general registration questions

specific help for Virginia if anyone has any. I thought I had seen a post or two about registration before from a VA member. First, my dad has owned the car since '58 (off the road since '63 or so), but we don't have the title. My dad believes it was in his dad's name and still should be. So we are going the check the NJ DMV with a death certificate to try and get it reissued to me/my dad. Once we do that I hope it will be fairly painless to register in Virginia.

We want to drive it July 4th weekend in a parade. This will be the 4 year mark in this build and the parade is around a fairly private gated lake. Can you register a car that is not "complete"? We probably won't have everything needed to completely pass an inspection (still safe but, just a little more than 'around the block' complete). I understand the DMV will send someone out to place the DMV issued VIN tag. Does it need to be roadworthy to have this tag put on? Do I need this number issued to the car if we have the original title or is that only for reconstructed cars, replica cars, etc.?

Thanks for the help!

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/ci...cles/index.asp
research here.
In MA an auto with no history(to old) can be titled with a notarized statement of the history as u know it. Where tyhe car has been, previous owner etc. KISS applies.

Jack is the guy that posted about experiences in VA, and he posted as Henry Rifle. Jack recently took a two to three year assignment in Spain, packed up things (including his '33) for long term storage and signed off for a sabatical from forums, as I understand it. You might search for threads started by Henry Rifle, or posts by him to resurrect the info you are seeking.

Thanks for the help guys. I will search for Henry's posts. Bob- A notorized statement would okay with me if VA allows that. If NJ does not have the information on file we have registration and insurance cards from '63 to back it up. What do you mean 'KISS applies"?

I have one more question. In the 30's did they have any identification numbers on the cars? The old registration and insurance cars don't seem to have any number specific to the car. When did the current VIN system start?

From what I was told and understand, did not start Id no. untill 1955 before that it was the engine serial no.

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Originally Posted by 35fordcoupe

What do you mean 'KISS applies"?

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I'll never forget my grandfather teaching me about 'KISS', his definition was, Keep It Simple.....Stupid, :LOL: in other words, don't over complicate the process.

Mike

I do have paperwork with a serial #, but I can't match that up to anything on the car if it refers to the flathead. If it refers to the 283 we took out then maybe I could prove something.

I'd love to keep it real simple if the DMV allows it :eek:, but bottom line I will have to talk to the DMV to answer my questions, get pushed around through several people that don't know anything, wait, fill out papers, wait some more. Sounds fun...:HMMM:

Thanks

This link tells the whole story.

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/ci...onstructed.asp

You do have to prove ownership for the major components of the car. No exceptions on this. For a reproduction, it's not hard, because the reputable manufacturers will supply a MSO. If it's an older car without a title, you'll have to chase it down somehow. You do have to get the title and registration at the same time.

I was one of the first to register a replica in Virginia, and it was a challenge. However, they are pretty used to it by now. You shouldn't have any problems if you follow the instructions on the link.

One item of note - you only have to have the safety items that were required as of the original year of the car. However, if you install any safety-related system, it MUST work.

I believe I had the vehicle titled and registered before I had my safety inspection. The DMV inspector who installs the VIN tag does not inspect the car for safety. In fact, the guy who inspected my car had no idea how the replica car process worked. He told me that my '34 replica would be titled as a 2007 Ford. He was wrong. The title says '34.

My best advice is to call the main office. The folks in the local offices usually have no idea how to process anything other than normal day-to-day transactions.

By the way, it's Italy, not Spain, and we just arrived on Tuesday. It took two forevers for DoD to get my transfer completed. Right now, I'm sitting in Naples, within sight of Vesuvio, and in my first week of area orientation. The '34 is stored in Virginia Beach. I have no car as yet, because my Escape is on a boat somewhere, and I don't have my driver's license translation. Walking sucks.

Thanks for posting Jack. It sounds like you have your hands full getting settled in Italy so I appreciate you taking the time.

What exactly does the inspector inspect if they aren't looking at safety? Just that the main components match up to the "ownership papers" on file? For a MII front end is the invoice sufficient to prove ownership? I think I paid cash for the 10 bolt :eek:..I'm not sure how to prove that one. Where and how do they put the VIN tag on the car. The car won't be painted yet so it will have to be easily removed. I'll have to call the main office and see if I'll even need a DMV assigned number. There is a possibility I guess they may allow me to use the original information. Thanks!

BTW if you need someone to take the '34 for a spin while you're away I could take a trip down to the beach ;)

As I remember, he just checks the various serial numbers. I think that all he did on mine was to verify the MSO and the engine number. There was no way to identify anything on the trans because the car was complete and ready to run (and 4" off the ground), and there were no markings on the rear end.

If I were you, I would have copies of the invoices on hand to show him. By now, they have to realize that not every part has an ID number.

The whole thing was a much more informal than I thought it would be.

