More on the Fiero IFS

It's 10 below zero this morning so I'm playing with my computer instead of working out in the garage. I just figured out how to scan photos, convert them to jpg format and save them in the right place.

I mentioned in a few previous posts that I put a Fiero IFS in my 40 Ford pickup. This was before I went digital and I shot a roll of 35mm during the process. Here's a picture of the installation before the engine was installed. As you can see the Fiero front crossmember fits the Ford frame without being cut or even disassembled. The piece of pipe across the front was welded in place before the stock front crossmember was removed and was later removed to allow the front bumper to be used.

The frame sits on the original Fiero mounting pads but the hole at the front was right on the outer edge. A new muont with wider bolt spacing was welded to the original mount at an angle to align with the frame. You can see the two new bolts on the lower right side rail.

The front cross member has two holes directly on the centerline of the spindles. The right side shows it. It's the tallest part of the spring towers. Put a straight piece of rod through these holes or tie a string across to align it with a square to a line you scribed across the frame rails before removing the old axle. With this aligned lower the frame onto the lower mounts. Measure from the right front corner of the frame to a point on the left shock tower and left to right to be sure it's centered.The upper mounts are made from 2 inch angle plate with two gussets at the top and two on the bottom. These are now bolted to the shock towers first then welded to the top of the frame rail. After this is welded you can drill the holes through the bottom mounts and bolt that in place.

The next step is to add the pivot point for the trailing edge of the lower A arm. This consists of two 3/16 plates per side These are notched to fit the the frame and weld along the side and bottom of the frame rail. I added a piece across the outside to box these mounts. This is the only part that will have to be made for a specific frame. I only have the dimensions for the35 to 40 Ford frames. But I have one of each Ford frame between 29 and 48 except for 32. These are bolted on to the A arm first before welding to the frame.

The shock mounts weren't installed when this picture was taken because I wanted to change the shocks for to the single bolt type. I had a pair of NORS shocks for a 49 to 54 Pontiac that fit right. A piece of angle plate was welded to top of the rear mount at a compound angle and gusseted.Then the Fiero unit is removed (10 bolts) to finish welding whatever couldn't be reached with it in place.

If you read this far you can see how much easier it is to install than the typical Mustang/Pinto IFS.(Or your totally confused) Besides the rack and pinion steering and disc brakes you also get the advantage of five lug wheels without buying custom rotors or wheel adaptors. This setup could make the Mustang/Pinto IFS as obsolete as the Corvair setup.Anybody remember them?

I have an extra set of mounts available if one of you guys want to be a pioneer in hot rodding. $50. Less than half the price of a Mustang/Pinto kit. I can make a universal kit where you notch your own rear mounts or when the snow melts I can fit one to a different frame.

AL

Looks interesting Al. BTW, it's 60 here in L.V.(above zero), just opened the windows for some natural ventilation.;)

What does the front track work out to? I can't tell from the angle of the photo in your gallery. Is it greater than, say, 56-58 inches?

Hey Al, does the fiero suspension need any reinforcement to fit under a sbc? Looking at these pictures may persuade me to change my way of thinking on my front end, This seems a lot simplier that the drop tube I was going to use, since it was off of a 40's truck that I have no idea what it was.

Bob can I come visit till spring?It warmed up another 25 degrees since this morning so I went out to measure the track but all I found was a hump in the snow where I last saw the truck. I'll see if I can find some Fiero specs online or in one of my shop manuals. The stock Fiero wheels fit within the 40 front fenders. They have a negative offset. If you have a wider car you could make it wider with a different offset on custom wheels.

Joker I didn't add any reinforcement to the Fiero front crossmember. It's very strong the way it is. It's already boxed on the bottom. I forget what the maximum width for the frame is and I can't get at it right now.

Here's a picture of my junk yard dog Ralph helping me carry the frame into the garage for the finish welding. He took the light end. Ralph passed away about a year ago. Some say I worked him too hard. Sure do miss that ol dog.
AL

Al,
I've been contemplating this front end since I first read about it here, have access to an 85 fiero but wondered if you could answer a couple of questions?
1- What is the frame width of your ford frame where the cross member bolts and what would be the minimum frame width in your opinion?(my old chevy is awfull narrow).
2-The bolt pattern on the hub is smaller then say a camaro or s-10, correct? Do you know of another rotor that would bolt on the spindle with the bigger pattern?
Thanks, Rob

Geez Rob, there's a lot of snow out there. I don't think the 37 Chevy frame is much narrower than the 40 Ford. If the frame does fit between the bottom mounts weld a piece to the bottom of the frame that will sit on and bolt to the Fiero mount. The 37 Chevy has a boxed frame and it may be more difficult to bolt the bottom mount to the frame. You would have to cut some access holes in the side of the frame to put nuts on.

