Progress on the bus . . .

There are several runs planned for the fairly immediate future: a trip to Tony Wass' place for New Year, (Hastings, NSRA,) the Mavericks' AGM, (Paekakariki, near Wgtn,) Beach Hop, (Whangamata, Coromandel,) and hopefully Muscle Car Madness, (Rangiora, near Christchurch.)
So there's a few thousand miles for it to do.

Where I struck it lucky with getting its designation changed was that the blokes at VTNZ were a) interested in the bus itself and the story behind it, and b) they were not bureaucrats; but honest practical working folk who could see an anomaly and had the knowledge and nous as to how to rectify it!
I was very lucky.

I will be getting in contact with the Fair Go team; they were instrumental in getting a stalled project kick-started back in to life, and I'm beholden to them for that.

And many thanks to you folk on CHR for your support and encouragement over the last seven years or so, its been appreciated!

Thanks!

It's almost anti-climatic in some ways..

And just how many inspections does it need to go through? I thought I had it tough.. sheesh!

I'm thinking that you folks "over there" that have the determination and grit to follow it through and get a vehicle built and on the road.. you've got the fever bad and I salute you all!

Pictures of the bus, and a close up of the Elephant logo on the back, along with a covering letter have been sent to the Fair Go programme.

An electrician mate, Richard Cardiff, has come out and installed all the interior lights, wiring, and relevant switches/fuses et cetera.

Seatbelts are installed, and blinds and curtains are ordered.
I've yet to suss out the water system, fresh, grey, and black, and where / how to empty/fill them...waiting for a fine day to do that.
Also still have to get the water system certified as self contained, but with it in the position it is now, I can say with relative certainty where we can have it to be certified on a given day.
So we can get that underway.

All good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnboy

Pictures of the bus, and a close up of the Elephant logo on the back, along with a covering letter have been sent to the Fair Go programme.

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Good news on the communication with Fair Go, and I predict a follow-up program(me) early in their next taping season. They'd be fools not to do at least a short spot on it to let everyone know.

Also glad to hear that the lights & switches are in & functioning! Bob's your uncle now, mate!

We need to see some pictures of the finished interior now that it's coming together! Maybe Rosie will take some, get them onto your computer and we can walk through the posting process to get you picture fluent....

Sounds great to hear progress for you with little set backs. Keep at it!

Thanks for the kind words.

Roger: that sounds like a go to me; but perhaps not in the immediate future.
The garden is getting away from me a bit, the spuds need digging, half an hour daily spent picking broad beans, I need to build a new frame for my runner beans, I still haven't found that alkathene pipe, and there are events on all over the place that I wish to attend, and the lawns will always need mowing!
So I'm as busy as a dog burying a bone in a marble floor.

Plus the bits and pieces I'm still attending to with the bus.
I've just this morning made a new bracket for the hubmeter, the one that was on there was such that it had to be removed before the rim could come off.
Imagine trying to change a tyre in pouring rain and having to remove two bolts by turning them one face at a time!
Nah...that had to go.

But we are getting there now; progress may be slow...but it's all progress!

I'm starting to enjoy this build again now.

:) :) :) :)

Had a couple of kids come out a week or so ago to interview me for an article in the local paper.
Neither of them were mechanically minded so I was looking forward to the article with some trepidation, wondering what sort of a pigs-ear they'd make of it.
Well they didn't!
But mea culpa; I must admit to them doing a far better job than I had envisaged; they covered all salient facts in a compact manner...very impressed with the job they did.
So here's a link to the whole article:

Lessons learned in school bus conversion | Stuff.co.nz

I've been a bit lax on posting progress here; but its been slow but steady.
The bus is now totally legal now with a Self Containment Certification (SCC) sticker on it and everything, so that's all good.
I'm halfway through changing the entry point (plug) for mains power, where it was has proved to be inconvenient and space-wasting.
All curtains and venetian blinds are fitted, seat belts mounted to their brackets and with Velcro straps to keep them out of the way when not in use...and a whole raft of other little things that are purely cosmetic, but will make it that bit more 'liveable'.

Yep: I'm enjoying it again!

:) :) :)

Great story, Johnboy!!! The bus looks great in the pics, too! Also, Great pic of you! Congrats!!!:)

Yep, the local boys did it up right for their paper, jb! The bus is looking fantastic, and I really like those American flag curtains! They're a perfect addition, and are very well done, too, along with the blinds. I expect that the good people in and around Billings, OK are beaming with pride, assuming that you've seen fit to send them that link. I must say, one of the biggest surprises for me was YOU'VE GOT EARS!! A roadside shot from last October, jb & Rosie (SWMBO).....

Attachment 63093

Given your story telling and writing ability John, you probably spoon fed those kids the info they needed in a way that made their job easier........nice piece.
And of course the bus is FINALLY getting to where you can enjoy it. Congrats.........

Great write up & ya even got a hair cut, lolol.
But I have to ask John, just how long is a donkey's year????

Yep; I've got ears. I'm quite attached to them too surprisingly.
And yes; I've had a hair cut.
More of a shearing actually.
I (usually) have a shear every summer, wether (spelling intended,) I need it or not.
The Cancer Society want human hair with a minimum staple length of six inches to use for wigs for chemotherapy patients, so I give it to them.

I let it grow long over winter because it's easier than wearing a woolly cap to keep my head warm, and I don't have to go looking for it every time I want to go outdoors.
But over the summer months it's just too hot; so off it comes.

And thanks for the kind words too people, you lot know all the mucking around I've had to contend with during this build; so kind words from you people mean a helluva lot more to me than all the trite words in a newspaper article ever could.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TooMany2count

Great write up & ya even got a hair cut, lolol.
But I have to ask John, just how long is a donkey's year????

---

Dunno mate.
It's a colloquialism meaning an awful long time.

(That's the trouble with you Americans; you don't speak the English language as we Kiwis do!)

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

And we don't get photographed for the paper wearing leapord print suspenders either! :eek::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:**)**)

Nice write up Johnboy! It's nice to see and hear you're getting so close to being done and can finally get to the best part. Enjoying it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 34_40

And we don't get photographed for the paper wearing leapord print suspenders either! :eek::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:**)**)

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(Shrugs shoulders.)
Not a problem to me mate.
That's the way She Who Must Be Obeyed dresses me every morning.
It's who I am.

So if you have a problem with it, I would suggest that you're the one with the problem. :HMMM:
Not me.

:D :D :D

(Just kidding ya...don't get septic...:D )

That's a nice writeup, Johnboy, and the bus is looking great. Also, good on ya' for the hair thing.
.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnboy

(Shrugs shoulders.)
Not a problem to me mate.
That's the way She Who Must Be Obeyed dresses me every morning.
It's who I am.

So if you have a problem with it, I would suggest that you're the one with the problem. :HMMM:
Not me.

:D :D :D

(Just kidding ya...don't get septic...:D )

---

All smiles over here Boss! Just had to take a poke at the bear ya know?

We put a higher ratio diff (lower numbers,) 3.42:1 in the bus because at 90kph (55mph) the motor was revving way too high. (Being classed as an hgv 55mph is the fastest I'm supposed to be allowed to drive on NZ roads.)
Now, at 55 mph I'm revving around 12-1500rpm. Quite satisfactory; I'm happy with that.
But...I have inadvertently exaggerated/exacerbated the differences between 2nd and 3rd, and 3rd and 4th.
Revving too high in 2nd, change up, and too low in 3rd, too high in 3rd, change, and too low in 4th.
So...I decided to split the shifts with a Gear Vendors under/overdrive transmission in the driveshaft.

But; which transmission would suit my application?
So I went to their site:
https://www.gearvendors.com/cg2wdt.html
And decided that the NV4500 would appear to be the best bet for me.
But am I right in this assumption?
I'm not familiar with these things; and I'd hate to get it here (and paid for...ouch!) only to find it's just not right for what I want.
There are an awful lot of people on here who know an awful lot more than I do; and who's opinions I respect...so what do you fellas think?
Am I right?
Or am I wrong?

Help!

(Please?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnboy

We put a higher ratio diff (lower numbers,) 3.42:1 in the bus because at 90kph (55mph) the motor was revving way too high. (Being classed as an hgv 55mph is the fastest I'm supposed to be allowed to drive on NZ roads.)
Now, at 55 mph I'm revving around 12-1500rpm. Quite satisfactory; I'm happy with that.
But...I have inadvertently exaggerated/exacerbated the differences between 2nd and 3rd, and 3rd and 4th.
Revving too high in 2nd, change up, and too low in 3rd, too high in 3rd, change, and too low in 4th.
So...I decided to split the shifts with a Gear Vendors under/overdrive transmission in the driveshaft.

But; which transmission would suit my application?
So I went to their site:
https://www.gearvendors.com/cg2wdt.html
And decided that the NV4500 would appear to be the best bet for me.
But am I right in this assumption?
I'm not familiar with these things; and I'd hate to get it here (and paid for...ouch!) only to find it's just not right for what I want.
There are an awful lot of people on here who know an awful lot more than I do; and who's opinions I respect...so what do you fellas think?
Am I right?
Or am I wrong?

Help!

(Please?)

---

Hi Johnboy! Remind me which engine/trans you have in there.....you did a chassis swap onto a Chevy truck of some kind didn't you? It sounds to me like you might have gone too far with your rear diff. gears. If you're only running 1200-1500rpms at 55mph pulling that kind of weight, it's probably lugging and has no power especially if you encounter any kind of grade change in the roadway. What were your original gears? What were the rpms that you considered too high revving? I read somewhere that the small block Ford engines, for example, cruise most efficiently between 2000 & 2200rpms. Maybe there's a similar optimum for your engine. Those GearVendor things aren't cheap. I'm wondering if it might be more cost effective to find a better compromise in the rear diff gears....

jb, I think that Randy's on target here, and just to clarify when we look at the Gearvendors site and run down their list in the various transmissions that they list we're selecting the right Gearvendors unit to match up with the tranny we have in the vehicle. Are you considering changing out the tranny, and then adding a Gearvendors unit behind it?$$$$$? I'm a bit confused with the options you're considering.

I'd think that your 6 liter Vortec would be a lot happier cruising at right around 2000rpm when at your desired cruising speed in 5th gear, plus you'll be up on your torque curve more where you'll have some power for the hills & curves without downshifting. Lugging it down to 1200-1500rpm is going to be hard on the lower end, and will tend to load up on you over time.

I've got a little spreadsheet that I built for my Tremec TKO that let me see the speeds in each gear across the rpm range, based on the tranny ratios, rear end gear, and tire circumference. The real test is what feels right in the vehicle, selecting your shift points, but it helped me to get a feeling for what I would experience based on the numbers, before spending a dime. Like Randy asked, what's your tranny, and also what's your tire circumference?

Oops!
I wrote my previous post last night, had a beer or two, went to bed, and whilst awaiting sleep thought "Bugger! I didn't put enough information in that post!"
Tyre size is 225/75 R16.
Engine is Chev 400 ci Vortec, purchased as a new crate motor 2013.
Gearbox is 5 sp manual with electric speedometer. I've crawled under the bus, gone through my invoices, but can find nothing to actually identify it so that I could identify the ratios in it.

At those revs in top (5th) gear the engine isn't labouring and is very responsive, put the boot in and it launches instantly, there's absolutely no lag...it feels right.
For sure, I have to flick it between 5th and 4th fairly often; but that's not a problem, and at those revs in 5th I've got fuel economy.
So I'm happy with revs/ratios in top gear, it's 2nd/3rd, and 3rd/4th that is the worry.
That's the reasoning behind wishing to split those shifts, and still retain the lower revs in 5th.

Maybe give Coxy a ring and see if he can ID that tranny for you? Or maybe the fellow you bought the package from, assuming you got the crate engine & tranny together? Once you ID the tranny we can run some numbers on shift points vs rpm and see what works best for you.

I'd really be surprised if you didn't see an increase in your MPG by boosting your rpm up to the 1800 to 2000 range at cruise, and it would eliminate a lot of your downshifts, too.

I've been mullin' this over for a couple hours now... and if were mine, I'd probably track down a 2 speed rear end.

Not sure how popular they were down under.. but there's always another angle right!?!?

Johnboy, as far as I know, the chevy gas engines had NV4500's in them up until 2007 in a light truck. The diesels had a ZF6 behind them. Are you stuck on a manual trans? An Allison 1000 series 6 speed would be a nice trans for you. GM had them behind 8.1's in some motorhomes but they were mainly behind duramxes. The gear splits are nice on it and would fit your bus pretty nice I bet.

