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I have an 8" rear that needs brakes.I have the drums but nothing else.I bought the car with the rear so I don't know what year it would be.To me it looks like it could be a new rear. Question my budy has brakes from 79 cobra mustang I was
wondering if they would fit.here are some pictures of the rear.
Are you sure that is an 8 inch Ford rearend? The pumpkin looks odd to me.
Don
That is what I was told.
If its an 8 inch, most any 8 inch brakes will fit. If you are getting the parts off a wreck, take the backing plates to make sure the backing plates fit the rest of the parts (different shoe widths). Not sure if there are different shoe widths on a 8 inch.
It sort of has me puzzled.........the axle ends and housing do look like Ford stuff, but the pumpkin seems too long. Maybe there are some 8 inch Ford rears that I am not familiar with, but it looks more Moparish to me, like a 8 3/4 or whatever they call that rear end. Like I said, I could be wrong. What does the imprinting on the housing say, and is there a metal tag on any of the pumpkin studs?
BTW, something I think I should mention, the bends in the ends of your springs wipe out the ability of the spring to slide. That is an old hot rod trick to lower the car, but not an advisable one. Just thought I should say something to you.
Don
Here is the 8 inch Ford I am accustomed to seeing:
Don
Didn't Ford have a rear end they called a Corporate or something simular . I have seen this style under some 80's up when i was chunk hunting.
Could be Bobby. The more I look at it the more I am convinced it is not an 8 inch Ford, in fact I am leaning toward something like Jeep, or similar. The pumpkin gasket shape is round, and Fords are more rounded/rectangular. I went on a lot of rear axle identification sites and didn't see one like he has. We need some numbers off of it as well as better pictures of the backside and back of the backing plates. Also need a good picture of the flange on the outside of the backing plate where the backing plate mounts to the housing. Also, get us a good measurement from backing plate to backing plate.
I would bet money this isn't an 8 inch rear. Possibly 8 3/4 Mopar??????
Don
Does look like the one's i seen in some vans and trucks . I will admit it was a quick glance and specifics weren't recorded with the look .
Haha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I found it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It IS an 8 3/4 Chrysler rear axle. Actually pretty good news too, you won't be breaking it. These were used in lots of Chrysler high performance cars like Road Runners, etc. Maybe yours is a posi.
Check out this picture:
Don
Here you go Geo27T, more info on the 8 3/4 rear axle than you ever wanted to know! :eek: :LOL: :LOL:
Don
Originally created by Chrysler in 1957, the 8 3/4-inch rear was used in many Chrysler cars and Dodge trucks through about 1974. These differentials have a removable carrier, which, like the Ford 9-incher, unbolts from the front. It's also called a "banjo-type" differential assembly, because that's basically what it looks like from the center housing out to either axle.
Ten bolts retain the carrier, and the pinion spline can be either 10-spline or 29-spline. Obviously, the ring gear is 8.75 inches in diameter. Identification of these rear ends is pretty straightforward. There are only six identifying part numbers relating to a true 8 3/4-inch rear. Some of these you will probably never see, because they have not been in any applications after 1964, but they do turn up occasionally. The casting numbers are stamped into the center housing, on the driver's side.
Casting numbers 2070742 (used from 1961-1969) and 1634985 (used from 1957-1964) identify the 1 3/4-inch-diameter 10-spline pinion shaft, and are commonly referred to as the "742" case.
Casting numbers 2070741 (1964-1972) and 1820657 (1957-1964) identify the smaller 1 3/8th-inch-diameter, 10-spline pinion shaft, and are often called the "741" case.
Casting numbers 2881488 and 2881489 were used from 1969 through 1974 and were the only cases used after 1973. This is the most sought-after 8 3/4-inch version, and is called the "489" case. The pinion shaft diameter on these rear ends was 1 7/8 inches, and these pinion shafts were either 10- or 29-spline.
The increase in diameter of the pinion shaft also relates to the rear-end assembly's strength. Normally, the 741 cases were used in A-body or lighter cars with smaller engines. The 742 cases were normally for mid-sized models or higher-horsepower engines. The later model 489 cases would be used in heavier cars or higher-performance engines.