AS for rotors, I haven't tried any others but I think if there are others that fit the spindles they would most likley be from other GM cars from the eighties like the Camaro or S10. A five bolt rotor is easier to redrill to a different bolt pattern than a 4 bolt. But I don't recall if the rotor is big enough to redrill. I would have to dig it out, jack it up and take off a wheel. According to the news it was 17 below zero last night. so I'm waiting till the end of March before I go outside again unless Bob finds room for me in Vegas.

If anyone has a Wescott's catalog they can look up the Ford frame dimensions from the diagrams in there. My catalog is up in Wa. so I'm afraid I'm not much help on this one, and they don't have this info on their web site. But Al's suggestion should work, just make sure you put gussets to any "outrigger" bracket.

Al, you're welcome to visit, but I'm only going to be here another week, so you better hurry.;)

The 35 - 40 Ford frame width is 29" at the front of the x-member, It is wider at the rear of the x-member(maybe 1/2")......Don

Its great to see someone venture from the norn! Let us know how it works out!

If Don's numbers are correct, and the fiero IFS fits the 40 that good then that perect for me, Thanks guys. Now I won't have to cut up the drop axel to get it to work.

Thanks for jogging my memory Don. It was 29" at the center of my mounts and +or- 1/2" on each end. The Fiero unit is 32" wide where it bolts to the frame. That would be widest frame it could be used on without cutting and stretching the crossmember or notching the frame.

Thanks for the invite Bob but by the time I dig out the Bentley and get my tux back from the dry cleaner I wont have time to drive there. Also have to work at dropping the Maine accent and start talking like Bond......James Bond. Ayuh!
AL

Hey Al, do you have any closer shots of how that fit on your frame? The frame I am going to be building for my rod will be about the same dimensions as that one so I would like to see what I need to fabricate to make it work

Thanks

Most of my pictures were taken after it was all painted with black rustoleum. They don't scan well. Maybe this picture of the extra 40 Ford set will help. The angle pieces are 3"X3"X3/16" angle plate cut 5 3/4" long. There's a blank one in the middle. You have to put the Axle in position put these in place and mark and drill the 7/16 holes. Bolt them on first then weld to the frame.

The other four pieces are 3/16" mild steel plate 4 1/2"X9 1/2". Yours might have to be a different size depending on the size and shape of your frame and the distance between the frame and A arm. All four are the same for the 40 Ford but if your frame has more taper in this area you may need to make 2 for the front and 2 different ones for the back. The top angle should be cut to be parallel to the shocks. The shock mount is a small piece of angle iron with gussets welded to this angle. I used a piece of poster board to make patterns for these and measured the patterns to get numbers for my cnc. But they could be cut out on a band saw. The hole size is .475. A 1/2 inch hole was too sloppy for the bolt.

I didn't show any of the gussets or the lower mount. You should put gussets wherever you can. The lower mounts are just angle iron welded on top of the original mounts and tapered down to the crossmember.

Hey Al - I could not miss your Bentley comment! Did you do a GM conversion on it? If so tell us about it......Don

Too bad Al. Selling the wagon gave me more room here so you could pahk the cah. And Don, you're welcome too. Although I'd need to know what kind of tea to get for you guys to have with your afternoon crumpets. :LOL: Next you know we'll need a British car forum too. :)

