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I 'm not trying to be funny guys, I am just trying to understand how it was blowing into the crank case. If like you said it had carbon build up on the valves the wouldn't cause that. I guess a ring must have been the problem then. In any case good luck and I hope it works out for you. Kurt
Kurt, I think the pressure in the pan was coming from the rings, but not just on that one cylinder. All the cylinders look pretty glazed and when I ran the hone down number 7 I got a lot of black carbon on the hone. So I think with each cylinder wall being carboned up a little each cylinder was contributing a little more pressure to the pan. But you are right, if it was only the valves the pressure would either be going out the intake or exhaust, not into the pan.
The other smoking gun was the amount of black sludge in the bottom of the pan. It looks like gas has been washing past the rings for some time now.
This little episode has me rethinking if I will put the 2 x 4 manifold I have on the new 331 stroker I'm building. I have way too much money invested in that one to have it running rich, so I am considering putting an Edelbrock RPM AirGap intake on it with a single Holley 650. I usually use Edelbrocks, but IMO they look kind of lost on top of a single 4 barrel setup........too compact. At least the Holley with it's large bowls fills out the top of the engine out a little better. I really like multiple carbs for the hot rod look they give, but I really don't want this happening to an engine I have so much money and time in. And in all honesty, a good single 4 barrel will run better anyway.
Don
Pat, I learned a whole lot more about my cylinder problem today and something you mentioned above ended up being exactly true.
I got off work early and spent the day making the rounds of auto parts stores getting the parts I need to reassemble my 350. First of all, what I thought were 10 thousandths oversized bearings were actually 1 thousandths oversize. I always have trouble with those decimals. After I found out what they were I remembered a conversation with my machinist when he polished the crank and supplied the original bearings 3 years ago. He said a lot of engines are now coming off the assembly line with odd sized crank journals because the factories are not tossing slightly defective cranks these days, but they turn them down just enough to make them work........so a brand new engine may not be "standard" sized, you have to mike the journals to be sure.
Finding a .001 bearing was tough, but a local engine builder had as set on the shelf. Now, for the part where you were right on the money Pat. You mentioned bearing "crush." I took my connecting rod and the loose fitting bearings that came out of it to my machinist and he said exactly what you said..........once the bearings are installed the crush is gone and the bearings shouldn't be reused. I bought a new set and they snap in the way I remember all previous bearings have fit. So you nailed that one Pat.
I also learned that Vortec parts are a lot more expensive than regular Chevy parts.........also something you said Pat. Even with my price being cost the gaskets, rings, etc were a lot more than most regular Chevy stuff.
Finally, my machinist told me why my compression was gone in that one cylinder. Carbon builds up on the valve stem and finally keeps the stem from going all the way into the valve guide, holding the valve open a little. That is exactly what I saw when I pulled the valves out of the head, carbon was very heavy on about two inches of the stem.
Besides the wire wheel cleaning and honing I bought two products our techs at work suggested. One is Power Tune, a product you shoot down the air intake as the engine is running at a fast idle. The motor will eventually stall, and you leave it sit for a while.........15 minutes is good, overnight is better. Then when you start it all this crud blows out the tail pipe because the Power Tune dissolves the carbon. The second product I bought is one you put in your gas tank. It is a Mercury Marine product called Quick Kleen, and it does the same thing but over a longer period of time for more complete carbon removal.
Tomorrow I am putting the engine back together and will do a compression test before the intake goes back on, just in case I haven't fixed the problem.
Don
Dan and I worked on my T all day Saturday getting it put back together. Dan worked on the fuel pressure regulator and also helped me put the engine back together. Today we picked up a couple of last minute parts and some fresh gas and finished it up. Before I tried starting it I took another compression check of the cylinder that had zero compression, and now it reads about 195.:D
We got it running and put a heavy dose of the Quick Kleen in the tank and also sprayed the whole can of Power Tune down the carb throat, and shut it off to let it soak some of the carbon loose. When we started it again you should have seen the crud coming out of the headers. Some guy walked by and said "boy, you sure are burning a lot of oil" :LOL: The motor runs much better and sounds crisp now. I also changed the plugs, cap and rotor while I was at it.
Then the starter crapped out. I have a Power Master 9000 on it and it has never been right since day one. We had to actually build a shim way back when we first got it running because the starter wouldn't engage the flexplate right, it either was catching just the edge of the teeth or went in so deep it wouldn't disengage when the motor started. We finally got it to work fairly well two years ago, but today it took a dump. So I called Summit and ordered a plain old Chevy type starter because I am tired of these gear reduction after market ones. All my life I have simply gone to the auto parts store, bought a regular starter, and they work as they were designed. I hope by going back to one of those types I won't have to fiddle around with it any more.
