Had my Son's cam degreed today.

Well, I read all the info I could find and watched every video on YouTube about degreeing cams and came to the conclusion I am just dumb. :o The more I learned the less I understood it.

So, I called the guy who did Dan's machining and asked him if he thought it would be ok to just install the cam straight up with no degreeing, like we have always done. He said if it is an Olds he wouldn't recommend it as he sees them all over the place. He suggested we throw the short block in the back of Dan's truck and run it over to him to do it for us. Last night Dan and I built an engine stand and bolted it to our utility trailer and today we took the whole thing over to his shop.

After watching him do it I still don't understand how to do it and am glad we paid him to do it for us. We found out the cam was 4 degrees advanced in the straight up position, so he moved the crank sprocket to another notch and it ended up right on.

I guess there are fabricators and there are technicians........he was amazed at the workmanship on the engine stand we built and we were in awe of his understanding of things mechanical. :) We feel pretty good now, knowing the cam is where it was designed to run, and next Friday we are going to take the engine back to him, once we have the heads installed, so he can check the fit of the intake. He says if he has to machine the intake a little to get a better fit he can do it while we wait.

He also has my 351 coming along pretty well so I should be able to pick that up by the first of the year.

Don

Very cool, Don. I agree, there're some things where it's better to pay the guy who knows as opposed to hoping it's right. Sounds like you've found a good engine guy this time.

Yep Roger, they not only do nice work but are a bunch of nice guys too. We had to force money on them for the degree job. I'm really glad we found this particular shop, they are few and far between in this area.

Don

Always good to hear about knowledgeable helpfull shops. We have a few here too, but it seems hit or miss until you find the right folks, then they get my service for life!

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Yep Roger, they not only do nice work but are a bunch of nice guys too. We had to force money on them for the degree job. I'm really glad we found this particular shop, they are few and far between in this area.

Don

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I've got a place like that too, but mine is 400 miles from my house :( Great bunch of guys, quality work you can trust, but a loooong drop off/pick up drive.

We have several stores that I hate the drive to get to, but it's always worth it in the end, great service, everytime! For those really long drives(4 hours each way) Summit top's the list. Most helpfull guys around up in Reno Nevada.

Great to see you got it done Don, Its a job very worthwhile doing and can release horses you didn't know you had. Now we need a pic of the stand you guys made :)

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Well, I read all the info I could find and watched every video on YouTube about degreeing cams and came to the conclusion I am just dumb. :o The more I learned the less I understood it.

So, I called the guy who did Dan's machining and asked him if he thought it would be ok to just install the cam straight up with no degreeing, like we have always done. He said if it is an Olds he wouldn't recommend it as he sees them all over the place. He suggested we throw the short block in the back of Dan's truck and run it over to him to do it for us. Last night Dan and I built an engine stand and bolted it to our utility trailer and today we took the whole thing over to his shop.

After watching him do it I still don't understand how to do it and am glad we paid him to do it for us. We found out the cam was 4 degrees advanced in the straight up position, so he moved the crank sprocket to another notch and it ended up right on.

I guess there are fabricators and there are technicians........he was amazed at the workmanship on the engine stand we built and we were in awe of his understanding of things mechanical. :) We feel pretty good now, knowing the cam is where it was designed to run, and next Friday we are going to take the engine back to him, once we have the heads installed, so he can check the fit of the intake. He says if he has to machine the intake a little to get a better fit he can do it while we wait.

He also has my 351 coming along pretty well so I should be able to pick that up by the first of the year.

Don

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Dan and I worked for the past several days assembling more parts onto his Olds engine. We needed to put the heads on and take it back to the machine shop so they can check the fit of the intake manifold to the heads to make sure they are square to each other. While we were at it we buttoned up the entire bottom end, installing the oil pump, timing cover, and oil pan. Then the heads got installed.

Since a lot of the gasket mounting areas got painted when we sprayed the block, Dan had to spend a lot of time with Roloc discs gently removing it back down to bare metal in those spots. One thing that held us back was that when we bought a set of intake gaskets from Mr Gasket at their booth in Daytona they gave us the wrong gaskets. The guy checked his computer twice and swore he gave us the right ones, but when we got home we found they were for a 350 Olds, not a 455. I called Mr. Gasket this week and they apologized and sent us out the right gaskets. Dan needed those so he could scribe a line around them so that he wouldn't remove any paint outside where the gasket goes.

