Electronic flashers

....before you ask, yes I did post this 'elsewhere' a week ago and didn't get much in the way of any answers - I think it's too new a product for most folks to understand. But at least I waited to post here:whacked: !!!!

I have LEDs for signal lights. The normal Buss 552/536 thermal flashers will not work for sure and I DO NOT want to use the 2 resistors from Watson's I have as they look like add-on clap trap so I ordered up some Grote brand 2 pin electronic flashers, p/n 44891 to operate these lights. With that said, does anyone have any experience/history with this type flashers in an aftermarket application? They have an external and separate ground which is not a problem, and is kinda interesting, but I guess needed to complete the electronic circuitry.

One thing I did find out is that some of these electronic flashers will not necessarily work with LEDs and some are electrically set up opposite the standard thermal flashers. There are also some "adapter kits" that I'm not sure are really necessary if you get the right flasher. There really isn't a lot of GOOD internet information available for these gadgets.

The basic thing to understand, is that your standard flasher functions by application of current. As current flows through the resistive bi-metal strip in the flasher, the strip heats up and curls. When it curls, it breaks contact and current stops. Hence it then cools down, and un curls. Contact closes and cycle repeats. The reason that LEDs don't work with the old style blinker pots is that the LEDs don't pull much current. That is what the add on resistors accomplish.

I don't know how the electronic flasher operates, but I would suspect it is driven by a 555 timer, or perhaps an RC circuit for pulse width, and transistor control. Hence it would be current independent. Assuming you don't overload it, of course.

Firebird is correct that they don't pull enough amperage to make a conventional flasher work. I have read that one side goes to line voltage or power and the other side obviously goes to the lights. The flashers are marked. If you hook the flasher up backwards they will not work. Hopefully you will get good instructions with the flasher explaining this.

I was thinking about this when you posted elsewhere.. I can only think of the digital system speedway sells for $100 I think which they say is designed for. other than that I'm clueless as far as what will work from the aftermarket..

BUT.... what about wiring the std flasher to the signal side of a basic relay? that would provide enough resistance to trigger them I belive, and you may have room for a couple extra relays in your fuse box

These flashers are something like the proverbial 'black box', except that the Grote brand are blue.

The instructions - well let's say that they don't exist !!! The flashers are supplied in a tiny cardboard box just big enough to ship them.

Matt, the fact that I'm trying to eliminate excess "clap trap" says that relays aren't the way nor are there any extra sockets or space on my AAW module.

I find it discouraging that something so evidently simple as an electronic signal flasher has virtually no internet write up as far as how they really work. Then, the two prong version should be a direct plug in, and in the case of these, a separate ground to complete the circuit. Of course some of the foreign make and commercial vehicles use up to a 13(or more!) pin flasher.

If anyone has found a good write up, let me know - though at this time it's just for my information.

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Originally Posted by IC2

I find it discouraging that something so evidently simple as an electronic signal flasher has virtually no internet write up as far as how they really work. Then, the two prong version should be a direct plug in, and in the case of these, a separate ground to complete the circuit. Of course some of the foreign make and commercial vehicles use up to a 13(or more!) pin flasher.

If anyone has found a good write up, let me know - though at this time it's just for my information.

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IC2, things I know about flashers.. "older" style did work on thermal action as described earlier. "2nd" generation was electronic in that it didn't rely on a thermal action that would change based on load. i.e. when you plugged in a trailer. The additional lamp(s) would add load and cause a rapid rate of flash.

I don't know what is used to "time" the flash rate of the electronic type, I just know it isn't thermal. I also know that the 2 prong flasher is simply used for "straight through" flasher activation and a 3 prong flasher uses the 3rd prong to activate a common indicator light.

I learned the above info because I just finished adding in the directionals into my car. To add another complication, I used an 1157 bulb up front (turn & running light) and LED's in the rear! It all works fine as long as I used the 3 prong electronic flasher. I used a Lime Works directional switch where the end of the stalk (lever) lights up \ flashes when a turn is indicated. So I had to build jumpers from the fuse box (where the 2 prong flasher plugs in) over to the 3 prong flasher and the open prong goes over to supply the turn signal indicator in the stalk / lever.

Hope it helps some. I'm in CT. this week so I can't give you the part # of the flasher, but, it was a grote... Clear body too if I remember right..

Speedway has both a two, three & 5 prong flasher for use with LEDs. Around $15. (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/GmSear...r /> toocool:

what about the solid state electronic flashers that Mercedes used in the 80's? there expensive ( round $60 new ).. but there is a way to convert the cars to use normal flashers.. so using that method backwards would allow you to use the MB flasher in a normal 3 prong connector.. just a thought..

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Originally Posted by Matt167

what about the solid state electronic flashers that Mercedes used in the 80's? there expensive ( round $60 new ).. but there is a way to convert the cars to use normal flashers.. so using that method backwards would allow you to use the MB flasher in a normal 3 prong connector.. just a thought..

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Matt - I'm sure that the M-B flashers can be reverse 'engineered', but here again, we are getting into complications - and on a street rod, K.I.S.S. is my method of doing this car - and I'm already contemplating some simplifications. Then - the costs of 2 M-B flashers:eek:

I have a Hatwire complete wire set, the main fuse box came with a no-load flasher because I told them I was using Led's, works perfect. Give them a call, maybe they will email a schematic to you..417-623-7239

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Originally Posted by IC2

Matt - I'm sure that the M-B flashers can be reverse 'engineered', but here again, we are getting into complications - and on a street rod, K.I.S.S. is my method of doing this car - and I'm already contemplating some simplifications. Then - the costs of 2 M-B flashers:eek:

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Dave, I've installed LED lights on Harleys for many years, the simplest (K.I.S.S.) way is to use the resistors. They can be spliced into the wiring circuit anywhere between the light assembly and the fuse panel or flasher. Sounds like you're trying to re-engineer the system (not following the Keep It Simple-Stupid method) to eliminate the simple 'clap trap', JMO

Mike

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Originally Posted by Mike52

Dave, I've installed LED lights on Harleys for many years, the simplest (K.I.S.S.) way is to use the resistors. They can be spliced into the wiring circuit anywhere between the light assembly and the fuse panel or flasher. Sounds like you're trying to re-engineer the system (not following the Keep It Simple-Stupid method) to eliminate the simple 'clap trap', JMO

Mike

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Mike - changing from a conventional little round aluminum can to a nice little square plastic box and plugging it into my module in exactly the same place for sure is not clap trap. Hanging a pair of nice big resistors (heat sinks) out in the signal light line somewhere is an invitation for trouble. A couple of folks here have made other suggestions - and while they are not incorrect in what they are suggesting, their fixes are not what I'm hoping for. As far as reengineering - that's exactly the basis for this thread - and if you reread my opening thread, you will see my statement of intent.

Dave, I wasn’t criticizing your methods or your intentions, sorry if it came across that way. The resistors that come with the HD LED lights are relatively small and that's what I was basing the response on, maybe the resistors for your lights are different. My experience has been to cleverly hide the resistor installation while still allowing some air circulation to help keep them from getting too hot. BTW, I’m also a believer in the KISS principle but my wife claims I can ‘over simplify’ anything………...:confused:

Mike

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Originally Posted by Mike52

Dave, I wasn’t criticizing your methods or your intentions, sorry if it came across that way. The resistors that come with the HD LED lights are relatively small and that's what I was basing the response on, maybe the resistors for your lights are different. My experience has been to cleverly hide the resistor installation while still allowing some air circulation to help keep them from getting too hot. BTW, I’m also a believer in the KISS principle but my wife claims I can ‘over simplify’ anything………...:confused:

Mike

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Not a problem Mike. It just looked like you hadn't read the entire thread - and I'm guilty often of that - and wanted to let you know that a bunch of mods was not in my future

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Originally Posted by IC2

Matt - I'm sure that the M-B flashers can be reverse 'engineered', but here again, we are getting into complications - and on a street rod, K.I.S.S. is my method of doing this car - and I'm already contemplating some simplifications. Then - the costs of 2 M-B flashers:eek:

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that's way too expensive if you need 2 of them for your car... on the MB they use 1 and must think they last forever because they put them under the woodgrain panel where the shifter is, as well as the window switches..

Dave, last night I was browsing thru a Speedway catalog and saw the flashers for LED lights that JC mentioned in post #7.
#910-64110, 2 Prong
#910-64112, 3 Prong
#910-64114, 5 Prong for Haywire harness
All 3 are the same price, $14.99

Mike

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Originally Posted by Mike52

Dave, last night I was browsing thru a Speedway catalog and saw the flashers for LED lights that JC mentioned in post #7.
#910-64110, 2 Prong
#910-64112, 3 Prong
#910-64114, 5 Prong for Haywire harness
All 3 are the same price, $14.99

Mike

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Thanks Mike