Sanderson reccommends using Permatex PX82180 instead of gaskets to install their headers. I went to Napa and they don't carry this stuff. Has anyone heard of it? where can I get it? should I just use gaskets?
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Sanderson reccommends using Permatex PX82180 instead of gaskets to install their headers. I went to Napa and they don't carry this stuff. Has anyone heard of it? where can I get it? should I just use gaskets?
Looks like it's pretty common per data search, here's one source; http://permatex.carshopinc.com/produ...id/42304/82180
That number has as much to do with packaging as product, ask for "Ultra Black" and they may have it in a different size/package.
From the picture Bob posted it's RTV black hi temperature silicone. Napa has it here but the tube has the number 598B on it. It might just be a code thing for Napa (like Bob already has said). If you ask for RTV I bet they carry it. Good luck and post a shot of those headers after installing them!:)
I've got Sanderson headers too, and had read this as well.
On their site this is posted in the technical section:
Exhaust header problems are history, thanks to Sanderson's exclusive new port seal design. The precision ground, built up weld bead surrounds the exhaust ports and extends past bolt holes to eliminate leakage and blown gaskets. In fact, the seal is so tight that gaskets aren't even required! The new flange has been extensively road tested on high HP, high RPM motors, and is now standard on all our tubular steel blockhuggers and roadster headers.
A patent is in the works. Just what you expect from Sanderson Headers, the leaders in performance exhaust products.
This might be more helpfull
http://www.sandersonheaders.com/tech...stallation.php
It is the link for their instructions for install. I think you'll be fine with the RTV Hi temp silicone.
Bullshit! run the gaskets or both-been there done that!
I didn't trust the no gasket or RTV routine with mine (either set, I have one on my 23 and ran them on my 27 for years) so I put regular header gaskets in there. However, on Dans 455 Olds he just bolted them up with no gaskets so far and through a lot of hours test running the engine there have been no leaks we can see.
But I plan on installing gaskets when I put the ones back on my 27, just because I am old fashioned, I guess.
Don
Sanderson and I had a "discussion" about this very subject. They are full of c@#p with the RTV. Exhaust flow can reach 1200*F on occasion and that RTV is not acceptable. As far as flat - they build up the flange with MIG weld then grind it - and flat, mine sure weren't!!! I looked at the Fel-Pro gaskets, but the holes were too small for the GT40P heads so ended up with these from Earls - not cheap, but a quality part: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-29D03AERL/
I installed my Sanderson Headers per the instructions with the recommended Hi temperature sealer. That was in April 2006 and more than 11,000 miles ago. I have had no leaks at the heads at all. If installed correctly they work as advertised. I have however, had to replace collector gaskets a couple times and finally went to the copper metal collector gaskets. No problem since then.
Pat
That does not mean the RTV gets to 1200 F. If it did your aluminum heads would also melt. The weld beads on mine were fly cut and very flat. If installed per manuf instructions they will work fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
Kitz
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitz
Lucky you - my Sanderson's - not pretty. They needed 6-8 hours of work just so they could be shipped out for Jet Hot coating, including MIG repairing their crappy sealing "flat" welds to even seal with a gasket
RTV - on an exhaust, not me.
I've seen posts like yours IC2 where people have complained about some fitment issues and also "the nasty lady on the phone." While I believe your statements and those other ones are true, luckily my experiences have been 180 out of phase with those..........Sanderson has been exceptional to deal with. I know from your past posts that you always post the exact truth and try to give the benefit of the doubt in all cases.
The Limefires on my 27 are 20 years old now and I still could use them if I didn't care about minor dulling in areas. Most of that was my fault for leaving the car parked in the rain almost daily while I was at work. I am having Sanderson recoat them and will run them for another 20 years (the headers will outlast me:() The set on my 23 is just the same, they bolted right on and no leaks or cosmetic problems. I also called Nick there with a rush order for the turnouts so I could make Turkey Run two years ago, and he made them, coated them, and shipped them in two days.
The Jaysters on Dan's RPU are a custom design Dan drew up and sent to them. They needed to clear some components on his car. They are perfect, bolted right on, and as I said earlier he isn't running gaskets or rtv yet and we see no leakage.
By contrast, Don bought Patriot Headers for his 23 and we had fits getting them to.............fit.:) Had to oblong almost all the mounting holes because some were a half inch off almost. Once on they are fine, but it took an entire evening to get them on.
Like I said, I don't doubt your problems with Sandersons, but mine have just been different. I even get along with the Lady on the phone, who I understand is the owner. Could it be that there off the rack headers are made by different workers than the custom stuff? All of ours have been made to our specs because we had changes we wanted made from their normal offerings. Maybe people like Nick and Jay get involved with the one off stuff?
Don
Don, I'm not complaining about the Sandersons, merely stating facts as they occurred for me - there are always some "Monday Morning" products or the day after a holiday. Mine most likely were that. Additionally, if you were to look here, http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...t=29683&page=4, you will see other problems with that brand that were purchased by randyr. You should also be able to find and read the problems in that thread that I encountered. As far as Donna at Sanderson - she has not always been warm and fuzzy:LOL:. When I purchased this set of headers - not a problem - nice as could be. My previous set - phew!!! Beyond nasty with NO provocation beyond asking some simple questions about fit up. She even made my ex look sweetrn honey that time:eek:
Now, with that said, Sanderson's are probably the best for the money. I wont buy their coating for a couple of reasons - Firstly, I had way too many hours work cleaning up their mistakes. Now, they are clean, shiny and do the job. Secondly, I know Jet Hot, but not the Sanderson coating system.
....and I STIIL don't think RTV is an exhaust sealant:HMMM::D
Ok thanks everyone. The picture Bob posted is pretty standard stuff I guess. I actually bought that exact tube I believe for the water pump, but I did notice it was only to 625* so I thought PX 82180 was a special higher temp silicone. There is enough approval for the ultra black high temp stuff here that I think I will go with that and follow Sanderson's directions. My version of the directions did not say Ultra Black RTV, it just used the number PX 82180.
"Coat the contact surfaces of the built-up weld rings on the back of the header flange with Permatex Ultra Black RTV, then slide the header over the studs."
So I want to actually coat the weld beads just around the four ports only?
I went by their instructions when I mounted mine.I think they ask that you re-tourque the bolts after a short period of driving.My kit had bolts with it. No problems with leaks at the moment,mounted in 2006.Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordcoupe
we hAve sanderson on the 429 installed per directions. no problems in running engine, but only in garage so far.
I had great experience with sanderson. we needed custom headers on the driver side to accomodate the Toyota steering box (power steering for 51ford truck). contacted sanderson because we had a set already and their site mentioned custom headers. they shipped me q box of tubing, I cut and arranged it and tacked. sent it back, they made a set based on that and sent it for test fit, then coated and finished it. 100 bucks over regular cost.
Well I don't need to worry about how to install them quite yet...the passenger side header won't clear the motor mount! :CRY:. I test fit the drivers side when I was doing the steering, but never tried the passenger side. Now I have to figure out a way out of this :HMMM:
I'm serious, call them up. you could sell that set and for 100 over the cost of a new set get that side custom built. OR just get a new custom set for that side, butthen you have ne header, k da hard to sell (I've got the passenger side for a 429 if any ody is interested :-) )
yea but I paid however many hundreds of dollars for these headers, so I would take a hit selling them and then pay an extra $100 for a custom set. I haven't given up yet...it clears the bulk of the motor mount, but if I could somehow cut the side of it and brace it I don't need all that much room. I'm just not sure about cutting the mount. Maybe I could find mounts with less of a metal shell...I think these are from a Nova. Maybe I'll try and snap a pic tomorrow.
Yep, shoot some pictures in good detail. Someone on here might have a solution.
Don
Here is a few pics of my dilema. I guess my only real options are modifying or finding new mounts that may clear...any ideas?
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...h/IMG_2552.jpg
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...h/IMG_2553.jpg
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/z...h/IMG_2554.jpg
`35 you can trim that mount down, just remove it and do it, if it needs correction just have some body weld on it, its a torgue down side, its not as critical.
Sense we are on the subject of Sandersons, anybody bought a set of CC11 or C11, I need the measurement from the hedder flange out to the inside of the collector left side block...? If anybody could help would be appreciated.:toocool:
With a Chebbie engine there have to be several other motor mounts that will work - including some that you can fab yourself. Look at Chassis Engineering (http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/page1.html it's not a friendly web site, but they do have good stuff ) Fords can also have some problems. The motor mounts that TCI supplied to me with my chassis wouldn't even fit their frame mount - made in China crap. I had to buy some US made. Regardless, the Sandersons are close as these photos of mine will show:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...HClearance.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...d/ANLines2.jpg
(the braided flex line shown here 'went' away)
`35 any three bolt early right side chevy motor mount will fit that, the early ones will not have the locking tabs on it that are hindering your hedder fit
http://www.classicchevy.com/product....dept%5Fid=2208
Rich- That classic chevy site seems to have a pretty good deal at $20. My google search hasn't turned up anything better. I'll probably just order a set and hope for the best! I'd rather swap them out and just save this set for something later to make it easy...as if anything is easy :whacked:
Dave- I can only get half of your first pic to load, but I am curious what kind of clearance is acceptable so I will check back on that pic later.
I have about a half inch between the mount and the pipe on each side tho the motor mount through bolt is closer - about a quarter inch (Ford mounts are different configuration then a Chebbie).Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordcoupe
Hopefully you can open the picture - it's Photobucket and they should be sized right for here.
yea thanks dave...it came up later yesterday. i reloaded a couple times, but it kept just loading the top half of the picture. it looks like its touching in the picture :LOL:. I ordered some new mounts...hopefully they get here by the weekend, but I'm not counting on it. maybe I can get the new mounts in and headers on next weekend if everything fits :HMMM: