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11-03-2011 12:40 PM #1
Octane Booster Fuel Additives - Opinions/Facts Needed!
OK, I have a 350 with unknown guts, Edlebrock 650 CFM 4-barrel carb, Edlebrock Performer intake manifold with headers. The engine was built by a shop in Missouri (data plate on block with only serial number) and it kicks #ss when its running right.
My problem is detonation (knocks) when accelerating. Spoke with my mechanic about this and he recommended a fuel additive that he is super-pumped about (and a dealer for).
The cider is called DLEF All-Purpose Fuel Treatment and is produced by David Liles, Liles Oil Company Inc. It is listed as a "Cetane & Octane Booster" and has ethanol in it.
I tried it, bam! no knocks!!! Seems to work great!
So what is the problem? I've moved away from my mechanic and this stuff isn't the easiest to find where I live now.
I always fill with premium (93) and add 16 oz to a 17 gallon tank. It seems obvious to me that the extra octane is what is getting rid of the knocks but maybe there are other ways to get the knocks out and enhance performance???
I now use this car as my primary rig and don't like the knocks!
Anyone have any good ideas/opinions/facts about these "snake oil" products?...at least I'm enjoying the ride!
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11-03-2011 01:50 PM #2
I built a sbc a few years ago that I thought would run on the 93, but got knocks..It cost me more but I would run 110 with the 93 half and half. ran fine and if I wanted to play a little harder I just didn't run the 93. In town here there is a Co-Op the owner is a circle burner and the have 110 at the pump island.Charlie
Lovin' what I do and doing what I love
Some guys can fix broken NO ONE can fix STUPID
W8AMR
http://fishertrains94.webs.com/
Christian in training
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11-03-2011 04:13 PM #3
I used to use 104 octane booster, about the same mix ratio as the product you mentioned.... Now I just run them on E-85, lots of octane and cheaper then premium!!!Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
Carroll Shelby
Learning must be difficult for those who already know it all!!!!
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11-03-2011 04:26 PM #4
I had not considered E-85 which might be your answer, but have you tried backing down the timing a few degrees? Octane simply slows down the burn time in the cylinders which reduces peak pressures and thus eliminates knock. Retarding your timing has the same affect, and unless your base compression ratio is way high you should be able to de-tune it to run on available premium pump gas without knocks.Roger
Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.
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11-03-2011 04:55 PM #5
Charlie, thanks to you I am on the search...but driving it as much as I do I hope I find it close! Someone in St. Augustine told me where I could find 104 from a pump. But he may have been on the beach too long.
Dave. care to elaborate? E-85 is a 15% ethanol right? Here in the sunshine state we have up to 10% ethanol on three different rankings (87, 90 & 93 if you believe thet pump text). In getting ready to put this question out to the world I read the bottle of the stuff that I am pouring in the tank and see that it is ethanol too!!!!
When you say you "run them on E-85, lots of octane and cheaper than permium" my simple mind gets confused. Do you still use additives or just E-85 and what the hey is E-85?
Not to mention WTH is cetane?
Back to the original question it sounds like I need to find the best (highest octane) gas that I can. Doesn't sound like others have found the same perfomance from additives.
But I love all of the opinions! I need help in running my engine right at a reasonable cost!
With as many engines that I know are out there, there has to be as many opinions about fuel!...at least I'm enjoying the ride!
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11-03-2011 05:23 PM #6
E85 is 85% ethanol, generally runs about 106 octane. Most folks don't have any use for ethanol but we've been running it for 5 or 6 years now in drag cars and circle track cars. Not as efficient as gasoline so you have to pump more of it to the engine. Takes some reworking on the carb, too. But when things are set up right, it really works good FOR ME!!!! Don't have any idea what the availability is around your area, here in the cornbelt it's available most everywhere....
Also might want to check into a water/methanol injection system... There's a number of companies making them, my experience is with one made by Snow....used it on a blown car with a boost reference system, worked great!!!!
Cetane is the rating system for diesel fuel.
What are your running for an ignition system and timing??? Sometimes you can pull a few degrees of advance out of the engine in the rpm range where it rattles and cure the problem, too...Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
Carroll Shelby
Learning must be difficult for those who already know it all!!!!
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11-03-2011 06:17 PM #7
Mark Thomas has campaigned a E85 funny car for yrs.
Race on E85Good Bye
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11-03-2011 10:26 PM #8
I had a stroked BB Mopar,,11.5-1cr,,and ran Maxrace additive,,not a lot,,a 400gram can,nearly full,in a tank of 96 unleaded to get the knock out of the engine..Ran good and hard..Worked well,but wasnt too cheap..Micah 6:8
If we aren't supposed to have midnight snacks,,,WHY is there a light in the refrigerator???
Robin.
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11-04-2011 03:59 AM #9
Thanks for all the replies, I guess that Roger and I must have posted at the same time cuz I just saw his reply.
That may be the deal though, I hadn't thought about it before. I guess that a couple of degrees might do the trick without losing too much HP or torque.
Lamin8r have you tried setting your timing back a mark or two?
Thanks all! I'll let you know how it works! But for the time being I'm heading back to my "snake oil" supplier and get another case...at least I'm enjoying the ride!
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11-04-2011 05:29 AM #10
Thanks Roger, I guess that it's time to get the timing light out and put it too work!
Kind of wish I had one of those handheld calibrators though......at least I'm enjoying the ride!
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11-04-2011 12:39 PM #11
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11-04-2011 01:11 PM #12
Hey, just one of the benefits of EFI!! I was just trying to reinforce that it should be easy and effective to back down the timing a notch or two, at least per the Edelbrock tech's...
One thing I've learned from this - I chased the story on ethanol octane rating based on Dave's statements about using E85. From what I read, pure ethanol has an octane rating of ~110, and Dave told us that E85 is ~106. The problem I have is that ethanol blends have a "shelf life" of around two weeks before they go into a phase seperation from absorbing water, and when that happens they lose four or five numbers on octane rating - if you buy 91octane that has 10% ethanol it starts absorbing water from the atmosphere immediately, and if you park for a few weeks or months you'll have 85 to 86 octane fuel, with water laden alcohol which may not be really good for your performance engine looking for 91 or better. Not a problem for your DD that gets refilled regularly, but for a car sitting all winter I'd worry about what's happening in the system. Not sure how this applies to E85 - maybe Dave can educate us?Last edited by rspears; 11-04-2011 at 01:21 PM.
Roger
Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.
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11-04-2011 01:29 PM #13
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12-20-2011 06:40 AM #14
Don't they also make sbc head gaskets in various thicknesses? I know they do for Olds engines because we were looking at them in Summits catalog.
Don
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11-05-2011 02:09 AM #15
Micah 6:8
If we aren't supposed to have midnight snacks,,,WHY is there a light in the refrigerator???
Robin.
Two men out hunting came upon a huge hole in the ground and were amazed at the size of it. "Wow, that's a huge hole; wonder how deep it is?" " I don't know. Let's throw something down and listen to...
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