Falcon Questions...

Alright, well some of you probably already know, I just picked up a 64 Falcon Wagon:3dSMILE:

http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...120#post313120

and now have a few questions, since I have never owned a Ford before, or really ever worked on one.:HMMM:

First off how do you set or adjust the timing on this motor, I thought it would be just like any other distributor, but on this one, I loosened what I believed was the hold down clamp, but the Distributor does not rotate, so I am guessing this motor must be different. :whacked:

The motor seems to run good, (new plugs, wires, etc.) but I read somewhere that the idle for it should be 500 RPM's?:confused: but when I set it there the motor will run rough, thats why I want to check the timing.

Ummm... also one other question I have is when releasing the clutch, about halfway released the whole car will start shuddering, not really sure why so I thought I would ask, it does it the worst in 2nd gear, 1st and 3rd and too bad at all(a little but barely).

I've actually been driving it around and it drives pretty good, just those couple things I would like to fix

Oh yeah and I think it has the 170 in it and a 3 speed manual

The distributor is a LoadoMatic, uses a modefied vac signal to advance timing, no centrifagul advance and you must have the correct carb with a Spark control valve. engine should have an Autolite 1100 which will have this.

the distributor does rotate with the clamp loose enough. and should be 6* BTDC

You could have a throwout bearing or worn out piliot bushing causing a shudder, or it could be an adjustment

So the dizzy should rotate, ok I'll have to try it again

Setting timing is done by loosening a bolt below the distributor and rotating it. I have the '63 specs - the '64 should be close if not identical. The timing for a 144 six is 8* BTDC, the 170, 6* BTDC. There is a timing mark on the front crank pulley and a tin plate with markings 0 to 14 on it bolted to the engine just above the pulley. They are often real cruddy and need to be cleaned up - and often a chalk mark thru the crank marker is needed for it to be seen Check the points as well - gap is .025 with a 35-38* dwell angle, plug gap is .035. Idle speed is 500rpm

The shudder when going thru the gears is most often oil from a leaky rear engine seal. You either fix it if too bad or suffer the shudder if the oil puddle on the driveway is small:3dSMILE: . It can also be a worn out clutch disc, broken springs in the disc itself or an overheated and heat checked/warped flywheel. The pressure plate springs can also have failed or the iron facing warped or one of the three pressure plate actuating levers bent:eek: .

Hmmm... well could the dizzy be stuck, because I just tried again, and that bolt was loose enough that the hold down clamp could no way be holding it. I'll have to try again tonight, I'm getting ready to go to work right now.

As for the shuddering, I haven't noticed any oil drops on the driveway at all, its actually not dripped anything on my driveway since I got it on saturday.

Oh yeah, does anyone know what that transmission is called?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mudbog42

Hmmm... well could the dizzy be stuck, because I just tried again, and that bolt was loose enough that the hold down clamp could no way be holding it. I'll have to try again tonight, I'm getting ready to go to work right now.

As for the shuddering, I haven't noticed any oil drops on the driveway at all, its actually not dripped anything on my driveway since I got it on saturday.

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Sometimes a distributor needs a bit of inertial help - like with a few gentle taps with a large hammer to the vacuum advance in the direction of rotation.

If there are no oil spots, something in the clutch assembly is most likely worn out - my guess is that the 6 springs around the center spline are possibly shot. If that is indeed true - drive it 'til it wont move under its' own power tho clutches for these cars used to be dirt cheap - be careful with rebuilt discs though

Don't forget to set the dwell first as a dwell change affects timing.

Older vehicles commonly have stuck distributors, the hammer tap is a good idea. If the engine is sludged, the distributor probably cannot be removed easily.

Shudder can also be excessive bearing play in trans although usually first gear is worst. Also, check the motor mounts for breakage.

the timing pointer is a line on the balancer, and there are marks cast into the timing cover.

The trans is ither a 3.03 3spd or a 2.02 3spd.. 1st gear is not synchromeshed on a 2.02 but is on a 3.03.. so if you grind gears going into 1st gear moving, it is most likely a 2.02... should be a 3.03 but with with Ford.. you might have a 2.02

If it is the clutch, all preassure plates are rebuilt units, and from what I'v heard you should inspect them b4 installing as there worn out.

Shoot some WD around the base of the distributor and let it soak in.
I tend to agree with IC2, I had a clutch that had split in two
that also shudderd that way.
You are gonna have to pull the trany and inspect it.
We can guess all day and still have it wrong with out
seeing it. Is that trany is the one that the shifter is on the floor.
Or is it 3 on the tree or colum. Kurt

only falcon with a factory floor shift is a Dagenham 4spd car

From my experience with clutches, sounds like a bad center on the clutch disc, and or a warped/burnt flywheel or pressure plate...

If you replace the clutch, spend the extra bucks and get new parts and not the reman junk....

the only problem with getting new clutch parts for the small ford 6cyls are, there not available new, there all rebuilds, and the quality is suffering because if your rebuilding a part that has previously been rebuilt- it's probably not in the best shape.. What a lot of people are doing with that problem is finding other clutch setups that work with the stock linkages.. I know 1 of the setups that works is for a Mercedes Benz, and is available new but I do not know what model or anything.

For the distributor problem, do exactly what vara4 mentioned. SBF's are noted for having the distributor freeze-up like that if the distributor hasn't been turned in along time. Don't get impatient:mad: , you don't want to break the distributor housing:o ---just let the WD40 have time to soak in for a day or so and then try to work it back and forth. My buddy has a Boss 302 that had this problem and he was going to put a pipe wrench on the thing to try to turn it! I got him to do the WD40 thing when I pointed out just how much the Boss distributor might be worth. :eek: The WD40 worked great.:D

Upon some research I just did. you should be able to adapt the 3 finger clutch from a later 70's 6cyl, tho this still may not all be available new

Well, finally checked the timing and it is dead on at 6 degrees at 500 RPM's
Finally got the dizzy to move with some persuasion and wd40, thanks for help, I'm glad I wasn't crazy on knowing that it should rotate.:whacked:

The only problem is it still runs really really rough at 500 RPM's and eventually stalls.:eek: It seems to run rough under 1000 RPM's. 1000 and up and it is nice and smooth, no backfiring, popping, pinging, or anything, just idles really rough under 1000.

Still need to check gap and dwell though.**)

Alright, well I just tweaked the carb a bit and got the idle set and man what a difference, it actually has a little umphhh (well compared to how it was) for its whopping 105 HP motor.

Thanks for the help

Also you guys are probably right about the clutch, it probably is clutch chatter, though I still need to further inspect for oil leakage, but the driveway has been clean underneath the car since I got, so it is probably going to need a clutch soon

dwell on any 6 cyl is about 34-36 deg for a start
plug gap is probably 0.035"

a lo-po engine will not notice any small change

HOWEVER, plug gap affects dwell....plug gap first
dwell affects timing....dwell next
timing last

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robot

dwell on any 6 cyl is about 34-36 deg for a start
plug gap is probably 0.035"

a lo-po engine will not notice any small change

HOWEVER, plug gap affects dwell....plug gap first
dwell affects timing....dwell next
timing last

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Please explain.....plugs are on secondary side of the ignition system. Points are on the primary side of the ignition system. How can the secondary side jump the induction part of the curcuitry and affect the primary side?

Just to get you thinking...the plug gap determines the voltage at which the spark occurs (the plug gap and the dielectric strength of of the medium). Therefore, the timing is affected by the plug gap...right? However, I think
that the plug gap does not affect the dwell....so you are right.

Dwell does affect timing...don't you agree??

Yes...dwell has an effect on timing.

So I've heard of a conversion to get rid of the points, I think it was from Pertronix, can anybody verify this? Is it worth it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mudbog42

So I've heard of a conversion to get rid of the points, I think it was from Pertronix, can anybody verify this? Is it worth it?

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A lot of ppl have problems with them burning up.. however altho these are a lot more expensive, these are based on the GM HEI and will boost performance and reliability http://www.performancedistributors.com/forddui.htm

Good luck on your 64. I've been watching this from the beginning and it peaked my interest in Falcons. I have a chance to buy a 63 Futura for a song. It's stock, original blue metallic (faded) in real good shape, what should I offer? (after all the tittle of this thread is Falcon Q's) Next time I'm out there by my Mom's I'll get some pics to post. :cool: