Need help from the wiring guys

My '35 has a '98 VW roof panel with an electric sunroof that I am trying to wire. Below is the schematic I am using. The top part has the hot red wire, and brown ground...I've got that. The part that I'm not sure about are the brown/white and the red/brown that connect to the control module which I obvously do not have. I tried wiring the power and ground leaving those alone and unless it was a bad ground (or motor who knows..) it will not work. On all my T56 trannys I have used a resister plugged into my skip shift plug to fake it into thinking it is working. Can I do something similar here? Can I just ground them? I have no idea..Thanks!

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...it-Diagram.png

Do you know all the functions of this roof? I am thinking that you have a hot and a ground coming out of the control module. The purpose being some kind of a self adjustment by the system. If you could find an owners manual some how! I wonder if they have Hanes books for VW's? I have in the past been lucky enough to go the the local AZ and they opened a book for me to look at.

http://manualspace.com/download.php?id=293 Hope this helps Lot of diagrams google your car asking for wiring diagrams

Thanks guys. Maybe I don't know wiring well enough, but I'm not sure what else another diagram would have that the one I posted wouldn't :confused:. It says those wires go into this central module, but I can't find exactly what they do. I'll throw in some more info that will maybe help. There are two plugs on the sunroof motor - one with the red, brown, brown/white and red/brown. The other plugs into the control panel with a dial to open to roof and a couple different overhead and courtesy lights that I will likely not use. I have the harness from the car and it is cut off with those four wires and some others that I'm sure must be for all the little lights that clip into the harness.

sfort- I have been to the parts stores before and there was already open Haynes manuals, but they don't often have any kind of detailed information that I need, but I suppose I could check.

cffisher- I don't even know where to begin to find what I need in the link you posted :o

Just looking at your schematic my guess is that the red & brown are the primary power/ground connections. I'm thinking that the switches on the overhead operate based on those two, and that the red/brown and white/brown are alternate power and ground from the heat & AC, and maybe just the AC. My guess is that if you have the sunroof open and turn on the AC the sunroof gets a close command from the Comfort System. Not much way to be sure from what they show you, as both the motor and the Comfort System are black boxes with no internal wiring shown. I'll look through the manual Charlie linked in later today and see if it shows anything more for the sunroof controls.

Check out the circuit to see what is going on.....do you have the switch module?
Put your 12VDC across the red and brown wires on the 4 wire power connector. When you have it powered, you will probably have 12VDC on pin 2 of the 5 wire connector. This powers the switch contacts. I would guess that the variable resistor is limiting the motor torque so when it closes, the motor doesnt overpower the linkage. Keeping it powered up, try a switch; if it doesnt work, try the other switch. If you dont have the switch panel, jumper pins 5 and 2....does it move? If not, jumper pins 4 and 2. If you dont have the switch panel, DONT close the roof all the way because the motor may have full torque......just tap the jumper wires together to see if it tries to move.

I do have the switch panel and it is one dial that spins to open or close. When I am putting the 12 VDC across red and brown that is on the motor itself and with a voltmeter, right? What are you refering to as the variable resistor? How do I keep it "powered up" with the voltmeter with the control panel plugged in? Stay with me...I'll catch on to it eventually :rolleyes:

Try running down to your local VW dealer and talk with one of the mechanics and see if they will give you the low down on the comfort control black box. They wiill probably have a schematic in the system and you can get a print out.

I went and looked at an open Haynes manual and it was no help. It shows those two wires going into the comfort control module, but nothing about what they are for of any clue that tells me how to get around it. maybe its the area, but I went to the VW dealer for tips on how to remove the sunroof motor (metal inserts in a plastic cover and the bolts just kept turning). They claimed they had never had the problem so I just took a grinder to it and got it out.

Take a picture of the back and front of the switch panel.....one dial sounds funky. In your diagram, the squiggly line between 1 and 3 is a resistor symbol, the arrow going to the middle of the squiggly line indicates it is a variable resistor.

Hook power up to the motor leads with brown ground and red hot (+)
Using a volt meter on the 12 vdc scale, measure the voltage across pin 2 on the switch module connector to ground...do you have 12 volts? If not measure from pin 1 on the switch connector to ground. Do you have 12 volts?