The Bentley is still all original. Not because I like it that way. I had to rebuild the two master cylinders and the six wheel cylinders. Two on each front wheel and one each on the rear. It took me over 40 hours to do and the brakes are still scary. The PO tried it and said they were better than they had ever been. It has to be the worst engineered brake system ever. The brake pedal activates a servo on the side of the transmission. The servo works the brakes IF the car is in gear. otherwise you just have mechanical brakes at the rear only. There is a delay between stepping on the brake and the brake taking hold. You have to anticipate how much brake pressure to use.
I was told that the V8 was designed by GM for Rolls/Bentley. It has two tempermental SU carburetors.
I wish I was brave enough to do what you're doing with the Rolls. The Bentley requires constant maintenance.
Now that it's drivable the PO want's to buy it back. He's a Brit and brought it over From England when he moved here. It was kicking around several garages who were supposed to fix the brakes and tune the Carbs but they all backed out when they saw what they were up against. He got an estimate for $3000 to fix the brakes by a shop that knew what it consisted of. I thought they were trying to rip him off till I got into it. I restored an Aston Martin for him a few years ago. And told him if he ever wanted to sell the Bentley to let me know. I really didn't think he would ever sell it. I caught him at the right time but now he regrets selling it as much as I regret buying it. I'm pretending to love it till we make a deal.
I have a question for you Don. I saw the picture of your model A with the welder next to it. When are you going to chop that thing? 4 to 6 inches would be about right.
AL

Bob my favorite tea is Micheloeb light.

Al, I'm reminded of a bumper sticker put out quite a few years ago by Richard M. Langworth, noted automotive author and Anglophile. It said something like, " The parts falling off of this car are of the finest British craftsmanship".

Our refrigerator is normally well stocked with barley pop.

Hey Al - I agree The hydraulic system on these cars are a nightmare. The cost of the parts to fix my Shadow's brakes was $5000. thus, I went the conversion route. I used the Hydro boost from a 85 Cad Seville.
Sounds like your brake system was like the one on my Silver Dawn(sold).
BTW your car will fit on a large GM frame i.e. 85 Buick,pont,olds.

happy motoring Don

Hey Bob - thats very appropriate......It's the challenge of keeping those parts working that makes it fun.
How's the garage progressing? I been enjoying your car I.D thread.

Hey Don, I have an 85 Pontiac wagon minus the engine that was going to be stripped and junked. I think if I told my British buddy my plan he might get violent.

Yea do it! -I belong to the RROC & they will not let me post anything regaurding replacing a RR part w/a US part
However, I get a lot of private messages asking questions especially on conversion to GM brakes.
Most Roller owners are purist which, makes it fun to do a conversion........Happy Motoring

They probably don't want to know that I bought the rubber brake parts from Napa for a couple of dollars. All the cylinders were American standard sizes.

The chop will come when I finsh the RR. I already have the front post cut(3") but got sidetracked w/the Rolls. I'll have it done for the 03 nationals.
I loved the lines of your Studebaker....one of the most beautifull cars I've seen. Don
Ps did you drop the windshield down into the cowl?

If you want to fix the brakes your self ,here is a easy way that gives better brakes than when the Bently was when new.

You use a hydraboost from a 1985 Cad Seville. To do this - weld a 3" brake lever (vertically down) to the brake petal pivot. Weld a brk to the rat trap to hold the hydro unit - run hydraulic lines from the ps pump,first to the ps then to the hydaboost. Use two return line that Y into 1 then back to the pump. I think I used a vette master cyl........prepare to hold on when you apply the brakes.

I might try that when the snow melts. Did you use a proportioning valve in the system or just hook the brake lines directly to the master cylinder?

I used a corvette adjustable valve just because I had one . I bought It at a vette swap meet in Columbus Ohio around 20 yrs aqo........Don

Great ideas come from these pages... I currently have a 66 Chevy Van I-beam under the 1931' Chevy Tub and it looks like the Fiero would be a better decision...

Al do you have the measurements between the 2 OEM Fiero plates that bolt to the frame?, ill measure the 31' frame in the AM and get back to this page then..

My TUB can be seen here:

http://www.ammoman.com/chevy

Let the first page load (its in FLASH and kinda slow)

Lotta pages and pictures.. ENJOY!

Best Regards
Rob Cummings

Hey Rob, How goes the healing? Hope you are able to start working on the rod again, I really want to see the final results.

Quote:

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Originally posted by joker51
Hey Rob, How goes the healing? Hope you are able to start working on the rod again, I really want to see the final results.

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Slow but sure.. Leg looks better I actually find out tomorrow 5-19 if I can start applying pressure then comes alot of bike riding to build up the leg muscles and walk again.. picture having your leg never touching the ground for 6 months.. You lose muscle unless theres a way to exercise it, In my case I cant exercise too much or I keep moving the bone and it wont heal

Good thing is now I can tell its alot better.. applying pressure just to hold me upright doesnt hurt like it did a few months back..

