Sudden problem, truck dies at idle and some black smoke from the exhaust

So typically its a spark issue being im getting fuel in the combustion chamber. The truck just started dying out at idle, no sputtering just a very calm shut down.

So I noticed that one plug wire ended up being loose, fixed that still the same issue. I needed to do plugs in it and when I pulled them I found them to be pretty black, but more disturbing as I was pulling the plug the boots are being burnt by the exhaust. So the headers are hooker headers, the plug wires are almost completely up against the exhaust. Im guessing this may be causing the spark failure. The current boots come straight up, im looking at going with the 90 degree boots. This still puts the plug wire close to the exhaust though.

The boots arent burnt down near the plug so I dont know that it would cause this but its still an issue. Here are a few of the boot protectors I found, any experience with any of these anyone?
http://www.summitracing.com/search/?...rotector&dds=1
Heres some pics of the issue at hand. Note the plug wire is not on the plug here so im aware of that:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...3/4b3332bb.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...3/74ab02ea.jpg

and the truck
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...3/ba8df666.jpg

Nice Truck !!! And yes you will need the 90 boots and route the wires under the headers. Also I think its Accell that makes a shorty spark plug that may help,although I've never been to proud of Accell products.

Thanks! The 41 Willys always has been one of my favorites, im really fortunate to have been able to pick this one up, but im always looking around so its no surprise I found one eventually.

Ive never really dealt with accell, my distributor is a mallory however there seems to be a slight gash in the cap as well. Its not cracked and im guessing that at some point it came loose while being driven one day by the previous owner.

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Originally Posted by HWORRELL

Nice Truck !!! And yes you will need the 90 boots and route the wires under the headers. Also I think its Accell that makes a shorty spark plug that may help,although I've never been to proud of Accell products.

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Oh also this is a 350 SBC, im assuming all the distributors are in the exact same spot so plug wire length shouldnt be an issue? I have no idea what this thing came out of either.

The accell 'shorty' plugs are really autolight racing plugs that you can get at half the price of what accell sells them for.
Is that a cast iron head? then ngk are 5673-8 are what you'd want, they're short race plugs too but cost maybe $18 a set. Accell gets above $40!
Nice truck! Get yourself a set of taylor 90deg spirowound for that smallblock, you won't regret paying the money and they have the smallest boot for the most clearance and the unmade (do-it-yourself set) are long enough that you can run them under the header as others have advised.

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Originally Posted by ojh

The accell 'shorty' plugs are really autolight racing plugs that you can get at half the price of what accell sells them for.
Is that a cast iron head? then ngk are 5673-8 are what you'd want, they're short race plugs too but cost maybe $18 a set. Accell gets above $40!
Nice truck! Get yourself a set of taylor 90deg spirowound for that smallblock, you won't regret paying the money and they have the smallest boot for the most clearance and the unmade (do-it-yourself set) are long enough that you can run them under the header as others have advised.

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Yea I saw those, they are also steel braided. $165 made my tail end pucker a bit.

There are plug wire protectors that you can slide on and then wire tie to the plug wires.
Spark Plug Boot Protectors - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop

Like mentioned, get some plug wires that you can cut to length yourself. Run them down and under the headers. Use some of those rubber coated wiring loom clips and locate them next to the block somewhere. You would only need 2 or 3 on each side. You can get them that will hold multiple wires.

Yea I was taking a look at routing them under the exhaust. Unfortunately the way the header is that won't be possible. I'll be making sure though when I get these new wires that they stay clear of the pipes.

This truck has overall been running so good. In fact I had been driving it almost daily this past month including those 100 degree days we had, had the ac on full blast too. My goal was to put the truck through a test to ensure all the little gremlins are out.

So hopefully these wires solve my problem.

Just wanted to say...........very nice truck.!!!!.........have always loved the Willys whether it's a truck or a coupe.

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Originally Posted by 1923tbucket

Yea I saw those, they are also steel braided. $165 made my tail end pucker a bit.

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Stay away from the steel braided, they'll short and light you up if you get near them with the engine running. Bad ju-ju.
What i use is the 'spiro pro' 8mm 90deg boot for sbc, they go about about $75ish maybe less and if you can't run them down under the header there is a billet rail - 2piece - that i use with great success. The rail is sold by many different people, i use 'RPC', but the wires are clamped into place and very small amount is exposed, so they don't shift with heat. I used them on an elcamino with headers just like yours and when giving it a tune up a year later i didn't have to replace the plug wires. I am the worlds worst skeptic, but i use that 2 piece rail system whenever i do an enginebay and tuneup now.
Shoot me a pm if you need part numbers.

Sweet thanks for the suggestion!

It will be interesting to see if your stalling out problem is just burned wire boots. Sounds more like a carb issue to me, like maybe a bad vacuum idle pulloff valve, or a bad idle solenoid that kicks in with the AC? You mentioned driving a lot on 100+ days with the AC blasting. Let us know what you find when you change out the wires & plugs.

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Originally Posted by rspears

It will be interesting to see if your stalling out problem is just burned wire boots. Sounds more like a carb issue to me, like maybe a bad vacuum idle pulloff valve, or a bad idle solenoid that kicks in with the AC? You mentioned driving a lot on 100+ days with the AC blasting. Let us know what you find when you change out the wires & plugs.

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Kinda what i was thinking too, like plug wires etc are part of the problem and the carb is doing something stupid too like dribbling raw fuel into the engine.

Yea the plugs were kinda dark but that may have been because of that issue. It had never smoked or run all that rich before. Just a sudden problem. The one wire was burnt into the core

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Originally Posted by 1923tbucket

Yea the plugs were kinda dark but that may have been because of that issue. It had never smoked or run all that rich before. Just a sudden problem. The one wire was burnt into the core

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Yeah, but that one wire burnt would at worst create a miss either under load, or if totally burned even at idle. I'm pretty sure you've got some type of fuel thing going on. I'd look at any type of dashpot or solenoid that you might have that affects idle related to the AC first, and if nothing there then something that's changed in the carb idle circuit or float level.

I agree with Roger. My first thought was what is the fuel pressure (if a carb?) , what's the float settings? Just replaced the fuel filter? If not, how old is it?

Black smoke is a to rich mixture, 1 or 2 fouled plugs don't usually cause black smoke.

Well heres where I lack expertise. It is carbed but I havent put a gauge on the rail. I know the pump is working good, I've just done the fuel filter. This is what gets me. I've been driving the truck for almost a month now in all ranges of temps and it starts right up with no hesitation. So why now something is different I'm not sure.

All the plugs looked pretty bad, I have no idea how long they had been in there but I'm guessing awhile. Then I found that the distributor cap has a gash inside it now as well, it's not cracked though. How I have no idea.

Secondly this is a 750 carb, granted the motor is .30 over with a mild cam I'm wondering if this is to much? Maybe it's fouling the plugs with to much fuel and I'm just looking at it to hard.

I've never dealt much with having to adjust or troubleshoot carbs so this is a new one to me.

Seems to me that your carb is over-sized. I would think that a nominal 600cfm would be more suited to your 350 +0.030 engine. Sure, you can jet the 750 down, but as you jet it down you're looking at reduced air velocity in your venturi, which is going to affect efficiency. Is this a new-to-you truck, or one that you built or have had for a long period?

This is a new to me truck and I didnt get a thing on documentation. So its all figure it out.

Again, I agree with Roger. A 750 wouldn't have been my first choice... many folks make a 750 work on their SBC's so there's no reason you can't - unless you've never done this kind of work before! In that case I'd suggest you find someone local or prepare yourself for a learning curve.

With some patience and a reference manual, I'm sure you can set the tune-up where it works as desired. Fix the ignition system first, you can't sort out a carb with a suspect ignition!

Yea I have my ignition parts being delivered from summit tomorrow. I'm pretty incline and can learn. I would love to learn about dialing carbs in. I tuned in my 600 holley on my mustang a few years back but not much more than that. As for mechanical experience I designed and installedmy own turbo kit for my daily driver back in 04.

I started off doing body work on an 86 celebrity in high school, Ive swapped engines, rear ends, transmissions.... The usual. But I grew up around the street rod shows in York pa. My dad took me every year, I can still remember dreaming of owning one. However mechanical skill doesn't run in my family, so everything I've done I taught myself by failing or learning through forums like here. It's been a long road but so much fun, I don't regret a bit life's to short.

Ok well upon dealing with the plug and wire issue the thing is still running horribly. So I started with inspecting the carb, I found one leak where the fuel line connected to the carb and fixed it. I then noticed a leak on the other side of the carb behind the electric choke, it looks to be a plunger of some sort for the secondaries. After pulling the air cleaner I noticed a good amount of fuel from that leak down in the intake manifold.

So is it worth being rebuilt or would you go with a smaller carb like others have recomended? If so what any help there is appreciated.

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Originally Posted by 1923tbucket

So is it worth being rebuilt or would you go with a smaller carb like others have recomended? If so what any help there is appreciated.

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Since the truck is new to you, if it's been running OK then I would probably assume that the previous owner tuned the carb right until I saw evidence to prove that wrong. You may find that the PO went through the whole process of re-jetting the carb and making it right. I'd probably invest in the rebuild, then see where I stood relative to plug color, response, mileage, etc. An easier way might be to just buy a new 600, but I tend to be a bit frugal.

The second leak is the one that would get my attention. You say there is fuel down in the intake manifold? This is inside the carb? Raw fuel? To get a better understanding of what is going on you will need to start the engine with the air cleaner off. While it is idling look down into the carburetor, you should not be able to see any fuel going into the engine. If you see fuel then you can see the problem, ok? If there is fuel coming from the top of the vent tubes then the needle and seat are stuck and not able to shut off the fuel; if you see fuel coming out of any of the 4 boosters (they are those legs sticking out into the venturiis) then the idle is too high or the fuel level is too high. After a good looksee shut the truck off and look again into the 4 boosters, if fuel is dribbling out of any of the boosters then the fuel in that section of the carb is too high and you will ahve to lower the float.
Again, if the engine is at idle (800rpmish) you should not be able to see any fuel going into the engine, the engine at that point will be supplying fuel thru the idle circuit only.
If you raise the rpm to 1200ish you should see fuel coming from the bottom of the boosters, the fuel should be kinda atomized and the droplets should be uniform in size and consistancy and they should be trying to form a bit of a 'cone' under the booster.
If your idle is 1200ish, then you need to lower it down. If you can't lower it then we need to do some advanced troubleshooting looking for other things like vacuum leaks ok? When you solve all the problems it will sit there and idle at 800ish rpm no problem.

Use a face shield to protect your eyes and face from a motor backfire.

No I should have written a little clearer, the leak is on the outside of the carb sitting down in one of the crevisis on the outside of the manifold. I'll go get a picture here and post where it is coming from. I just can't see how it suddenly started one day and caused an issue

Here is where I caught the fuel drip. It's right behind the choke
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...3/bf0c5de6.jpg

That is likely fuel running from the throttle shaft. It shouldn't do that on the scondary but it can do that on the primary.
Did you look inside the carb while the engine is running or with the fuel pump running? What causes fuel on the throttle shaft is when you shut the engine off a few dribbles come from the booster and land on the throttle blades which are closed because the engine is turned off - we are talking in a millisecond type time frame here.
The fuel dosn't just run into the engine as much as it runs down the throttle shaft and exits the carb at one side or another.
The problem i see is taht the fuel is on the secondary and since it is sitting in the garage and if the engine has been run it has just been run on the primaries so there should be no fuel any where near the secondaries. That is why you are going to have to look down in it when either the motor is running or the fuel pump is turned on. It sounds to me like the rear float is too high and needs adjusting down, we just have to prove that that is in fact the case.
I hate those carbs, i have a pair of them right now on a tunnel ram that i am trying to get sorted out - just hateful things the 4160.

I didnt I got a bit irritated with it. I will say that normally one pump of the gas and the thing would fire easy every time and there after when it was warmed up you would never have to pump it. Now you can barely get it to start and keeping it running is about the same.

It's just weird that it randomly started one day while driving. It had given me some crap one day driving around town and it straightened out and never occurred again until the other day. It's cranking easy and just not wanting to fire, almost like my mustang when the vacuum advance was bad on the distributor when it had points, this of course does not. With that we could get it to fire and drive and then it would act up, there are just a lot of things to look at.

I know how frustrating it can be.
Your problem, the sudden onset of it etc, sounds worse than i first thought and i am know thinking that it is a piece of trash gotten to the needle and seat. The needle and seat is under the nut/screw on top of the bowl - nut/screw are the adjusting means for the needle and seat. The needle and its' seat is the valve taht allows fuel to enter the bowl, when satisfied a float mechanism closes the needle and seat to shut off the fuel - exactly like the float on your toilet bowl and when they don't work right they can't shut off the water/fuel.
In a carb when that happen fuel will exit the top of the carb via the vent tube - they are at the leading edge of the venturii, the tubes that stick straight up. When needle and seat get trash in them fuel will flow out of the vent tube and mostly run into the engine flooding it and getting as you descibed black smoke.
With engine or fuel pump running you will be able to see it happen. It is very dramatic.
Don't feel discouraged, i am still working on the carbs i was grumbling about yesterday, i now have the plugs out for a look. These things are a challange, that is part of our attachment to them. If they didn't challange us we'd soon get bored and take up bass fishing.

I had a similar issue and chased it for a month. Finally after talking with the guys on CHR started with the tank and started pulling things and checking them out. Got to the fuel filter (12 months old) and found that it rattled. It had come apart internally and dumped all the trash down the carb ,a Holley, and cloged the idle circuit. Rebuilt it and all was fine. Also make sure you have a good fuel pressure regulator and gage. Its very easy to mess the floats up with high pressure from the fuel pump. Your truck is awesome and I know it is frustrating having it sit there not being able to drive it. Been there done that!

If the car has an electric fuel pump.. pull the power supply and try running it again. See if it reacts favorably. More like it's old self?? It won't run long but, it'll be a great indicator if the carb is flooding over.

If it's a mechanical fuel pump, you can pinch off the supply hose to the pump and run it. If the results are favorable, then OJH is probably correct.

As an aside, after running the engine out of fuel, the float will be settled to the bottom of the bowl and the needle valve will be at it's most open. When you restore the fuel flow you may have the potential of flushing clear any debris. I have had limited success doing this. Of course the piece of debris if it does move off is now in the bottom of the bowl but it may never cause you any issue...

Lol thats very true! I love the thing I just wanna drive it. Its sounding an awful lot like the carb, I'm gonna take it off today I guess. Fortunately I know a few guys that are Nsra members around here and know how to deal with them. I'm gonna go get a lesson. Hopefully that's all.

When I did manage to get it running yesterday I tried adjusting the floats and it didn't do a thing so. Before i messed with anything though it ran almost normal for a split second though then went back to its old self. I thank all of you for your responses it's a great thig!

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Originally Posted by 34_40

If the car has an electric fuel pump.. pull the power supply and try running it again. See if it reacts favorably. More like it's old self?? It won't run long but, it'll be a great indicator if the carb is flooding over.

If it's a mechanical fuel pump, you can pinch off the supply hose to the pump and run it. If the results are favorable, then OJH is probably correct.

As an aside, after running the engine out of fuel, the float will be settled to the bottom of the bowl and the needle valve will be at it's most open. When you restore the fuel flow you may have the potential of flushing clear any debris. I have had limited success doing this. Of course the piece of debris if it does move off is now in the bottom of the bowl but it may never cause you any issue...

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I'm gonna try this thanks! It is an electric external pump and I have a cut off switch inside the truck so I'll give it a shot

I'm gonna take a video here later to show yaw style whats going on. I should have done that off the bat. Check back later for updates