The installation method will make you grit your teeth. He pulls out a drill and drills two holes in the driver's front door jamb to attach the plate. I don't remember whether he used pop-type rivets or those serrated interference-fit drive-in pins. I don't think you should try to remove them for painting. A careful masking job should work.

The guy kind of torqued me off because he really wasn't very careful with the drill. He didn't do any damage, but I was'nt impressed with his tool skills. If I had it to do over again, I would ask him (nicely) to let me drill the holes.

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Originally Posted by 35fordcoupe

I have one more question. In the 30's did they have any identification numbers on the cars? The old registration and insurance cars don't seem to have any number specific to the car.

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Fords of the '30s had a vehicle specific "vin" stamped on the frame in two places, both on the driver side frame rail top. One is back where the frame begins it's kick over the rear axle, not visible with the body on (and usually erroded away over the years). The one most knowledgeable inspectors look for is on the front portion of the rail forward of the firewall down leg, sometimes almost as far forward as where the stock steering box mounts.

Often the same number was stamped on the top of the trans bell housing, but not necessarily so.

BTW, for info on all 50 state reg policies here's a site that might be worth saving: http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...itle_a_hot_rod

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Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

Fords of the '30s had a vehicle specific "vin" stamped on the frame in two places, both on the driver side frame rail top. One is back where the frame begins it's kick over the rear axle, not visible with the body on (and usually erroded away over the years). The one most knowledgeable inspectors look for is on the front portion of the rail forward of the firewall down leg, sometimes almost as far forward as where the stock steering box mounts.

Often the same number was stamped on the top of the trans bell housing, but not necessarily so.

BTW, for info on all 50 state reg policies here's a site that might be worth saving: http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...itle_a_hot_rod

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:LOL::LOL:KANSAS is totally blank!!:LOL::LOL: Unfortunately that is because the process is such a royal PITA!!

Thanks again Jack. If the plate goes in the door jam than I won't mind just masking it off for paint.

That's interesting Bob. I don't remember seeing the number on the frame when I was preping and painting it. Maybe it was ground off by the previous owner after they stole it from someone?:confused::eek:. Would this be the serial number that I have listed on the old insurance and registration papers or another unrelated number?

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Originally Posted by 35fordcoupe

Would this be the serial number that I have listed on the old insurance and registration papers or another unrelated number?

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In most cases I would expect so if the registering state used the original manufacturer supplied number. I don't have my file of info with me here in Vegas so can't check but the number for these; should start with either a 48 or perhaps an 18, 48 being the indicator for a '35. On the frame the stamped vin would start with a five pointed star, then the number sequence. Years of corrosion will sometimes make them very difficult to see as they get erroded away, especially if someone unwittingly took a grinder to the area to "clean up" the rust. Many times an acid wash in the noted area will bring up a faint image of the original stamping.

Bob/35FordCoupe,
I'm not sure it is the best source, but here is a place I used in the past when chasing numbers. The notes at the bottom of the list discuss specific locations, as well as symbols that are found on OEM stampings to frame the number. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...ialnumbers.htm

I always find it best to just go down to the local DMV and ask them, preferrably before you invest a bunch of time/money. Even in the same state, the interpretation of the rules change from one DMV to the next. In Texas we always went to one town and not another because they used a different, and much simpler, way to do it.
I know you have the history on the car and this is a sidebar but many people have waited until the car was built and then had problems. I have even heard of a previous owner coming with a slideback and taking a car that he held the legal title to. Not what you want to see happen to a build that took 4 years and $30,000.

Good advice about the DMV. However on an Antique, Rebuilt or Replica vehicle in Virginia, the ONLY way to get good info is to call the main office. The local DMV offices only know how to take care of every-day registrations, titles, etc. They're clueless on special issue.

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Good advice about the DMV. However on an Antique, Rebuilt or Replica vehicle in Virginia, the ONLY way to get good info is to call the main office. The local DMV offices only know how to take care of every-day registrations, titles, etc. They're clueless on special issue.

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I can totally relate to that. When I lived in Tejas, I would go in with all the correct information to do something (like register a classic) and it would send the blue-hairs into a frenzy of running around in circles, bumping into each other and dropping things. Once I even had to insist they call Austin because their book was wrong in one situation. They should have paid me for training.

The NJ DMV has nothing on record for this car that far back. So I will probably be starting from scratch in VA on this car as I won't be able to transfer a title. I'm in no rush right now though...it seems my July 4th deadline is approaching fast and car time is limited..

Thanks guys!

I think the biggest hurdle will be proof of ownership of the chassis and/or body. I suggest you call the DMV central office, tell them that your father has owned the car for 52 years, but there is no title. There may be some method of filing an affidavit to establish ownership.

I see on the DMV website a form for a replacement title when the owner is deceased so hopefully that with a death certificate of my grandfather and old registrations will pass as proof of ownership. That is exactly my situation except the 'owner' died 50 years ago :eek: