Why are peope so scared?

Maybe i'm biased on this but i went listing one of my rides, the 75' camaro. The rides nice and in decent shape, better than most stock mid gens you'll see out there with alot of options most wont see neither. The price is well below the value, plus taking into account all the new goodies that go with it makes it a steal.

So heres where i ask why so scared?...
The car needs a rebuild on the original motor, so when it comes to selling it I gotta wonder
1. why would anyone think i'd unload it at the price i got it listed at if it were running and driving, and 2. why is it...ok i should back up a but...
1A. why dont people read the listings?? :) then finally
2. when they do see it needs a rebuild on the SBC 350 then they steer away from it like a puppy just ran out in front of them on the street.

My own thoughts would be if i was looking for a muscle car to drive or pick up to build my own way or heck even to flip, id want something that was at a bargin price even with needing a rebuild. And before someone asks the obvious quetion "why don't i just rebuild the motor and get more out of it?" the answer is i would, but i honestly do not have the space to feasibly do the work to swap the motor out. im limited enough as it is and between the other projects that are being finished up and the assembly for certain items out in the shop i cannot bring on another project right now. and no i do not wish to see the car sit through the winter either.

Any thoughts??

I never was scared to buy a car that needed work....Most of the ones I buy do need work I can afford them that way....You just have to wait for the right guy OR girl. and put up with the rest of the tire kicker till then.

yeah i understand it's just been dragging out for a really long time. seems like once a month the price drops on C-List and even started the bidding out on the Ebay to take into account shipping for the buyer. personally i always liked one that needed a rebuild just cause then i knew what had been done and had the reciepts to prove it. but i guess thats just how i look at it.

I could be way off base too but, I think right now there are a lot of so called "investors" in the market. They think they can put some bucks into a car that will hold it's value better than cash.

Like I said, I could be all wet! Just thinking out loud, but, I have people asking me if I'd sell my 34 for the reason(s) above.

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Originally Posted by 34_40

I could be way off base too but, I think right now there are a lot of so called "investors" in the market. They think they can put some bucks into a car that will hold it's value better than cash.

Like I said, I could be all wet! Just thinking out loud, but, I have people asking me if I'd sell my 34 for the reason(s) above.

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Exactly for all the reasons you mentioned is why it has become a frustration on my end for how long the car has been for sale with each listing progressively lowering in price to match the market rates for what simlar cars of the same year, condition etc etc have been selling for. and i been doing that month to month based on sales.

The really sad part is just the extra new parts are worth about a 1/3 to 1/2 of the asking price on just the car alone. She just needs some work and would be a gem once again. maybe im just too honest about the condition cause i deal in cars and parts on the side for extra cash. Attached is the most recent pic of the car, in this pic it's been months since i buffed the car so it's showin a bit of paint fade.

Attachment 51843

And this is what she looks like all polished up.

Attachment 51844

OK-let me take a shot at this.

A let's see here.:HMMM:


Oh I think I got it now.





They all have wife's.:eek:;):LOL::LOL:

I just looked at your eBay listing and sure can’t see anything glaring that would prevent someone from buying this car. If I were in a market for a “newer” hot rod this would sure be a good one to snap up. I believe your price is good considering the car. You say upfront that the engine needs rebuilding – is it “drivable” as is? Would someone in Portland be able to drive this one home or would one need a trailer?

There may be one drawback with the whole DEQ/EPA requirements. I know in Oregon that anything made after 1974 MUST pass DEQ to be licensed and insurable. I don’t necessarily agree – but it’s the law and it would be a detriment to my buying something like this and then not being able to put a respectable engine build in her. They (the State) can be very sticky about all of the original emissions controls for the year manufactured right down to the smog pump, vacuum hoses, etc. On a lucky day, you may be able to breeze right through but if you happen to get the real “letter-of-the-law” stickler they will ding you and not pass the car making it un-drivable until such time as all of the original emissions equipment is restored. I know of several instances where this has been a problem and on my own vehicle (2002 Expedition) I was told I could not have an aftermarket air system until such time as I produced the C.A.R.B certification and the DEQ inspector relented – interestingly enough the vehicle still tests well within the limits at over 210K miles..

I hope you do sell the Camaro – it’s a nice looking car. List it here at CHR – ya never know – might be just what someone’s looking for and if they in a state that doesn’t require DEQ type inspections it would be a great car to build un.

Regards,
Glenn

My experience has been, and one of the many reasons I gave up on eBay, is that the majority of people shopping on eBay are looking for that #10 car at a #2 price---plus they want it delivered for free!!!! The internet is good for getting a product out in front of thousands and thousands of people but it also seems to draw every tire kicker in the world looking at cars. Also I believe that a lot of the potential buyers these days would be mechanically challenged to change a tire let alone swap out an engine!!!! Oh yeah, and don't forget the "I want it perfect and I want it right now" crowd have never had to buy something that needs work and take the time to fix it themselves, much easier to just sign the loan papers and drive a new car.....