Ring and pinion ratios are primarily identified by a tag on one of the carrier mounting nuts, and the ratio followed by an "S" would indicate the Chrysler "posi"-style Sure-Grip assembly.
There is, in most cases, another tag identifying the limited-slip additive and the proper type gear oil that needs to be used in this assembly. This tag would also be attached to one of the 10 carrier nuts. Many ratios were available as options from Chrysler, but the more popular passenger-car ratios were:
2.76 (47-17)
2.94 (47-16)
3.23 (42-13)
3.55 (39-11)
Truck ratios were available as tall as 5.57. One of the advantages of using the 8 3/4-incher is that there are no carrier breaks, so the ring and pinion you do find can be changed to any ratio between 2.76 and 5.57 without buying an additional carrier. Another advantage is the fact that the non-limited-slip rear assemblies can be modified to a Sure-Grip limited-slip differential just by exchanging the carriers. The only year the Sure-Grip wasn't offered in the 8 3/4-inch configuration was 1957. In the earlier applications, from 1958 to 1969, a Dana limited-slip unit called a Power-Lok was used. This assembly incorporated clutches to give the differential its locking capabilities. From 1969 to 1974, Chrysler vehicles used a spring-loaded cone assembly called a Borg-Warner Spin-Resistant assembly to provide the locking ability of the differential.
Finding one of these rear-end assemblies shouldn't be difficult. Things to look for when sourcing this unit are the casting number, ratio, whether it's already a Sure-Grip, and whether it was made before or after 1964. The pre-1964 axles were tapered and held the brake assemblies in place by the use of a key and locknut. Later applications used flanged axles, with the ability to make slight adjustments in width by use of an adjustable axle retainer used on the passenger-side axle. The later-model axles are also not tapered, so it's possible to have them cut and re-splined to fit narrower-width applications.
Here's a list of cars and trucks you can look at to find one of these differentials:
1964-1976 Dart, Demon, Scamp, Duster, Barracuda, Valiant
1957-1974 full-size Newport, New Yorker, Imperial, Polara, Monaco, Fury, and 880
1962-1974 Satellite, Coronet, Charger, R/T, GTX, Belvedere, Road Runner and Super Bee
1970-1974 'Cuda and Challenger
1958-1974 D100 and W100 pickups
1964-1970 A100 vans
1971-1974 B100 and 200 series vans
There were several different rear-end housing widths used on these models. All measurements are from brake drum to brake drum:
1966-1972 A-bodies - 57 1/8th inches
1962-1963 B-bodies - 58 1/2 inches
1964-1967 B-bodies - 59 1/2 inches
1970-1971 Imperial - 59 3/4 inches
1968-1970 B-bodies - 60 1/8 inches
1970-1974 E-bodies - 61 5/8 inches
1965-1969 C-bodies and 1965-1970 A100 vans 61 3/4 inches
1965-1966 Imperial - 62 inches
1967-1969 Imperial - 62 5/16 inches
1970-1971 C-bodies and 1971-1974 B-bodies - 63 inches
1965-1971 D100 pickups - 64 inches
1969 C-body wagons and 1971-1973 B-body wagons - 64 3/8 inches
1970-1973 C-bodies and 1972-1974 D100 pickups - 64 3/8 inches
Spring-perch measurements between the two leaf-spring mounting pads can range from 43 inches to 47 1/2 inches. This means that the leaf spring perches to mount this differential into your car may have to be moved in or out on the axle tubes with the help of a good machine shop or welder, for correct fitment to your project.
As we said earlier, these rears are easily adaptable to numerous other manufacturers, as well. They are very popular with street rod builders as an alternative to the Ford 9-inch or the GM 12-bolt rears, because they are so easily modified to suit your performance needs.
For muscle or street machines, for instance, the 1971-1974 B-body 63-inch axle will fit quite nicely under 1970 to 1979 Ford Torino, Ranchero and 1972-1979 full-size and intermediate Fords, in addition to the 1967 Fairlane, and even 1935-1936 Plymouths.
