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I keep hearing that old school ram horms are better than shorty headers for trucks. :whacked:
I have a 77 pickup with a sbc 355 that currently has stock manifolds.
I know the driver's side clearnce to the steering box is too tight for standart long tube headers. So I have a choice of going to shorty headers, ram horns or just keeping the stock manifold. :confused:
Can someone pont me in the right direct to find actual tests that show that ram horn manifolds are better than shorty headers?
Maybe the old Vette exhaust manifolds were, I seem to recall that they were larger then the stock type rams horn manifolds on the rest of the cars. Maybe somebody here remembers what years or a more specific application?????? As far as which would perform better, depends a lot on what all is done to your engine. If your looking for any kind of significant gain over the stock manifolds then it would seem modifying the front tube on a set of long headers would be the way to go. I've seen the horsepower claims on shorty headers somewhere, maybe on one of the header companies sites?????
If you were to go the Ram style route, go with the mid 80's rams from a small block C-50/C-60. Whether or not anybody has spent flow bench on them to compare them with the 60's manifold, I do know their ports and Inside Diameter is larger thru the piping.
Rams horns exhaust manifolds are not a damn bit better than headers. They are cheaper, if you can get them at a wreckers, but that is about the only benefit. The interior of the cast rams horn headers is an "as cast" surface, and will not flow as well as even a cheap set of tubular headers.
In some limited class circle burner racing years back we were stuck with stock exhaust manifolds.... Sent a set of rams horn manifolds off to have them "cleaned" internally by the extrude hone method..... they worked pretty good, but even then weren't even close to a good set of headers.....Quote:
Originally Posted by brianrupnow
Supposedly, the rams horn manifolds Speedway is selling flow pretty well.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/3823...Manifolds.html
Don
Long tube headers will fit a 77 with small block.
I had a 76 and an 85 and my son has an 84. All these share the same basic frame as the 77 and all had long tube headers.
I prefer the Hedman Elite's that don't use collector gaskets. They use a ball and socket for collector seal.
Mike
Yeah, but he's running a sbc in his......Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrod46
I have set ram horn manifolds from 69 impala . Your welcome to them.
If looks mean anything (always does in my case) these are also from speedway and are Polished Stainless Steel...can't tell ya how they perform, but dang they are nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/eccSto.../9300302_L.jpg
Yes they are nice.:) Should last a lifetime too.
Don
I am stuck between those stainless horns and a set of stainless shorties too.......
It might be a good idea to compare the straight-down manifold compared to the tuck-in angle of the shorty headers. On my A-frame it looks like the shorty headers give more clearance for the steering D-bar.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Those are dang fine, but I bet the price is the same as headers or more!:whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by 25T_Bucket
With my clearance issues and since shorties or ram horns will not seem to add much over the stck manifolds I may just clean ot my existing manifolds and give then a short of high temp paint...and let it go until the crack!:LOL:
GCG
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3...300004cev2.jpg
OK Now I get it! He has a 77 FOOOORD pickup with a 355 small block!:whacked:
I'm a little slow on the uptake sometimes.:o
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrod46
Yes - Ford body BUT Chevy HEART!:rolleyes:
I have some of those Speedway Ram's horn manifolds on my coupe. I repaced my block hugger headers with them for more of a traditional look. I don't fel like I lost any power by switching to them. They come in cast iron, polished stainless, or "as cast" stainless. Those are the one I have.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/983...07smallxj7.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3...08smalllp5.jpg
Gastrick, Thanks for the great pictures of the Speedway ramshorns relative to the steering. It does look like they are tucked back more than the stock ramshorns which come straight down.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
A call to Speedway revealed that the Speedway Rams horns are 1/2" less wide than the shorty headers at the dimension "A" in their chart and 1" shorter than the tube headers in the "B" dimension. I may have to get the Rams Horns because I have less than 1/16" clearance between the outer tube of the middle cylinders and the edge of the fiberglass fender. While I could carve out a "relief" in the fiberglass fender with a Dremel tool, my experience cutting the 'glass body for a curved path offers a chance for a gosh-awful gaping cut which I would like to avoid. Hopefully I will be able to sell my tube headers (ceramic coated) and recoup some of my loss but it looks like I need the added clearance of the Speedway Rams Horns to prevent charring the 'class along the edge of the fender. I tried to get a picture but the camera is not cooperating so all I can say is that the tube header is actually touching the inner edge of the fender so it looks like I need that 1/2" of cleanance which will also give more clearance for the steering D-bar and of course stainless is forever.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
About as close as Damn is to swearing!!! Thats what you get with stock rams horns on a small block in a model A with Vega cross steering and a stock model A frame (boxed). ---That curvy thing on the left side of the photo is the hook on top of my trouble light. Everything clears, and it steers fine, but Man, it is tight.---Brian----( Don---the inside edge of my fenders and splash aprons set flush with the inside of the frame rail.)
according to my dad, the small block chevy and big block chevy motors exhaust flows better going upward directly from the port. might be the reason alot of rdagster headers on chevy motors designed come out then point upward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianrupnow
Okay you got me beat for a tight fit.:eek:
I was raised to beleive tube headers were the only way to go, but maybe ram horns are just as good!:3dSMILE:
Brian, Thanks for the repeat picture. I remembered that you have the extra universal joint in your steering but I did not know if that old thread was still on the Forum. That shows the straight down part of the stock rams horn. It looks like I will have to get the Speedway type.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
The wrecking yard pieces are pretty ugly. For the same prices, I found cleaned up rams horns on Ebay, painted 1,200 degree paint. I looked at the Speedway units. Nice. Also, new, choice of SS. Just do not put any nice exhaust on an engine for break in. Due to red hot temps, breakin will turn
any this a diff color (ie chrome and SS to blue).
I have yet to see any high temperature paint that stays good longer than a year. The ONLY coatings that seem to stand up are chrome, Jet-Hot Ceramic, or stainless steel headers.
Well the weather was nice today so I decided to cut reliefs out of the inner edges of the fenders around the two center tubes of my existing ceramic coated headers. That saves about $400 for the rams horns and now I can proceed with installation of the steering column.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Pictures Don----we want pictures---Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Shillady
OK Brian, Thanks for all your good suggestions. I had problems with my camera; it seems to need fresh batteries to download to the PC. Anyway after my previous adventure with cutting fiberglass I was VERY aprehensive about this simple relief and yes it did not go perfectly but the relief will be inside of the edge of the hood. For the folks following Bebop construction the good news is that the Brookville motor mounts seem high enough that there is good clearance between the tube header and the frame rail. From the Bebops point of view the fender edge covers the frame rail with an excess of about 1/2" more or less. I cut a pattern from cardboard but even then my hand is not very steady with the Dremel carving tool. I am sorry to make a big deal out of this but I hate to cut up the 'glass, especially after painting! Here is the first picture showing the problem with the tube header touching the edge of the fender edge. As far as I know, fiberglass will burn and the combination of motor vibration and a hot tube rubbing the 'glass would have made a mess here.
OK, I should not make more out of this than necessary, but looking at other buildups which are of much higher quality I was reluctant to cut the painted 'glass but something had to give AND even if I gained 1/2" with the Speedway rams horn at the outer dimension, the problem here is the lower edge and it is not clear to me that the rams horn would solve this problem after spending $350 plus shipping. So with input from the wife's checkbook balance, I decided to make the "$400 relief". Here is a second picture at an angle showing the new relief-notch as well as a peek at the universal joint on the Vega box. The flex joint is slightly behind the bolts on the header-connector and completely clears the connector flange. On a previous post someone suggested the good idea of using a wooden dowel for mockup so you can see that if the dowel was a D-bar, I can bring the column down at a fairly steep angle and use only one universal joint at the bottom to still clear that back spark plug. Hey, how about that 3/8" manifold bolt next to the dipstick, I guess you all knew that is fun to tighten. According to the Chilton's '63-'82 Corvette manual (the block is a '76 Vette 350, slightly upgraded) the manifold bolts should be torqued to 20-22 ft-lb. so I set the wrench to 21.5 ft-lb and if the aluminum gaskets leak I will try DennyW's suggestion of putting on wet gaskets. The only good that comes out of my angst here is that it should clear up the argument that tight-fit tube headers DO fit a Brookeville Vega box installation for a SBC. As for the Bebops edge, I should have trimmed this before painting but we have heard that before! I was able to touch up the edge of the 'glass with a good matching rattle can color using my finger for a paint brush. As Dave Severson told me two years ago the first build has a few errors and if I did this again I would buy the cheaper full stainless steel tubing headers and maybe if the ceramic coating does not last that is an option that would fit with the plumbing I have now. Just for the record, those stock rams horns on Brian's Wild Canary really look good and should last a long time but you can see the straight-down part of the connector causes a clearance problem that seems to be fixed with the tight-fit tubes. In fact I have more nostalgic respect for that kind of an installation as to how it would have been done back in the '60s but at my level of skill I am thankful for all the aftermarket refinements available now! Well maybe my angst has served to clear up a clearance question, sorry about my stress! Just as the $3K T-bucket buildups went way over budget I started out to build this roadster for under $20K, HAH! Still I am trying to be aware of costs, thanks for all the help I get from this FORUM!
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Don---Looks like a million bucks!!! Ya done good!!---Brian
Don, if your exhaust gaskets leak I would suggest using stock Fel-Pro gaskets. I've never had a leakage problem with them.
Don,
It looks great! You should be very proud of the work.
I am not sure I could have taken a blade to that paint job!:D