Adhesive for door patches

Attachment 52292
I've read some interesting discussions on using adhesives to patch panels and would like to consider this for repairs on my 1937 Buick Roadmaster.
The driver side rear door that is most rusted.
If it is possible to do these repairs in this manner it would save me a lot of time and money because I do not own a welder and will have to learn to weld.
I have lot's of experience using adhesive.
1) Will this method work well for bottom of the doors?
2) Is it better to:
a) make a larger patch first and glue it to the back side, and then glue a close fitting patch on the outside surface or
b) Make a flanged patch that fits on the back side with the front flush with the outside?
3) Can anyone recommend a source for bottom patches that have bend that would match the 1937 Buick Roadmaster doors?
Thanks

My son tells me they use adhesives on most of there panel replacements in the shop he's at. They buy the panel same as welding but glue it. Ive seen some of them and you can't tell the differance. and they don't seperate.

Pretty cool. My patches always result in more patches and lots of grinding. Need to get better at welding, so I don't burn so many holes! :):LOL::D;)

If you can get back far enough from the damaged area to have good, clean metal the adhesive works great! It takes at least 1" on both the existing panel and the patch panel to apply the glue properly and not have the seam show up later after the paint is applied. I use my bead roller with the flanging dies to to roll the flange the edges of the patch piece. The patch must be properly formed and contoured prior to applying the adhesive so that you do not overclamp the piece and force all the adhesive out of the flanged area. I use either Cleco's or self-tapping screw to hold the panel in place till the adhesive sets. My personal preference is Fusor products, but 3M is probably just as good. As far as a source for the panels, don't know. On the old heavy metal cars like yours the panel is probably 18 ga., I'd just get a sheet of it, make some posterboard templates and cut out my own. It appears the doors are flat in the rusted area so cutting out a panel is no big deal. The bottom edge of that fender is going to be a bit more work!!!

Like dave said, getting a flange made will get you the strongest bond and you will need a flanging tool to make that. You also need good bare metal on both sides to make sure the adhesive bonds. For the bottom of the fender,you could use smaller pieces to patch in. You also may find a rounded piece from a donor fender that is good shape and patch that in.

Attachment 52302
Thanks for all your feedback.
The doors are said to have wood frames in them that I'm planning on replacing. That will be easier for me because I have done a lot of woodwork through the years and have a lot of wood working equipment.
I'm planning a frame off build and I have a local oval track shop lined up to do the suspension and chassis work.
I'm just trying to get a handle on the whole project before I start spending cash. The more I save now leaves more for a better paint job.
The rust at the front of the front fenders and below the grill is also bad. See picture.
Questions I'm trying to answer:
1) Do I need a welder (or can I use just panel bond process) and
2) if so, should it be 115 volt or 230volt.
Some tell me to buy 230volt and some say 115V will suffice. 230V are $400 more and require me to add another circuit to my garage for another $100 in materials.
This is probably the only car I will use the welder on and all the chassis welding will be done by the track car shop.
I'm going for a 95% rebuild that will be a daily driver.
Thanks for all your help

I have a 115v welder and it can weld up to 3/16". The 115 welders will work just fine for doing bodywork.
With the 115 you can plug it in to any 110 outlet and it welds holes in body panels and spot pieces in . I would advise on getting a gas bottle for the welder. The gas will give you better welds. I know some say you can use a flux core wire without gas but I never liked the welds you get .
When you weld sheetmetal, you also want to use a small diameter wire like .023.
And when you get everything you need.....................just practice, practice, practice on old sheet metal till you get the settings correct for what thickness you are welding.

If I go the 115V route, I've got it narrowed to:
1) a Millermatic 140
Welders Direct: Millermatic 140 W/GLOVES
2) or a Lincoln welder from Sears
Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more
The Millermatic does 3/16 and has auto setup mode which would be good for a beginner like me.
The Lincoln will only do 1/8" and does not have the auto setting, but is significantly cheaper.
1) Is 1/8" good enough for body or will I regrett not having the extra thickness?
2) Will the Millermatic be worth the extra dollars?
Thanks

I have a 110 welder for body panels.The thing I long for is a larger welder.

IF all you ever intend on welding is sheetmetal, the 115 V welders will do fine..... But the majority of people I know that got one ended up getting a bigger one anyway when they got some experience in welding and discovered all the other things they could do with a bigger welder.... Personally, I'd rather have a bigger welder with the capability of doing the sheetmetal work with smaller wire, then have a small welder that I wish could do the bigger stuff....

Also when your looking at welders consider the duty cycle. Some will say the small welder will do frames and suspension just fine, but when welding the bigger material it doesn't take long to exceed the duty cycle of the welder. As others said, if you do go with the 115 V welder get the gas bottle and regulator, the flux core wire IMO is junk for any kind of work.