I concur Dave - especially with the "I want it perfect and I want it now.." It seems that we've got a really spoiled generation of people who have succumbed to the instant gratification model. If only then know how much more satisfaction can be had in life if one is ready and willing to work for something now and again..

there is alot of i want it dirt cheap ... i do not want to build it just drive it ..on Ebay but i could be wrong there is alot of guys that look at a engine as a big deal and do not have a line on a guy like alot of gear heads know more then one guy that can help them or a shop in there town. life seams more fast pace no one wants to do it them self or take the time to learn . i have a SHP dart 400 short block on ebay i did some trading with a good customer for work and cash to pick it up all new good price still not sold on e bay been on for many weeks hard for me to think that you can not sell a small block any more ? Economy ??? so i see it as well but i do not deal with cars but i see some of it in what i try to sell on line

There are a lot fewer buyers today who have become more selective. That, coupled with some sellers being overly enthusiastic in evaluating how nice what they have is, has led to a lot of skepticism on the part of buyers. Highly desirable stuff is still selling, especially the nicer examples, but the more mundane are languishing.

Although Gary has probably the most blunt honest responses I do agree with what Glenn had to say about the emissions testing. I will say that although the car does have a clean title it is in Washington as that is where i now reside up in the pudget sound area and have that in the listing. As far as condition of the motor, it is pulled, even have a pic of it up on the cherry picker in the ad.

To those that have emailed about the motor i did tell them if they were up in my area i have a guy who runs a machine shop specializing in SBC motors that will do short blocks for $150 and long blocks for $300 which is a smoking deal. I myself did price out the rebuild kits which reallly arent even that bad as far as costs go to rebuild it back to stock. Ranging from $350-500 bucks, of course building performance costs more but that's where deciding what you'd want to do comes into play.

I did post an ad awhile back but adjusted my price recently to match my C-list ad (thanks to mrmustang who revised it within hours of contacting him...thank you again) obviously the ebay was a last resort to get something out of the car with 2 ways of buying it, one as is with the aftermarket products or pay a lil extra for a turn key drop in ready motor which i thought maybe id at least give an option to people to have that option if they just didn't know how to go about rebuilding or setting up to have a motor rebuilt.

but like dave, pat n glenn said to me i too think that people are mechanically challenged and in an attempt to not pull my own hair out blame their parents ;) for not teaching guys some basic fundementals in life. im not that old but i remember getting pretty good by age of 13/14 changing out the ole mans u joints on that 86' K5 blazer that just couldnt seem to maintain one for more than a few months. Loved his lessons in life when i bought my first mustang and learned a valuable lesson on not using carb cleaner unless im rebuilding it. after a night of rebuilding the carb she was all ready for the road the next day. i still thank him when im working on my current cars for telling me to go down and see George at NAPA and buy a Chiltons and get a rebuild kit cause he was going to help me. I never realized his help was going to be read the manual and come see me when you bolt it back on LOL!!

Pat n Bob, i agree with what you guys said too cause i have also gotten a bit picky as to what im buying and market prices reflect the economy to a point with more people with less money or out of work. I just thought if I started off the bid at the give away price someone would have bought it by now or at least bid the first time it was up. And yeah there are TONS of tire kickers out there that basically say oh i'll buy it if you ship it to me. So basically they want me to just sign over the title and donate the car to them cause their broke,,,or like Gary said,,,have a WIFE.

I am glad to see im not completely biased thinking that car buyers are not only lazy not wanting to take the time to build their own or want that turn key gem at the dirty low price of a lemon. hopefully in the next 48 hours someone will actually bid on it cause id hate to go having to list it again at the "im already eating it" price.

Thanks again all of you for your advice and insight with your opinions on what the market is reflecting. Ive had alot of feedback on the car from other "car guys" that i know and yours and their opinions seem to be running parallel to one another. I do know one thing i learned from buying a hot rod 8 years ago to now, is gained a lot more experience as to what sells and what has a limited market (2nd gen Camaro's) wont ever be buying one of these cars again!

PS Glenn thank you for looking over my ad and giving me some feedback, i think i'll be taking what you said and revising some of my verbage i used in listing the car.

(Paypal account required) is not a good thing. I detour from that. Not saying that's why, but it's always bothered me. When you do that, ebay can keep your paypal account turned on which turns me off.

Yeah it's why i gave an option to pay in cash in person. I normally accept other methods but with so many scammers out there in the last couple years i made a trade off for security with sticking with paypal for a deposit.

OSK I told all my boys thwe same thing your dad told you....Only I had most of the books form my learning...They changed cams rebuild top ends anything that they broke they would fix. I try to teach the grand kids too but they are for some reason a diiferent breed(if I can use that word) they just want to play vidio games and tex people?????
Trjohn57 in case you don't know it "Pay-Pal" is Ebay they own it lock stock and barrel...

i like paypal

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Originally Posted by cffisher

OSK I told all my boys thwe same thing your dad told you....Only I had most of the books form my learning...They changed cams rebuild top ends anything that they broke they would fix. I try to teach the grand kids too but they are for some reason a diiferent breed(if I can use that word) they just want to play vidio games and tex people?????
Trjohn57 in case you don't know it "Pay-Pal" is Ebay they own it lock stock and barrel...

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Yeah my dad had gotten rid of most of his stuff due to injury but still had the knowledge to do his own wrenchin just not the ability but it got me started finding reference material and my best friends dad was a racer so made things fun for us since were now using those skills in a side venture turned full time now days lol. these kids today i just wanna take their game boxes n smash em and kick em out the door to go play with real people. The latest stats on kids with relation to multimedia platforms is stunning! toddlers playing with smart phones and internet? WOW is all i could say. keep up the good work fish n teachin the next generation hot rodding!

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Originally Posted by OSK

these kids today i just wanna take their game boxes n smash em and kick em out the door to go play with real people.

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I just did a google search on video game addiction, some scary information out there! Here's a quote from one of the pages I looked at


The 2007 study by the American Medical Association reviewing video game addiction concluded that “more research and studies are needed to provide conclusive evidence that video game addiction is a disorder.” Increased pressure is being placed upon the American Psychiatric Association (APA) to include “Internet/video game addiction” in the next edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), the standard diagnostic text used by psychiatrists worldwide.
Research by Stanford University School of Medicine in 2008 shows video games do have addictive characteristics, and a Harris Interactive Poll released in April 2007 showed that 8.5% of youth gamers in the United States could be “classified as pathologically or clinically addicted to playing video games.”

yeah Dave it is some staggering stuff. the wife n I were drivin to our dinner the other night and she was reading me studies conducted for ages 2-7 with information that kids that young are being monitored not by parents but the majority is the television, followed by video/computer based games and even smart phones. Korea has the highest number of video game addicts for young kids and even have facilities set up for rehab programs!
*Sigh....these will be the kids that will be responsible for taking over when im gone, and to think my parents generation thought my generation had issues LOL

Some of my fondest memories are working with my father - he taught me an awful lot about patience and how to work with machinery rather than against the machinery. He taught me the value of good tools and how to take care of them - many of the hand tools I have today are his and are still in excellent condition because he instilled the value of caring for tools...

My kids all worked with hand tools - some more than others. I have three daughters and my middle one is very mechanically inclined and used to help me assemble engines. Even as a 10 year old she could use a piston ring compressor and assemble rotating assemblies - I did the final torque as she didn't weigh but about 80 pounds dripping wet.

My youngest took to wood working tools and she's always working on her house.

My son raced dirt bikes and has a real good working knowledge of two strokes. When he picked up a national sponsorship he would watch the mechanics in the trailer between motos and always asked questions while respecting the mechanic's space and never touching anything - just watching. After a while, they would let him help a bit and he's pretty sharp on most thing mechanical and really respects and appreciates tools.

My grand kids love the shop and my youngest grandson (3 years old) loves to watch and he's really got the hammer and nails down. Hears my Harley a block away and tells his grandma, "Gram pa's coming." He even knows enough to say, "that's not a Harley" when he hears a Japanese bike.

We do what we can - I'd love to see more kids appreciate the gift of learning to work with their hands on something other than an X-box or Play Station but too many people have taken the easy way out and let the TV babysit until we have a generation of lazy couch potatoes..

Thats a great thing Glenn, to learn to respect things is near as important as earning the knowledge behind the skills.
The car officially was bidded tonight in the closing minutes with half a dozen other calls pertaining to the car with interest from here to the east coast. One of them last minute bids stole it for the bare minimum but i wont complain too much about the price, so long as the deposit is made and they come get it.

This thread is pretty much about wanting to sell a car.Let's just say as a example I know of a racing operation that had a very long history of buying incomplete cash short drag race cars in the fall/winter,finish them,turn them around to winning cars,sell for a profit at the end of the season.For yrs that formula worked really well.But then the market went soft.It was somewhat the end of a era.That there is a surplus of cash distress incomplete cars out there dropping the sold price or there there isn't as many because people didn't have the money to start them in the first place.

My point??. Don't mean to be direct.But your sale is no different these days than anyone else.Hope you get the money.And remember this experience for a long,long time.From the heart,Gary.

I understand Gary, i chalked this up a long time ago as a lesson learned, just wish i knew now back then. I've made enough good car deals on vintage rides recently that im money ahead and like to stay that way and stay ahead of the market. it's more disappointment than anything on my end for jumping on a car right out of the service and having opportunities come later that i could've done vs the 75'. its always a lesson learned, some harder to swallow than others but at least now the guys sending the money prior to pick up and i can write this off as a loss, but thats life, you win some you lose some. it's just making sure your winning more than losing. and i hate losing :)
With the market being what it is now theres plenty of good opportunities out there to make even more money back off this car so all is not lost. just more cautious these days than almost a decade ago. At least now i can finish up the 57' and have a lil extra to get started on the Caddy restore for this winter. all is not lost

Just a though, but summit sells nice 350 crate engines for cheap. You could do a quick swap, sell it running with a new rebuild and a little time. The sell the old block on craigslist. I know you probably don't want to put more into it, but it is a option. Car looks to be very nice.

Yeah that was one potential for the car, but i really dont have the space to bring in another car for the swap needed and i have a motor ready to go if it came to that but now that the car is sold and the deposit being made tomorrow morning the spare 327 is now listed as available on C-list, so i'll get all of the asking price i had on C-list for the car, just had to go the ebay route more so since we needed the money for things that have to be done for this winter.

it was by no means an easy decision to sell it for such a low price but things are working out in a reasonable manner that will be beneficial to my family and is going to a good home so i gotta keep my head up and focus on finishing the shop truck and prep for the next builds we have lined up for this winter in preparation for this coming springs shows. just hard starting out making a move into a business and needing things for a new house.

That car was amazing when she was on the road and the new owner will be finishing off getting it back on the road in time for their wedding since its a wedding gift to each other for their upcoming wedding.

Congratulations. It sold.
Yepper on the ebay and pp being together.
Ever since I hooked them together with pp required, I've noticed when I do pay with pp that afterwards they don't direct you back to pp. So when you go back to ebay and do your shopping or whatever that they don't sign you off of pp. So you got to go back into it to shut it down or they leave it turned on. Just a thought. I do sell parts to buy more for the 37. It's getting to cost more on there with the charges, but being a TRS they do reimburse you 20% which is nice. The fun of ebay.
I know have a rolling chassis for the pontiac. Bought a 12 bolt rearend for it, but thinking I'm better off putting that in the goat and taking the 10 bolt and putting that in the 37. Any thoughts on that?

Sounds like a good ending all around - You sold the Camaro and we have new couple with a hot rod project. Be sure and steer them towards CHR so we can see how the car comes together! Good thread OSK - enjoyed participating and we all learned a bit too!

Regards,
Glenn

whats the overall plans for the 37'?

I don't/didn't mean to leave the impression that I am saying you shouldn't invest in a project.What I mean is you have to be more on your game in terms of a purchase price when you buy a project.

That means being fully aware of the parts costs for you to finish,your skill set,shop tools and equipment which all people making a purchase from you never account for,space,and then be able to set a price offer given some space for the unplanned things that come up.

I do know of guys with drag cars that fell in love with a car and are so over invested in them,lost their shirts yrs ago with repairs and updates.Heck I do know of one guy with chassis updates on a Vega super gas car over the yrs has way,way.too much money in that thing.Consider a good program is to turn a car every two seasons that originally you got as a killer deal.And because it is a buyers market,those deals are out there.So the purchase price is so important and then this two yr turn program puts pressure on your skill set to not farm out much still doing a pro job finishing the car.

So I guess I'm suggesting the day you buy something,you looking forward how to sell it. ;)

if we only had a "Ross"...glenn/gary i'll just respond to both of ya at the same time,

Glenn i was certainly planning on steering them towards the site when he picks up the car, he sounded like a good enough guy and has experience with motors and camaros so regardless of the $ end of it, its sounding like from my phone call it was the "right" person to get this car.

Gary i understood what you'd meant, i never took it as a means to try n steer me or anyone away from investing into a project. your advice is certainly spot on, i too think people should be fully aware of their purchase in all aspects, and i was when i went into it initially, it was a very nice driver with an appraisal that was worth more than i'd paid but i think we all know the market bottomed out after 03'. but i suppose i'd rather be out a few grand in cash than some are out in their houses they bought in 02/03'.

When i was working at the dealership selling i worked with so many guys who were the aces that had bought homes only to have their houses crash in price so fast they couldnt even list em fast enough to try n pull out. that was some serious money i heard guys losin on their homes, i felt bad cause most had family n kids and heck i was barely engaged at the time and the two of us buying or house of a bank owned foreclosure for a fraction of the value, where were money ahead once the market picks back up.

Gary, my buddy who owns a shop is part owner on a car that he's helped build and races up here in the vintage mod class in Washington, i know he's talked about the joys and the pains of owning a car, sometimes it seems its more of a pain ;) I think your advice is warranted and sounds to be from some experience. It's probably best to build em, use em and find em a new home unless it's a family heirloom you shouldn't get too attached, heck half the fun is the build process :)