Battery or Alternator bad?

It never ends. I was working on the car the other night and sparked the postive post on the rear of my 1 wire alternator. Thought nothing of it.

Tonight I go out and window, fan radio all work, but when I went to turn the starter. It 'clicks!" Battery shows 12-14 volts. Connections at starter and battery are all solid and tight.

Jumped the battery and it fired up. Let it run for 20 minutes while timing car and checking for coolant leaks (just put in new Spal fan sensor and coolant).

After 20 minutes, I turned it off. Went to start it a few minutes later and same "clicks" from the starter again. Jumped it and fired right up.

1. Do you think I fried the alternator when I sparked it the other night with a wrench?

2. How can I test the 1 wire alternator to see if it's putting out volts to the battery? Any way to use my hand held volt meter?

3. Or do you think it is my battery that is bad?

hay bucs hook up your volt meter to the battery read the voltage should be about 12.2 to 12.5 start the eng at about 2000 rpm should be 13.9 to 14.2 if the alt is working hope that helps ted

NAPA (and I assume the other parts chains) have an alternator checking machine. Take the alternator there and have it checked out. It sounds like you fried the alternator (diode) and its now draining the battery.

Do you have a voltmeter or ammeter on your dash? If so, what are you getting there?

Don

Great info.

Don- I have a voltmeter on my dash. Since I run a one wire alternator I thought I heard somewhere that that just takes the reading from the battery/alternator combined so it's hard to tell which is bad???
My understanding is when you run a 3 wire alternator you get a better reading of the alternator since the reading comes only from the alternator and not the battery. Anyone know?

Also, I know I can take the alternator into Auto Zone and they can test it, off the car. Is there anyway I can test it ON MY CAR with my voltmeter? Ted, I know you said to get battery read then start car and take another read.....Is there any way to take a reading direct from the alternator? I assume that is all Auto Zone would do. Right?

Sorry guy's. I really like learning this stuff!

one wire alternators are great.....


for forklifts & tractors. A 3 wire setup gives you a better system. The alternator charges when it starts spinning, not waiting until you "wing" the motor. Also, with a 3 wire, the regulator gets a voltage sense signal, and actually knows (about) what to charge, as opposed to the one wire, which charges at a predetermined rate.

Take your test meter & check the alternator, once you have the alt spinning enough to charge. It should be 13.8-14.2 volts. If so it's operating. Next step would be to have the unit checked at your local parts store. If they have a good test unit, it should be able to tell you if you have a bad diode.

While you're at it, have 'em load test the battery as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fitzwell

Take your test meter & check the alternator, once you have the alt spinning enough to charge. It should be 13.8-14.2 volts.

---

How do I check the alternator? At the battery like mentioned above? or can I put my voltmeter direct to the alternator some how?

Whew!
What the other guys are saying:
1. Take your volt meter and measure the battery voltage with the engine OFF. Put the + lead on the positive battery terminal and the - lead on the negative terminal. Write down the voltage reading.
2. Start the engine and rev it slightly to get the alternator going (one wire alternators take rpm to start). Let the engine go back to idle. On the back of the alternator is a big terminal lug...the one you touched to make a spark and start this in the first place. Put your + voltmeter lead on this and the - voltmeter lead on the battery negative OR any other ground....like the intake manifold. Read the voltage. Write it down
3. Compare the two readings. When you charge a battery, the charging voltage must be greater than the battery voltage....battery voltage is roughly 12 VDC and the charging voltage out of the alternator should be in the 13.8 to 14 ish range. If the alternator is not putting out more than 12 volts, suspect the alternator.
4. Another way to test the alternator (poor man's test) is to start the engine, rev it to get the alternator started, and then disconnect the battery. If the engine runs on the alternator, then the alternator is putting out some energy...maybe not enough but if the alternator is completely dead, the engine will not run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robot

Whew!
What the other guys are saying:
1. Take your volt meter and measure the battery voltage with the engine OFF. Put the + lead on the positive battery terminal and the - lead on the negative terminal. Write down the voltage reading.
2. Start the engine and rev it slightly to get the alternator going (one wire alternators take rpm to start). Let the engine go back to idle. On the back of the alternator is a big terminal lug...the one you touched to make a spark and start this in the first place. Put your + voltmeter lead on this and the - voltmeter lead on the battery negative OR any other ground....like the intake manifold. Read the voltage. Write it down
3. Compare the two readings. When you charge a battery, the charging voltage must be greater than the battery voltage....battery voltage is roughly 12 VDC and the charging voltage out of the alternator should be in the 13.8 to 14 ish range. If the alternator is not putting out more than 12 volts, suspect the alternator.
4. Another way to test the alternator (poor man's test) is to start the engine, rev it to get the alternator started, and then disconnect the battery. If the engine runs on the alternator, then the alternator is putting out some energy...maybe not enough but if the alternator is completely dead, the engine will not run.

---

spot on.....until # 4.

DO NOT disconnect the battery cable while the engine is running & reconnect it. The resulting voltage spike can (and will) kill anything electronic sensative in the vehicle. That was a test that kinda worked in the 40's-early 60's.

the other poor man test is take a small screwdriver, and carefully place it near the rear bearing, while the unit is spinning. If there is a magnetic field that pulls the blade in, the unit is charging, although it's kinda hard to tell how much.

one last test would be to check the ground side of the system. Check voltage across the battery & write that # down. Now,place the + probe on the positive post, the ground probe to the point where your ground cable attaches & check that. More than about 1/10 of a volt difference, you need to check the ground side of the system.


and, as always,

just my .02 :D

Bucks, do you have a battery charger? If the alternator is good, charge the battery and see if it keeps it's charge. Sounds like , if it isn't the alternator(which is the most likely suspect, given the spark) that maybe you have a drain in your system related to the electric fan hookup, or any other new wiring. If you take the battery to Autozone with the alternator, you can kill two birds, with one stone, so to speak!

AutoZone Just schooled me I guess..........

I was at home, jumped the car. Removed cables and let it idle. Removed the Negative battery cable and the car did not skip a beat. Ran just fine.

Took the battery to Autozone to have them test it. Told him what I did. He said "no make no difference at all!" Unless I am running an old generator and NOT an alternator, my test I did means nothing. He hooked it up to see if he could get a read. Dead. He said the battery is only 3 months old so 95% sure it's not the battery."
**)

I took a one wire alternator to Advance Discount one time to be tested and they didn't know how to hook it up to their machine. They had plugs for every other alternator setup, but not one wire. So, you might run into that.

If you have a dash voltmeter, simply turn on the key and note the voltage. If it reads 10.5 or more it should crank. If you get it started, bring the rpms up a little and the voltmeter should rise to almost 14 volts or thereabouts.

Don

Just called Auto Zone and got results- They charged the battery for 75 minutes and did a load test. All is well with the battery.

Guess I need to take my alternator in and see what it tests!

I've either misread your post, or somethings not making sense. Even if the battery is discharged enough to not turn over the engine, and, the cells are all ok. You should still get a 12 volt reading, if it's sealed battery your pretty well done. If it has caps, you can check from cell to cell and find the bad one, just to satisfy yourself and know it's the battery or not. The alt, is it a GM? If so, take a look at the rear case and look for a 'D' shaped hole. It will be about 5/16th to 3/8th across at the flat side of the 'D'. If you can look in the D hole, you should be able to see the backside of the voltage regulator. With a battery hooked up and everything ready to go, have the engine running at an idle. Using a small screwdriver or metal probe, ground the case at the 'D' hole and the back of the regulator. If the alt is working, you will get 16 to 16.6 volts on the gauge or meter. You will only need to do this for 2 or 3 seconds to make the test. What you are doing is, bypassing the regulator, and causing the alt to put out full voltage. If the test shows the 16 volts or so when the probe is applied, and then returns to the 13.6 to 14.4 volt range, you know then, that the alt is working, and the regulator is working. This leaves the battery as the faulty part. The part that makes me wonder is, you would get the solenode to click at first, but tested out of the car it was dead. An open circuit in the battery? Sniper

While I was speeding along with the two finger hunt and peck typing method I use, you said you received word that the battery is ok. As mentioned in a earlier post, it might be wise to check for a draw in the system. Take your meter and hook it up between the + cable and + post. Hook up the ground to the ground battery post. The meter should read around 2 or 3 volts, now take a test light, and touch it across the + cable end and the + battery post. The meter should drop off to 0, and the light shouldn't come on. If the light comes on and the meter reads a voltage, you have a draw. Leave the light and meter hooked up as is, and start pulling fuses one at a time, until the meter and the light go out. As soon as the light goes out stick the fuse back in, if it lights, you have found your circuit that the draw is on. Now it's a matter of finding what the cause is. Sniper

one more thing to check run a jumper wire from the alt case to ground the alt has to br grounded I had a couple of times diy ers came to my shop after puting in new motors thr paint was so thick it would not ground that will make you scrach your head a few times ted

Guys, great info and I have plenty to do this weekend because of it!

Took my alternator to AutoZone after work last night and it tested GOOD too. Got another guy that was interested in Hot Rods.........Like finding gold. Right!? It past the test, however, he did tell me that since it's off the car it only tests to see if it's putting our amps. NOT how many..........He said I should put the car back together and bring it down and he'll wheel out the cart that will tell us exactly how many amps it's putting out. He works all day Saturday so we will test it at idle, then at 2,000 rpm and the car HOT. See what we get there and then turn lights radio and electric fan on etc!

My luck is bad! Bought a nice new digital volt meter there last night for $36. Took it home and put it on my battery, set at 20 volts setting on the dial. BOTH the ground and positive wires hot super hot and almost melted! Would give no reading at all just stayed at 0.00. Used my old dial voltmeter (non digital) and worked just fine. Did my car battery and truck battery. Same result on both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bucs012

How do I check the alternator? At the battery like mentioned above? or can I put my voltmeter direct to the alternator some how?

---

Basically if the volts are right you don't have to worry about amps or anything else. Test at the battery. Volts at rest on battery as mentioned, 12.6-12.8. Start the car and with everything turned on that uses electricity, you want to see 1 volt more than battery voltage with the engine off.
I know a lot of people love those one wire delcos but I would wire in a regulator to run an old style Ford alternator personally.

I would suspect a bad starter... could have dirty brushes or contacts and a weak one gets weaker with heat. Sounds like your battery and alternator are both okay. I've had similar troubles before that turned out to be a loose (not tight) ground connection to the battery... as was mentioned before, check your ground... from battery to frame and battery to engine block...

on your new voltmeter, if you had the settings or the leads setup to read current (Amps) you would have a short and burn your leads measuring across the battery posts...

goode luck,

-Chris

I must ask. Were you guys foolin with me???? :o With my car off, some of you told me to keep my battery ground cable on battery. Unhook my positive cable from the post. Run one end of my 6 or 12 volt circuit test light to the battery + post then the other end of the circuit test light to the + battery cable. If the light lights up it meant I have a current draw from my car, draining my battery......And I need to find it by pulling fuses till it goes out. Well, the light lit up when I did this. Isn't this the same thing as having the cable hooked to the post thus of course it's getting power?

I tried this same test on my 63 Nova, my 2005 ram truck and my wifes 07 Pacifica. All 3 times the light lit up when I do the test. :whacked:

My battery tested at 12.6 volts this morning and again tonight when I got home from work still outside the car NOT hooked up to anything. I put the car back together. Started the car up and running at idle of 1,000 or 2,000 rpm's I get 14.5 to 14.65 volts at the battery even when my electric fan kicks on. All sounds good. Right?

Went for a nice drive with fan running through a few cycles of on/off. Got home and turned car off to check the battery again and now it is higher voltage at 12.84. Great, right?

So tonight I am leaving it all hooked up and seeing what my voltage reading is in the morning after having set hooked up in the car for 12 hours.