John,
I think Ryan is right about the NV4500. I pulled the ratios from Wikipedia for GM, '94 and later; and got your tire OD from Tire Rack. Running the numbers shows 1575 RPM at 55MPH in 5th, which is a bit low IMO, but may not be critically low.

What does come out is that your low gear is pretty much a Granny gear at 5.61 to 1, and second is still pretty low at 3.44 to 1.

If you say that 3500 is a good shift RPM you're only getting to 16mph in 1st, 26mph in 2nd, then taking it to 52mph in 3rd where you'd skip to 5th and drop down to 1575rpm.

If you went up to a 3.73 those shift point values would only drop a bit, to 15, 24, 48, 82, and top speed at 3500 of 112mph with no consideration for air resistance ;); and your cruise rpm at 55mph would be 1717rpm.

With the GearVendors information we could plug in a 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 and double OD for the Chevy tranny numbers if it would help. The ones that they quote are Dodge values - close, but not exact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 34_40

I've been mullin' this over for a couple hours now... and if were mine, I'd probably track down a 2 speed rear end.

Not sure how popular they were down under.. but there's always another angle right!?!?

---

Mike, the GearVendors unit is basically just an external 2 speed differential that fits between the tranny & the differential - lets you have an OD for every gear, but clutchless operation which is kind of a neat feature.

I also found out that ZF6's were put behind the 8.1's as well. The ZF6 has another gear between 3 and 4 with 5th being direct and 6th being OD. That 3-4 split on NV4500's is a big one on all the ones I've driven.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rspears

Mike, the GearVendors unit is basically just an external 2 speed differential that fits between the tranny & the differential - lets you have an OD for every gear, but clutchless operation which is kind of a neat feature.

---

Yes, I know. I've driven many small trucks with a 2 spd rear axle. Most were small sized big block gas motors. And I never used a clutch unless at a stop sign or light.

Once proficient, gear selection happens with a "blip" of the throttle.

I also agree that Ryans selection is probably the most practical - and once in place easier than any other selection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 34_40

I've been mullin' this over for a couple hours now... and if were mine, I'd probably track down a 2 speed rear end.

Not sure how popular they were down under.. but there's always another angle right!?!?

---

I tried to reply to you lot this morning, but the little blue jelly-fish just went whizzy-whizzy around in circles and nothing happened...so I gave up after six or seven minutes. ( The time it takes me to have a ciggy.)
Two speed Eaton diffs were on pretty well every larger (over three or four tons,) truck I drove, with Road-Ranger 'type' three speed boxes on things getting up around the fifteen twenty ton (or more,) mark.
I drove milk-tankers (getting up around forty tons,) for more years than I care to remember, so yes; they're available in NZ, and that thought had occurred to me too.
The problem here is that if I fitted a new axle, I would also have to fit new (possibly larger,) rims.
That would require re-certification, as this vehicle, although only a Tonka toy of around three tons, is classified 'Heavy Goods Vehicle, (hgv) under NZTA rules, and any changes of that nature would require their involvement...and I don't want to get involved with those bastards ever again!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 40FordDeluxe

Johnboy, as far as I know, the chevy gas engines had NV4500's in them up until 2007 in a light truck. The diesels had a ZF6 behind them. Are you stuck on a manual trans? An Allison 1000 series 6 speed would be a nice trans for you. GM had them behind 8.1's in some motorhomes but they were mainly behind duramxes. The gear splits are nice on it and would fit your bus pretty nice I bet.

---

Manual, for me, is pretty well mandatory...with a manual box you drive the machine.
With an automatic...you just go along for the ride.
Boring.
I'm a driver.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 40FordDeluxe

I also found out that ZF6's were put behind the 8.1's as well. The ZF6 has another gear between 3 and 4 with 5th being direct and 6th being OD. That 3-4 split on NV4500's is a big one on all the ones I've driven.

---

So what you're saying, is that even with the Gearvendors' NV4500 the third to fourth shift is still revs too high to revs too low?
Did I get this right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnboy

The problem here is that if I fitted a new axle, I would also have to fit new (possibly larger,) rims.
That would require re-certification, as this vehicle, although only a Tonka toy of around three tons, is classified 'Heavy Goods Vehicle, (hgv) under NZTA rules, and any changes of that nature would require their involvement...and I don't want to get involved with those bastards ever again!

---

I did remember that you drove trucks and probably a 2 spd was in your history.. hence the desire to "split shifts". And getting "the MAN" involved again is certainly distatsteful! (Danged Elephants! :eek::LOL: )

SO, that brings us back the O.D. and Ryans suggestion. Or, just live with it as is!:o

John,
To clarify, the table you see on GearVendors is for one of their units hooked behind a NV4500. Before you go too far you need to be dead sure what tranny you've got or you may be a sad pup when it's all done.

The GV unit is going to almost split the difference you have now between 3rd & 4th, with a ratio around 1.30 to one. In the table I sent you by e-mail that will add shift point MPH values of 49, 59, 69, 78, 98 and 118 for each of the RPM values on the left for a new 3OD-4 shift point, so at 2500rpm you'd be at 37 in 3rd, 49 in the new 3OD, and 64 in 4th. Given your legal limit, you'd run through the gears up through your new 3OD, then as you shift into 4th you'd only accelerate to about 2200rpm and be at 55MPH, then drop down to 5th to maintain speed and drop your rpm's to just below 1600. You're still operating fairly low in your power band, but you seem to be OK with that. At 55mph you're at 1575 in 5th, 1675 in new 4OD, 2200 in 4th, 2800 in 3OD, 3650 in 3rd, but almost 6000 in the new 2OD. That says you can cruise easily in 3rd up to 5th. I'd say that's a lot of options, but I'd venture a guess that you won't use your new 5thOD (double OverDrive) much, as you'll be down at 1250rpm at 55mph.

BTW, your new 2OD to 3 shift point MPH will be 18, 27, 32, 37, 46 and 55 at the rpm's in the table, which helps split the wide gap there now.

Aha!
Suddenly it clicks!
You've got to remember that you're talking to one of the dumbest fellas on the planet here...a brain that's as thick as pig s##t, and with taste that's twice as nasty.
This weekend is Queen's Birthday weekend; so Monday is a National holiday.
I'll see if I can contact either Coxy or Dave Green (from whom I bought the motor and box,) to see if I can get identification on Tuesday.

Thanks for the tables Roger, and I think you're correct in the assumption about 5th gear high ratio...
I'd need to rename it Jefferson.
(As in airplane.)

I rang Coxy last night...no joy...he confirmed that I'd dealt directly with Dave Green over the purchase of the motor and box, so he has no paperwork for any of it.
Bugger!
Neither have I.
I paid all bills for the bus from my personal account; and all papers relevant to it were filed in a separate folder.
Then...I wonder...did I for some reason pay this account from our business account?
A quick flick through my diary said it would've been in the last quarter of 2011.
She Who Must Be Obeyed handles all the business accounts, so She dug out the relevant files...and there, on 21st December 2011 was an invoice and receipt for...NV4500 man. 5sp. trans.
Yeeha!
My account must've been running a bit low at that point for some reason, and we'd paid it out of another account.
But the mystery is solved.

So thanks for the input people; I think I can order that Gearvendor trans now!
And pay for it out of my personal account this time!

So do you expect that Coxy will get the task of installing the GearVendor unit behind the NV4500? I'd think he would be a good choice, but just wondering. It's also a bit of a hike over to his place from yours....

Coxy would be a good choice, actually, he'd be my preferred choice, because I know the quality of his work.
(And he's a bloody good bloke too...I like the man; but don't tell him I said that!)
But it's not really a major undertaking from what I've sussed from the Gearvendor's site; two to three hours work, and we do have competent engineers locally who would be perfectly capable of this sort of thing.
So I think we'll opt to get it done at Pete Moller's place in New Plymouth.

I'd agree with the two to three hours, other than having to get the driveshaft shortened and replacing the front yoke to fit. And then there's the electrical, powering the SV circuit, and routing and mounting the control button. Not a big job at all, and they make it very simple if one reads the directions. Just have to remember to change the fluid in the GV unit when you change the oil in the engine, for a long, trouble free life with a ten speed!

After a bit of mucking around (and a few phone calls; New Zealand is NOT Nigeria!) I finally got the Gear Vendors unit ordered, and it's on its way.
Whew!