While he was doing that I installed the lifters, pushrods, and rocker arms. Now we can haul the engine back to the machine shop for them to do their thing on the intake manifold. Dan's next day off is Friday so we will probably do it then. Dan has also been spending a lot of time wetsanding and polishing all the aluminum parts on the motor, sitting for the past 8 months has dulled them a little and this is a good time to get them looking nice again. Once the manifold is machined we can paint it gold, as well as the transmission and a few misc parts.

Dan has also decided to build a new set of headers for the car. He isn't nuts about the look of the Jaysters on it, plus they aim right at the side of his head and are pretty loud going down the road. Don and I bought him some lakes header parts at Turkey Run for his birthday from saltflatmatt and he is going to use those to make his new headers. We also got him a set of Car Chemistry baffles that will probably help the sound level too.

Here are some pictures from last night. The color photographs way off of what it really looks like in person. The true color is a soft gold and to us looks like what the early Olds engines had from the factory.


Don

Nice looking engine. The timing chain cover is so different from the one's I'm used to on my Fords. It's cool seeing something different for a change. Degreeing the cam is something I never heard about until I read this thread. I had no idea of the variations when you assemble an engine!

Thanks Steve. Yeah, I'm like you, I always just lined up the two marks on the cam and crank sprocket and installed the timing chain that way. But from being on forums like this with guys like Pat, Jerry, and the others who REALLY understand engine science it has made me aware that there is so much more to properly building an engine than I ever knew.

I must be really stupid because as much as I have read up on the subject of cam degreeing, and how much help I have gotten from guys on here, and even watching the guy do it on Dan's motor, I still don't understand what all is involved. When the guy was doing it he was nice enough to take the time to show us every step and explain what he was trying to do, but it was as if he was talking Martian. :(

I guess I'll stick to my backyard engineering and pay an expert to do the fancy stuff.:o


Don

Don I know exactly what you mean! :) I was at the doctor's office this week talking to a neurologist about chronic migraines. I'm a trained medical professional, and I was having a hard time tracking what he was telling me about ways to treat my chronic migraines, fortunately the process is easier than the explanation.
When it comes to cars, I've had three autoshop classes in highschool, Basic auto, auto chasis and auto electrics. I never took auto engines, but rebuilt my 289 in highschool.
The theory seemed so confusing, but once I got my hands on it it made sense. Now days with the modern computerized cars, with airbags, traction control, antilocking brakes, etc.. I feel like I'm in a different country and don't understand the language. This site is great for the tips, and deep background of experience from all the members, that in the end I realize most stuff I can do, I'm just afraid. So getting a nudge in the right direction does wonders! Anyway thanks for this thread, another tool to keep in mind for the next project!

Don its all looking very spiffing, Some engines like the Cadillac 472/500 are slightly retarded from the factory, just degreeing in the cam will really wake them up.

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Thanks Steve. Yeah, I'm like you, I always just lined up the two marks on the cam and crank sprocket and installed the timing chain that way. But from being on forums like this with guys like Pat, Jerry, and the others who REALLY understand engine science it has made me aware that there is so much more to properly building an engine than I ever knew.

I must be really stupid because as much as I have read up on the subject of cam degreeing, and how much help I have gotten from guys on here, and even watching the guy do it on Dan's motor, I still don't understand what all is involved. When the guy was doing it he was nice enough to take the time to show us every step and explain what he was trying to do, but it was as if he was talking Martian. :(

I guess I'll stick to my backyard engineering and pay an expert to do the fancy stuff.:o


Don

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Originally Posted by roadster32

Don its all looking very spiffing, Some engines like the Cadillac 472/500 are slightly retarded from the factory, just degreeing in the cam will really wake them up.

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Steve,
I think sometimes that I was slightly retarded from the factory, too :eek:, but usually a cup or two of black coffee wakes me up enough to hide it. :LOL:

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Originally Posted by rspears

Steve,
I think sometimes that I was slightly retarded from the factory, too :eek:, but usually a cup or two of black coffee wakes me up enough to hide it. :LOL:

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Rog, I don't even have a pulse til half way thru the second cup! and I have the appropriate coffee mug, it sez "Is there life before coffee?"

Back to the post... It's really good to know exactly where the cam is at when everything is all done and you start wondering where there's a bit more performance... Dialing in a cam is one more thing that really sold me on the hydraulic roller cams, with the super fast ramp rates you can run less duration and move the valve opening and closing events around.... Makes for better performance and still maintains good street manners...

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

It's really good to know exactly where the cam is at when everything is all done and you start wondering where there's a bit more performance... Dialing in a cam is one more thing that really sold me on the hydraulic roller cams, with the super fast ramp rates you can run less duration and move the valve opening and closing events around.... Makes for better performance and still maintains good street manners...

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I'd really like to see a "primer" tech article on the right way to degree a cam, what it can do for you and what you need to be aware of for a long term, reliable engine. Maybe a new thread in Engine Talk? Or maybe a link to a good article?

Lots of good information in the Comp Cams Tech section, same with Lunati Cams... along with a whole host of books (I buy most of mine on Amazon) on the subject. I don't claim to understand even half of what the correct cam can be made to do, but I sure do know the Phone numbers to call to get hold of the experts!!!!! In our last 3 drag car engines, plus a lot of street stuff, we've gone with custom grind roller cams, some mechanical, some hydraulic and I have yet to be disappointed in any of them. My most favorite Tech at Comp, a guy named JR (now retired) got me going on custom grinds about 20+ years back. He explained that every grind in the catalog is going to be a compromise unless your are duplicating the engine that the particular cam was designed for. Granted, you need to run it on a dyno or compare ET slips at the drags to see the difference, but for the small increase in price between a shelf grind and a custom grind is worth it.....also I wouldn't even consider running a non-roller cam anymore, the rollers are so much better and the cam grinder can do a lot of things to a roller that on a flat tappet cam would be impossible, or make the cam a nasty thing to live with on the street.....

Like I said, I must be really stupid because you guys gave me a lot of info on here, I watched video after video on YouTube, and the guy who did the work for us even drew me a cam lobe and showed what he was trying to do............none of it sunk in. Even Dan, who is really smart about stuff, was confused after watching him do it.

I guess it is like anything else, after you do it a few times you know how it is supposed to be done. I might try it on my 351 when it comes back from the machine shop, after all, I have a nice new shiny degree wheel that I bought from Summit. :D

From the little I was able to pick up, it looks like there are two separate steps in degreeing a cam:

1) The first step is to find absolute top dead center by bringing the number one piston up until it reaches it's absolute highest point. You can do that with a dial indicator or a mechanical stop.

2) Then, when that is done you can determine if your cam is in the correct relationship to top dead center, according to the info on the cam card that comes with it.

Beyond that, I know nothing. :o

Don

You, Me and Shultz from Hogan's Heroes Don! :) I KNOW NOTHING!

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Like I said, I must be really stupid because you guys gave me a lot of info on here, I watched video after video on YouTube, and the guy who did the work for us even drew me a cam lobe and showed what he was trying to do............none of it sunk in. Even Dan, who is really smart about stuff, was confused after watching him do it.

I guess it is like anything else, after you do it a few times you know how it is supposed to be done. I might try it on my 351 when it comes back from the machine shop, after all, I have a nice new shiny degree wheel that I bought from Summit. :D

From the little I was able to pick up, it looks like there are two separate steps in degreeing a cam:

1) The first step is to find absolute top dead center by bringing the number one piston up until it reaches it's absolute highest point. You can do that with a dial indicator or a mechanical stop.

2) Then, when that is done you can determine if your cam is in the correct relationship to top dead center, according to the info on the cam card that comes with it.

Beyond that, I know nothing. :o

Don

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not a big deal don but did you get the parts ?

Yep, I sent you a couple of PM's. Didn't you get them? Thanks, now I just need the total from you, Pat.

Don

nope i never did must be another thing screw up on here

I'm sending you one right now.

Don

Oh, I see the problem, my in and sent boxes are full so I couldn't send any more. I cleaned it out just now and am sending you a new PM.

Don, I do that all the time. just forget to empty

Yeah, me too. Here I thought I had sent Pat two PM's and wondered why he hadn't responded. Then when I tried to send the one a little bit ago I looked up and saw the line telling me I was full and couldn't send it. I am SO good with computers. :o

Don

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Originally Posted by stovens

You, Me and Shultz from Hogan's Heroes Don! :) I KNOW NOTHING!

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I know that feeling...