Dan and I are planning on taking the T to the Billetproof Drags this next Sunday, so I hope we get all the little bugs worked out before then. We are trying to talk Don into going but it isn't looking good..........he wants to work on his boat instead.:( BTW, the weather was FANTASTIC this weekend, I actually had to have my car heater on coming home tonight......what a great change. :D
Don
stock starters work fine .i like them if you have the room for one i used one that had a caddy field and a iron nose. HD drive new not re built .that starter would crank my two 548cid with 14.8 CR.the other 10to1 i still have the same starter on a 548 blower car they work great guys just buy the gear starters thinking thats going to fix it when you need to do more work to them to get them to work then if they just take the time to check the gear to fly wheel air gap and the right starter bolts and front strap
Good idea Pat. Starters should be something you bolt on and go. I've even changed them in a daily driver at the auto parts store parking lot and can't ever remember one not working well. Sometimes I think we get caught up in this high tech stuff thinking it must be somehow better. I've seen posts on various forums where guys were having issues with PowerMaster units, so maybe I'm not alone.
Don
well don i can tell you over the years i made more money milling the alum blocks and drilling new holes to clock the gear starters .then playing with the stock ones .yep ..i still remember rebuilding one in a parking lot for a freind .i kept boxs of all the good used parts and rebuilt then all the time :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
"right bolts and front strap"
and good grounds---fiberglass cars and boats---Ugh
I'm going to have to score a front strap somewhere. This engine never had one as it was a marine engine with a mini starter on it when I got it. My new starter shows up tomorrow from Summit so tomorrow night I'm going to see how it fits and put it on.
Today on my lunch hour I went down and renewed the plate for my T.......getting ready to take the drive to the Billetproof Drags this coming Sunday. I might put a seat belt in just in case I get caught up in the action and decide to take a run down the 1/8 mile. My luck I'll blow the engine and Dan and I will be taking a Greyhound bus back home. :eek::)
Don
Think positive Don, think positive.:3dSMILE: When I got the 36 coupe in '64 we put the engine together on a Thursday and I left for California from Dayton, Ohio on the following Saturday. The battery went out in Oklahoma so I had to have it pushed every time I stopped ans I rolled into Camp Pendleton Monday afternoon. So think positive.:D
Wow another great thread. Very useful info Don. Out of curiosity is your dip stick still being pushed out from pan compression or does it stay down?
NTF, yep, I've done the same thing. Drop a motor in, go take a shower, and head out on a trip. I was young and foolish then, now I'm just old and foolish.:(:)
Steve. No, the dipstick seemed to stay down for the short time I had it fired up before I tried to restart it and the starter went south. I got the new starter today from Summit and am heading to the shop right from work, so I should know more tonight. That Power Tune has been soaking in the engine for a few days now, so the carbon should be REALLY soft by this time. :D If the other stuff I put in the tank does it's job while driving it and the fuel pressure is under control I should have no more over rich problems.
BTW, Dan and Don were convinced the baffles in my headers were contributing, so I pulled them out. I think they just like the noise better that way.:rolleyes:
Don
Starter showed up today and I got it put on tonight. Happy to report it fired the engine right up like it should with no strange noises or anything. I hosed the T off real quick and took it for a spin........first time since June. I think the things we did were successful. The temp going down the road was 170ish (and it was a nice cool night) there was no black smoke coming from the headers, and the power felt good. Of course, after driving my Honda for the past four months anything would feel like a rocketship. :LOL:
I pulled a couple of plugs when I got back to the shop and they are still white, with just a tinge of tan starting on them, so I think we have the fuel pressure much better now. The test will be when Dan and I take it the 160 miles to the Billetproof Drags this weekend. Anxious to see how the fuel milage is.
Thanks to all who offered suggestions and encouragement during this ordeal. I've learned a lot about the importance of air/fuel mixtures and engine operating temps. Oh, I really think I have to put the baffles back in the headers, regardless of what my Son's say. I shook a little every time I passed a cop tonight and I swear, they must have been having a convention or something because I saw no less than 8 in the half hour I was driving around. :eek:
Don
Glad to hear ole 3k is back on the streets and turning heads...well maybe not the boys in blue, but up and roaring again!
Yep Steve, back in the saddle again. :D I even drove it to work today to get some miles on it before heading out this weekend. Now I KNOW the baffles have to go back in. Instead of getting smiles from other drivers this morning I was getting stares because I was probably drowning out their morning radio news.:eek:
But it seems to run fine, so that is good.
Don
Better to hear a small block than that thump-thump crap so many kids think we all need to hear.
That thumping bass is my number one pet peeve. At least a couple of times a week I have to mention to some of the people in our neighborhood that it is very nice of them to want to include us in their entertainment, but we really don't want them to do that.;) They usually say they are sorry and turn it off, but what I don't understand is why they didn't consider their neighbors without someone having to remind them. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickomatic
Don