The A-body axle, at 57 1/8 inches, is similar in length to the 1957 to 1959 Fords, the 1964 1/2 to 1966 Mustangs and the 1968 to 1970 AMC AMX, Gremlin, Hornet and Javelin. Earlier applications could include 1928-1940 Fords.
The early B-body units, at 59 1/2 inches, will fit under 1937 and 1948 Mopars, and the 1971 to 1974 Javelins and Rebels, too. Early B-body units will also adapt to 1939-1948 Chevys and 1941-1948 Fords.
E-body differentials from 1970 through 1974, measuring 61 5/8 inches, can be used in 1957 to 1972 Ford pickups and 1960 to 1964 Ford full-size cars.
The 1965 to 1969 Imperial rears, at 62 inches wide, can be adapted to 1955 to 1959 Chevy pickups or 1954-1956 Ford pickups. They could also be considered for 1970 to 1981 F-bodies and 1968 to 1972 A-body GM models as well, being only 1/-inch narrower than the stock GM differentials.
Should you find a non-limited-slip rear end, or one with a smaller ratio than desired, numerous drivetrain specialty suppliers and ring-and-pinion shops can sell you replacement gears. Gear ratios available range from 2.76 to 5.57, depending on the case number and the aftermarket ring and pinion supplier you use. Yukon, Richmond Gear and West Coast Differential all offer different combinations. Posi kits and locker assemblies can also be purchased to upgrade to the Sure-Grip differential. Borg-Warner sold the production rights to their Spin-Resistant unit to Auburn Gear Company quite a few years ago.
Dana Power-Lok clutch assemblies are still available through Mopar Performance outlets, as well. Adapter u-joints are also available to convert your existing driveshaft to fit the yoke on the Mopar 8 3/4-inch rear. Additionally, aftermarket suppliers sell new spring perches if they're needed for those cases in which the leaf springs don't match up and the perches have to be relocated.
Checking into pricing with some of our sources, we find that they range from $1,750 for a complete new assembly, including brakes, to around $1,000 for a reconditioned unit. Used Sure-Grip units from a salvage yard will probably run you in the $375-$500 range, but most of the units not yet bought up are from trucks, and thus too wide for most passenger-car applications.
Some recent classified ads for 489 cases have asked as much as $400 for just the Sure-Grip dropout carrier. But equipped with some of the information we have given you in this article, you should be able to visit a swap meet or a Mopar-friendly salvage yard, with your tape measure and micrometer in hand, and find a unit that will work for your particular project for less than $600.
Keep in mind that all 8 3/4-inchers aren't Sure-Grips, but if you find one that matches in terms of spring perch location and/or wheel track width, it can be cheaper in both time and effort to buy that assembly and upgrade it than to search for a 489 case with 4.11 gears already installed for your '72 Challenger. Used non-Sure-Grip rears are abundant, and sell for as little as $100 to $200.
As always, when you decide on a rear to purchase at a salvage yard, remember to grab as much of the complete rear as possible. Brake backing plates, drums, cables, shock mounts and the brake junction block bolted to the rear are all going to come in handy when performing this swap. As you can see, the versatility of options afforded to you by choosing to use this Mopar rear-axle assembly not only improve handling and performance, but can be very usable in a custom-car buildup, as well.
Happy hunting, and remember to leave some of the good stuff for me to find.
Good find Don and right 8 3/4 is as good as any 9 inch installed.
Thank you Thank you Thank you for that great info. later today I will check out the numbers.
You are right Don my numbers are 2070741 and where the 6 is on the picture mine has an X.And yes my rear is a posi I checked it the old fashon way.Thanks again for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
I found my numbers 2070741 and yes it seams like it is posi I checked it the old fashon way.Where is the best place to get the brake parts that I need?
