes it sound very possiably the cause to hear some of you guys say the same thing!

I will be checking to see if that is the prob and splicing them together if there not and let you know if that gets it charging tommorow.

Thanks!:toocool: :3dSMILE:

BG

Hi,
If you have not solved the charging system problem, I’ll try to help out. After looking over wiring diagrams for the alternator circuits. I think I have a few things for you to check. I hope I don’t give bad info.

The early model circuits with an ammeter is as follows
I terminal of the regulator is not used.
A+ terminal of regulator is connected to the battery terminal of starter relay.
S terminal of regulator is connected to the ignition terminal of the ignition switch; the switch is feed from a shunt style ammeter that is in series of the battery feed to the alternator
Ground should be common between the alternator and the regulator.
Seeing the ammeter has been removed just connecting the two ends together should not cause the system to start working.


The wiring should be put into a warning lamp configuration.
I terminal of regulator connect to a 15ohm load (Lamp, make sure your lamp is in working order) and continue to the ignition switch (ACC side).
A+ terminal of the regulator connects to the battery terminal of starter relay.
S terminal of regulator connects to STA of alternator.
F terminal of regulator connects to Field terminal of alternator.
Ground should be common between the alternator and regulator.

I hope this helps you

Sorry I omitted the field wirng in the ammeter circuit. should be F terminal of regulator to field terminal of alternator.

well tore into the wiring harness and all the wires that where in it had power with the exception of one that is for the starter and of course only has power when the ign. is turned. This thing is driving me :whacked: :whacked: :whacked: giving up for tonight before i take Pro's suggestion and take a NFH to it:3dSMILE: .

See what else i can come up with tommorow,dunno...all i know is wireing SUCKS!!!;)

BG

Back up a minute. ya sure ya ain't got a generator ?????? it very well could have a generator on a 66,if it does she ain't gonna put out nuthin till ya POLARIZE it.
Now if I remember right ya disconnect the field wire from the REGULATOR and quickly touch it to the BATTERY POSITIVE. then hook her back up and see if it'll charge, if it still don't charge ya gotta remember the generator grounds thru the mounting so if they painted it clean the paint out of the bolt holes, Now if it still don't charge try grounding the field wire at the gen. or the reg.don't really matter this full fields the gen and she should put out max charge if it does ya got a bad regulator if it don't ya got a bad gen. TRY POLARIZING IT FIRST
Hope this helps.

Well if its not one thing its another:mad: still havent figured out the charging problem yet but now i have another problem!

While the car was running at idle today it started missing a bit then within about 5 min's of that it started ideling very rough and stalled. After starting it back up (was hard to start) it would barley hold an idel and when it did it the idle would vary rpms and try to die. Now it wont hardley start or idle at all:confused:

My first though was it seemed almost like a power valve but the carb is a 600 holley that was bought within the last year and i thought they changed to some kinda power valve blow out protection? plus it never really back fired through the carb.

I set the float to just under the sight plug and the press. is regulated at 3.5 psi.

any thought on this newest problem.

I think this car hates me

BG:HMMM:

My first thought would be a vacuum leak

thought the same but i checked the only 2 lines it has and they seem fine:confused:

What kid of dizzy are you running?

got a mallory with MSD blaster coil.

I took the fuel bowls off a little while ago hoping maybe i'd get lucky and find a stuck float but no dice.

Did ya check your base and intake gaskets ?

If it's a dual point the lock could be loose causing it to drift, had that problem on my Mustang.

Will check both those things in the morning

I'll try and check out the charging system on the Mustang tomorrow and see if I can come up with some ideas

Hey just before tearing into your fuel system, put in a good fully charged battery I'm picking that the engine will run just fine and that your engine problem is just low battery voltage therefor not a hot enough spark to sustain proper firing of the cylinder esspecially under load.

Now I have been following through your thread with the charging problem. First is the alternator an internal voltage regulator or an external voltage regulator ? What make serial number and amperage output is it? Allso this may sound like adumb question but the alternator was bench tested after it was rebuilt was'nt it ?

Hope this helps and good luck with the job hunting. S

Southerner it is a external regulator and the alt was bench tested after it was rebuilt. not sure of the voltage/make of the reg like you asked but i'll tryin look and see.

Plus i have 2 fresh charged batts so its not a low batt problem ethier.

NTFDAY just checked the points (was really thinking it sounded like that might be it) but nope they are tight....also dosent seem to be a base gasket problem. Dunno whats goin on but since i'm runnin out of time i have the carb off and think i will get a rebuild kit. Even though it is pretty darn new its worth a try because fuel to the carb is fine and the ignition system has been working fine and is basicly new also....so i'll tear into the carb and see what i can find..


God why didnt i take up golf:LOL:

BG

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Originally posted by BlownGoat


God why didnt i take up golf:LOL:

BG

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Then you'd hafta' take up snorkeling to retrieve you clubz'.:CRY: :CRY: :CRY:

Thats or find a way to straitin them out:eek: :LOL:


Well just put a brand new carb on it and cranked it over and still nothin. I put the timing light on each wire and had someone crank it will i made sure it was getting good spark and i noticed that it seems like its not getting a very consistant spark. Seems like it will light up a couple times in a row and then it wont fire again for like 5-8 seconds.

Sooooo it HAS to be the distrib i'm guessing:confused: i checked the points and cap/rotor and they look fine but theres nothing else it can be so i found a brand new stock distrib/coil for $45 and am going to swap them in and see whast that dose:HMMM:

its a beautiful day in da nieghborhood da nieghborhood da nieghborhood:whacked: :3dSMILE:

BG

Quote:

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Originally posted by BlownGoat


its a beautiful day in da nieghborhood da nieghborhood da nieghborhood:whacked: :3dSMILE:

BG

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Th uuuuu ................ sun 'll come out ............... toooo morrow......... bet yer' bottom dollar.

BTW: Just what iz' a bottom dollar?:confused:

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Originally posted by pro70z28


BTW: Just what iz' a bottom dollar?:confused:

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Its what i'm down to right now if this dosen't fix it:HMMM:

Drop a bowtie in it..:) :) Zoooooom.


You knew that wuz' comin' sooner or later. HE HE HE:LOL:

yeah i'm just surprised it took this long:D

actually i would if it were mine but its a car i built for my mom so i dont think she would like that to much:eek: ;)

Quote:

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Originally posted by BlownGoat
yeah i'm just surprised it took this long:D

actually i would if it were mine but its a car i built for my mom so i dont think she would like that to much:eek: ;)

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jus' put a blue oval on the valve covers !! HE HE HE:LOL:


Edit:
Now that I see that in print it doesn't seem like a good idea.:CRY:

Goat
When you get a chance pull the point plate on the mallory and underneath it you'll find a Y shaped hold down. I'm thinking that yours is loose. In the one in my Mustang the screw worked it's way out and the hold down wasn't holding down. It locks the top part of the shaft to the bottom part.

OH yeah while your at that on the points plate check that the ground wire from the plate to the distributor body is screwed down tight so theres a good earth.

One other area to check where your distributor and alternator faults have a common connection is the ignition key/switch, being an older car the rotary contacts will be worn down and will not be making much contact. You should be able to confirm it with a probe light or better yet with a digital multimeter so that you can actually measure resistance across the switch. Oh yeah have you mentioned anywhere that when the ignition is turned to the on position is the charge light on ? (asuming it does have a charge light). :rolling:

hey .... the sun did come out today .............. :) :) :) :) :)

Just thought i'd let you guys know what was going on.

NTFDAY i checked the mallory dist. and took it apart hopeing to find something loose inside it but everything seemed screwed down tight and didnt look like there were any problems in it so i dont think that was the prob.

Well spent the weekend replacing ignition parts i replaced the dist/cap/rotor/coil/wires/plugs/selonoid(sp)....tore down to the t.chain to make sure it hadnt jumped a tooth and to get the timing marks lined up. then after all that it STILL wouldnt start.

I cranked,moved the dist. a bit,cranked and repeated this process for the better part of an hour:mad: but it would not start.

I got out scratched my head and stared at the motor for a minute(that always fixes things right???:LOL: ) then as i was about to say "thats it i replaced everything!" i cranked it one last time and it fired right up!:eek: :whacked:

To be honest i have NO IDEA why it wouldnt start the whole time and why it just all the sudden decided to start but its started every time since then and i just tuned the carb and set the timing and it seems to be running pretty decent now. I still have the charging problem but the Woodward Dream Cruise is only 3 days away and i only live 1.5 miles from woodward so i think it will be ok to drive it up there and park it even without the charging system working for the time being,till i can sort that problem out.

So thanks to everyone that tried to offer help with this problem i appreciate the help guys:)

Now i've got to get back out there and get the dash put back together before saterday:whacked: :LOL:

BG