Nope, I'm not goonin ya! Ok, the test light your using, is it an incandescent bulb? ( Can't use an LED type for this type of test. )Did you have the door open at the time of the test? That would cause a draw, because the interior light would be on. How about the hood, have a light that comes on when it's open, or the trunk lid, same thing would happen. Everything has to be off, that would normally be off, including the key switch. Any of these would cause a closed circuit and make your test light come on. The one thing that may be getting you, is the plug on the alt that plugs into the regulator. Unplug it, to eliminate it, while you do your test. If everything is off, and pulling the fuses won't make the light go out, you have one of three things happening. 1. The circuit that is involved isn't fused, or 2. you have a short on the positive side somewhere, ( pinched or wire rubbed bare ) or 3. an item isn't being shut off with the key switch. ( Electric fuel pump? Stuck brake light switch? Glove box light? Radio-tape-CD player? ) With the test light hooked up inline ( in series ) on the positive cable, any, and all power flow will have to go through it. It will only light up if there is flow. Just have to keep hunting, feel and smell for anything getting hot. Now isn't being a mechanic fun.:rolleyes: I've been doing this stuff for a lot of years, and most times these things are simple and stupid. Well, they are once you find them. :) Sniper

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sniper

Nope, I'm not goonin ya! Ok, the test light your using, is it an incandescent bulb? ( Can't use an LED type for this type of test. )Did you have the door open at the time of the test? That would cause a draw, because the interior light would be on. How about the hood, have a light that comes on when it's open, or the trunk lid, same thing would happen. Everything has to be off, that would normally be off, including the key switch. Any of these would cause a closed circuit and make your test light come on. The one thing that may be getting you, is the plug on the alt that plugs into the regulator. Unplug it, to eliminate it, while you do your test. If everything is off, and pulling the fuses won't make the light go out, you have one of three things happening. 1. The circuit that is involved isn't fused, or 2. you have a short on the positive side somewhere, ( pinched or wire rubbed bare ) or 3. an item isn't being shut off with the key switch. ( Electric fuel pump? Stuck brake light switch? Glove box light? Radio-tape-CD player? ) With the test light hooked up inline ( in series ) on the positive cable, any, and all power flow will have to go through it. It will only light up if there is flow. Just have to keep hunting, feel and smell for anything getting hot. Now isn't being a mechanic fun.:rolleyes: I've been doing this stuff for a lot of years, and most times these things are simple and stupid. Well, they are once you find them. :) Sniper

---

I have seen some cars with keep alive circuits that fade to a very small draw (clock for instance) when the battery is actually connected but will still light up the test light. Some stereos will do that too.
Very often I find the draw on a GM to be inside the alternator, shorted internal regulator I suppose. They can even still charge ok and do that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by willowbilly3

I have seen some cars with keep alive circuits that fade to a very small draw (clock for instance) when the battery is actually connected but will still light up the test light. Some stereos will do that too.
Very often I find the draw on a GM to be inside the alternator, shorted internal regulator I suppose. They can even still charge ok and do that.

---

Hi Willowbilly, Yup your right, an alt can show a draw for a couple of reasons, and if it does, it would or should, be very small. At least not large enough to kill a battery under normal use. But that is why I mentioned unplugging it so it wouldn't interfer with the test. Also, if a meter is used along with the test light, you can determine just how heavy the draw is. The one draw that gets a lot of people is when a diode on the trio goes bad. If you have an indicator light instead of a gauge in the dash you might catch it. It will glow real dim, so dim in fact that you can't see it in day light, but it will show if it's dark out. That one, can and will drain a battery, if a car sits for a few days. But the darn thing will allow the alt to appear to charge in a normal manner. As long as you drive it enough, you cover up the problem. Until it's parked at the airport for a week or two, or stored for a bit, and then it's, "hey, what happened, it was ok when I left it here?" This stuff pretty well has to be eliminated step by step, if you hop scotch around the system your more likely to miss it, if you do find it this way, it was likely pure luck. Not that there's anything wrong with being lucky, it just doesn't happen often enough. Sniper