Well, now that you can take those numbers and the measurements from flange to flange, and pretty much know what car your rear came from. Then you can go to any auto parts store and ask for whatever parts you need to complete the package. Looks like you are going to need wheel cylinders, a hardware kit for each wheel, the star adjuster mechanism that goes at the bottom (this might be a toughy as most auto stores don't carry these......maybe NAPA might) shoes, and drums.
You actually scored a pretty good rear end setup, and the posi is a plus. I'm not normally a fan of posi in a short wheelbase, light car because it tends to sometimes want to make the car go straight on turns, but you will be able to determine that when you start driving it. Some do, some don't. But the 8 3/4 is certainly strong and good looking. The only other problem you might have is that the snout on the rear is pretty long and T buckets have a short driveshaft even with an 8 inch or 9 inch rear, so you will have to see how that works out.
Good luck,
Don
BTW, I've been studying the picture you posted of your rear axle, and although it's hard to say for sure from the photo alone, there are a couple of things you might want to look at:
1) The spring that I mentioned earlier needs to not have those bends at the end. It not only inhibits the spring from moving properly, but it creates a spot where they can snap.
2) Your pinion is angled down and should be pointing up about 3 degrees.
3) It does look like your transmission tailshaft is close already to the u joint carrier on the rear axle. Ford transmissions are a little long anyway, but the extra length of that Mopar rear axle isn't helping. You might find you actually have to move the spring perch to the back of that rear crossmember to allow you to make a longer driveshaft. My Son is running a C4 transmission in his T bucket and the driveshaft ended up shorter than we would have liked, certainly shorter than the one in my T that has a turbo 350. Even if you leave the rear spring perch as is, I think it needs some additional gusseting.
4) If you cut those brackets off of the rear axle and use the ones Speedway sells that drop the radius rods down below the axle it will give you a better angle on the radius rods. They will be more level and not pointing up as they are in the picture. Not only will it look better, but it will give you more clearance between the radius rods and the back of the body.
5) There is a Volvo oil filter that screws right on the Ford and is waaaaaay shorter. It looks like yours is pretty close to the frame rail. I will get you the part number off of mine and let you know what it is.
Hope you don't mind me mentioning these things, but as long as you are redoing some stuff these might be better to do now than if the car is done.
The picture below shows how the Speedway brackets go and you can see how the radius rods lay on a more level plane.
Don
a company called ply do.
Ply-do only does Mopar parts up to 1952. Not likely to have parts necessary for this rear. Either Mopar or NAPA, or one of the Mopar specialty vendors may be a better choice. There is a Mopar parts web ring (www.moparts.com) that provides parts vendor listings.
I never mind anything that could make my car better.I will look into what you mentioned above.Thanks again. What should I do about the springs, bend it back or just get a new one.
I wouldn't bend it back, it would probably create a weak spot there. You could either go to a local spring shop and have a new main leaf and secondary leaf made up or buy a new rear spring......something like the one Speedway sells for the rear of a Model A. Probably cheaper to just buy new.
I think the previous owner did those bends for two reasons. First to drop it a little, an secondly to get some clearance between the bottom of the frame and the spring. They look a little close there. What do you think about moving the axle to the rear of the crossmember with a new perch? It would eliminate any clearance issues, and would give you a longer driveshaft.
BTW, what is the distance between your tailshaft and the rear axle yoke? We talked about this before but I don't think we ever found out. I am posting a picture of the rear of my '23 showing how a Model A spring lays to give you some idea.
Don
From going by the drive shaft it seems to be about a foot in between.
Is that one foot between the tip of the tailshaft and the middle of the u bolts that hold the rear u joint in place?
Don
Yes at least that is what it looks like because I am going but how the drive shaft
looks since the motor and trans is out.
If it is truly that short of a distance, you may want to really consider moving the rear back to gain as much room as possible. A short driveshaft works on some very odd angles and the u joints can bottom out against itself on up and down movement. You figure, by the time you get a tranny yoke in there and a rear yoke, your shaft will effectively be like 6 inches long.
Just a suggestion, but I would slip the engine and tranny back in and measure for sure. That extra long pumpkin on the 8 3/4 rear really chews up some valuable space.
Don