I can't take pictures of mine until the weekend, but for now here is what it looks like from the front. I don't remember the black plug in the back on mine and the plug in the middle for the dial does not unplug..the whole round part on the back pops off, but I can't find another picture of the back that looks more like mine. I'm unsure of the years and changes made. It looks like none of the lights are in the diagram so I think the only thing we're looking at is the dial in the middle. This weekend I'll check the voltage, but the switch plugs right into the motor so I didn't think that was an issue it was more the 4 pin plug on the top part in the diagram where my wiring is cut off and those two wires go into the deep dark mysterious black box. I appreciate the help!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-VW...Q5fAccessories

OK, Ebay picture helps figure it out.....but doesnt help solve the problem. This is a funky sunroof where instead of opening it to where you want it, you dial in the opening amount.....I guess they figure VW owners arent smart enough to open their sunroof by visual feedback. The stupid sunroof control module (not switch panel) has some positional feedback setup that the motor powers the sunroof to that position which shuts off the motor. You're going to have to find someone familiar with the guts of the control module to figure it out or disable it......it's not a simple open or closed setup. Dynamite is always a good solution.

mike in tucson

thanks for the info Mike and what you say makes complete sense. the sunroof in my blazer is much like a window switch and would have been much more simple. I'm not sure why anyone would want it open partially anyway as small as it is. Now I'm stuck though because this sunroof is welded in :eek:. My dad keeps pushing to just use the manual back up which would be fine, but not ideal. what I wanted to do was cover the whole panel to match the headliner and just have a chrome windshield crank type handle that looks the part, but still operates the electric sunroof. instead I would weld the handle to an allen wrench for manual operation or maybe fine a cheap comfort control module or what ever you want to call it and just use it for the two sunroof wires? I assume it would still work fine only using it for what I need.

on a related note I bought a new port wiper kit a while back and it wants to take up much of the same space as the sunroof motor :whacked:. they didn't tell me it wouldn't fit with an electric sunroof! :mad::LOL:

Maybe....can you disassemble the unit enough to get to the wires coming directly out of the motor? IF so, find where the four motor wires go.....specifically the red wire and the brown wire. Your testing suggests that there is some control element between the motor and the connector so we need to get to the motor wires directly from the motor where the power is not influenced by something else. Find the wires coming directly from the motor and apply 12VDC to the red one and ground the brown one.....you should hear/feel the motor try to move (OR smell smoke). IF the motor doesnt move, reverse the wires so the brown has 12VDC and the red is ground. All you really need is the motor to open and close the roof and you are smart enough to decide when it is open or closed. Report back the results. Call the fire dept if the stuff catches on fire.

This is one of the problems with all of the integrated controllers on today's cars.....more sophistication means more complexity and makes it harder for the shade tree mechanic to work on. But I do like the air conditioned seats on my wife's truck!!!

mike in tucson

I'll check that this weekend. so you're thinking if I wire the control dial directly into the motor just power and ground it wouldn't be looking for the signal from the black box anymore?

NO, I am heading down the path of getting the thing to work WITHOUT the control switch panel.....once you can do that, the panel is the next step. Right now, you dont know IF the thing works at all.

Here is what the inside looks like. You get a good look since I cut the housing off on the end. This is the plug for the control panel. I don't know if I will get the motor to work (especially now :eek: but I was careful to cut only the housing), but before I can do that I had to make it clear the wiper linkage. Can anyone tell me how this motor works? I really need to cut about a 1/4" off the rod to the left in the picture to clear the wipers. There is an end cap that covers it and I assume keeps it from over extending. Is the length of the rod critical to how far the sunroof opens and or closes?

So the plug is basically soldered directly to the board and there are no wires. Everything just goes into the magical circuit board so I can't tell if there is some control element between the motor and connector. :confused: Sooo what's next :HMMM::)



http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...h/IMG_2883.jpg

I don't imagine this particular issue will come up on this forum, but here is my update. I bought a cheap comfort control module, figured out which two wires coming out of it are for the sunroof, a third for a ground and got the motor to run. The only reason I say the motor ran and not that I was able to operate the sunroof is because I am using a 2000 motor with the 1998 roof (in order the clear the wiper linkage) which still requires a creative mounting bracket and also I need to extend the gear up at least an inch or so to fit up into the track in the roof. Thanks for the help guys...I'm just about out of the woods :D