As Dart mentioned, whatever you get practice, practice, practice..... Even with the automatic settings your first welds are not going to be good ones. It takes practice to develop a technique and be able to see what the welder and the metal is doing! The quality of the weld has much more to do with the skill of the man doing it then the equipment he's using.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

IF all you ever intend on welding is sheetmetal, the 115 V welders will do fine..... But the majority of people I know that got one ended up getting a bigger one anyway when they got some experience in welding and discovered all the other things they could do with a bigger welder.... Personally, I'd rather have a bigger welder with the capability of doing the sheetmetal work with smaller wire, then have a small welder that I wish could do the bigger stuff....

Also when your looking at welders consider the duty cycle. Some will say the small welder will do frames and suspension just fine, but when welding the bigger material it doesn't take long to exceed the duty cycle of the welder. As others said, if you do go with the 115 V welder get the gas bottle and regulator, the flux core wire IMO is junk for any kind of work.

As Dart mentioned, whatever you get practice, practice, practice..... Even with the automatic settings your first welds are not going to be good ones. It takes practice to develop a technique and be able to see what the welder and the metal is doing! The quality of the weld has much more to do with the skill of the man doing it then the equipment he's using.....

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X2.The adult classes in after hours high schools is one source that can be a real benefit.For me I have been lucky to surround myself with professional welders to learn from.The metal work side of a repair is key to leading to really tight seams along with knowing your metals.

I gotta go old school for advice here fellas, the best bonding method is to weld. The better welders will take 230v. The sheetmetal can be gas (oxy-acet) welded and that is a very ggod method for doing skins etc. Don't overlap the skins, butt the edges in a very tight fit and weld without filler rod. Filler rod can be used to tackweld, but once you start rolling the puddle you shouldn't need filler.
Your door is 19ga, i use 18ga - close enough and easy to work with. Start doing your homework and practice, theres lots of talented folk on here and we can let you know what is going wrong. Learning to weld sheetmetal is one of the most difficult things that you can do in the restoration of a car and it ain't easy to learn. But you can do it. Welding the sheetmetal and hand finishing it was how it was done back in the day and nobody has improved on it. If you take the time to learn the metal you will gain respect for it - get Frank Sargents book 'Metal Bumping', written back in the 40's maybe and it is pretty much the bible on how to get done what you want to do.
Good luck and keep us posted on progress, if you need examples etc ask and we'll fix you right up.
Merry Christmas, oj

not sure if anyone mentioned it but when your doing patches with metal bonding adhesives they have been known to create a shadow effect when painted that will show right through your primers sealers and paint. when i was in school they had said metal bond was acctually stronger than welding. when put to the test the metal tore before the glue gave way. i did however weld patches in on my doors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chevygirl396

not sure if anyone mentioned it but when your doing patches with metal bonding adhesives they have been known to create a shadow effect when painted that will show right through your primers sealers and paint. .

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Usually because there wasn't a large enough area for the glue, needs at least 1" wide flange for the patch or panel to sit on.--when done this way, no shadow or ghost line....

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Thanks very much for all your advice and help.
Looking for a welder.
Thanks

If you have decided to purchase a welder (you should) then get a good one. I have always said that anyone can weld with a mig welder with very little practice.
I have built several cars with my Miller 130. Great machine! Once you have a welder you will be amazed how often you will use it.
The other accessory I will highly recommend is a good auto darkening helmet.

Ditto what ScooterCo said! I have a Hobart 140 mig welder from Norther Supply, that has served me well. That and advice from people here and a few youtube videos on using a welder. Don recogmended it for me since I was new to welding and just using it for the truck(not a living). I was able to pick it up on sale for about 425$ This one comes with a free cart. They are also made by Miller I believe.
FREE SHIPPING — Hobart Handler 140 115V Flux Cored/MIG Welder — 140 Amp Output, Model# 500500 | Wirefeed Welders | Northern Tool + Equipment

I'm looking at the Hobart 140 (list $660)
http://www.hobartwelders.com/produc...eed/handler140/
or the Millermatic 140 with EZ-set (list $862)
http://www.millerwelds.com/products...hp?model=M00234
Can buy either for less than list, but the Millermatic is definitly a couple of hundred more.
I have read these are pretty comparable and may even be same product, except for the auto-set.
Is the Auto-set on the Miller-matic worth $200 for a beginner welder?
Thanks

Can't answer that specific question, but can say I have had no problems with the Hobart, and am impressed with it's quality, and ease of use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mutt's37Buick

I'm looking at the Hobart 140 (list $660)
http://www.hobartwelders.com/produc...eed/handler140/
or the Millermatic 140 with EZ-set (list $862)
http://www.millerwelds.com/products...hp?model=M00234
Can buy either for less than list, but the Millermatic is definitly a couple of hundred more.
I have read these are pretty comparable and may even be same product, except for the auto-set.
Is the Auto-set on the Miller-matic worth $200 for a beginner welder?
Thanks

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No it isn't