Not that it stops me.. Don my neighbor has a yard full of chevy's 55-56-57, and like 6 Monte Carlos, Buick GS, 70 Cutlass so theres always something to fix or strip..

Were currently stripping a T-Top 86 Monte that has the trans and engine for my 31', He gets all the interior pieces and body panels for his car..

I get the drivetrain for mine.. (turns out my red chevy block had a damn crack in it)

I take out the interior.. he pulls the motor/trans..
works out good for both of us..

Last thing is the power steering or manual boxes I can pull from either.. gotta make that Van i beam TURN before any motor stuff can go in place..

"Grab a wrench and meet me in the garage"

Rob

Hey Rob
Manchesta Cow Hampsha is just down the road a piece. The Fiero is 32 inches wide at the mounting plates. Put that old I beam on ebay and get the Fiero front end under your rod. It'll ride better, stop better and sit lower in front.
AL

Hmm a piece.. Maine is HUGE !, Could be a few minutes or a days trip from this place.. Portland?, Augusta?

I used to travel alot.. probably went right by your house and didnt even know it !

I read your profile and visited your website.. COOL

I wanted to put "1929 to 1935 Chevy Parts" in the box on the website but figured I would post it here and you would get the email anyways..

Heres mine.. Pay no attention to the name.. website was FREE !

http://www.nhlotteryonline.com
and
http://www.ammoman.com/chevy
for the car...

Its mostly ME and my past rides/projects etc..

Like I said.. Gotta get off my sticks and hop out to the garage.., Measure that thing up for some Fiero front suspension !
(currently on crutches from car accident, Lets say my lawyer is VERY HAPPY when he found that it was an 18 wheeler ran me off the highway and it was owned by a major trucking company)

Rob

Local bar sign reads "FREE BEER TOMORROW"
(the sign is always there so tomorrow never comes)

Well Rob, Hope your up and about soon.
And I posted on the Chevy board wanting to know which piston you needed again. Finally got my block torn down and couldn't remember if it was the #7 or 8 you asked me for.
So what are you gonna do with all the "old" parts from the cracked block? I am looking at replacing my crank and cam as the ones I have are a little pitted and really don't trust the machine shops around here.
But again take care and glad to hear your almost back in the garage.

Hi Rob
I'm in fryeburg Maine. It's right next to Conway N.H.I'm about two miles from the border. It's convenient because the gas and beer are cheaper in N.H. and I don't have to return the empty cans.
Too bad about your accident but at least you have a hefty settlement coming. It should help out when you get back to Evelyn. Those old Chevies are hard to find because they were framed in wood and fell apart when the wood rotted. Is that why you cut Evelyn down or did you just want a tub?

Evelyn was really bad in all areas anywhere from 6" off the rockers.. If you look at the rear fenders on the site you can see that a coathanger held on the left rear fender ON connecting it to the bumper// remove that and it fell off..

Fenders in front?.. Fair to someone who had NOTHING.. Good for maybe fiberglas mold plugs but thats IT..

That and after seeing Norm Grabowskies KOOKIE 2 the idea came for a fenderless TUB because the drip rail on the car was thin also.., Visor held up AOK but filler above it was real thin.. (SOLD)

So gave it a 4" roof chop.. trimmed all the edges.. VIOLA

I actually like the new shape

A hardtop roof will be made later for those sunny beach cruizes, Of course Real Real LOW and flat on the top..

I have some pics of a friends 29 Ford Tub somewhere.... Its also LOOKING GREAT !

Ill see if i can find them.. Hes not an online person so....

:D

Rob

Robs 31' TUB

Good luck finding rotors for the Fiero IFS Al. I put this IFS under my '38 Plymouth and found out I couldn't use the Boyd Coddington wheels with it so I had to go back to the ever popular Mustang II. I couldn't find rotors for the Fiero and they were too small to redrill to the 4 3/4" bolt pattern. I did find some adapters to fit them, but the wheels stuck out past the fenders with the adapters. You are right though, this is a great IFS. I believe this could be the frontend of the future if somebody would make some aftermarket parts for it. Maybe we could get together and make the parts and corner the market.:rolleyes: :LOL: Of course this was 5 years ago when I did this and parts may be available now. Good Luck!!!