Wild Canary down---cheesy aftermarket parts.

Last week I was at the local Saturday night "cruise-night/car show", and about half way thru the evening, the rodder next to me pointed out a big greenish puddle under the Canary, and said "Hey--Is that out of your car?". I got down and crawled around---nothing dripping---nope, couldn't be mine---"must have been there when I parked"!!! I drove home and parked, never thought any more about it. On Monday I backed out of the garage to drive up to the bank, and "Hey---Whats that trail of leaked "something" following me out the driveway????":eek: :eek: I stopped. opened the hood---and sure enough, I've got a leak, right at the joint between the waterneck and the intake manifold.---------So--------I pull the waterneck, and sure enough---there's the problem---When I built the car 3 years ago, I managed to screw up the o-ring installation, and part of the o-ring was not seated in the groove in the base of the water neck!!!---funny though, that it never leaked before this. Anyhoo---off to the parts store to buy a new o-ring (which is a whole saga in itself). Installed the new o-ring, bolted everything back together, and filled it up with a water/anti-freeze mix, and---WHAT THE HELL---WHATS THAT DRIPPING SOUND????? Take another look, and its still leaking in the same place. THIS CAN'T BE!!! Out come the wrenches, take it all apart again---what the HECK is going on??? I hold the waterneck up to the light and look at the inside of it---Holy Nuts---I can see daylight thru the side of the friggin thing!!! The upshot of the story is that it wasn't my funky o-ring installation. The side has rotted out of my pretty chrome water neck--after only 3 years---running a water/prestone mix, (which is supposed to have lubricants and rust inhibitors in it). That sucks WITH BIG LIPS!!! So---I call my mail order hot-rod supplier in Milton Ontario,---Yes, we can sell you a new one, but we'll have to order it in from the States---Canary is still down, new part should be here Monday.

Probably just a casting flaw and you'll be ok with a replacement.

I ran a factory stock - although powder coated on the outside - aluminum bib for 5-6 years on my 462" Buick.
No problems.

It runs a cast iron bib now since the aluminum ones are no longer available.

Anyway, thought I'd pass on a good one I saw on a 348 "W" engine I saw in a 29 highboy roadster last night.

The intake manifold water bib was a piece of flat 1/2" aluminum.
It was drilled and tapped for a large fitting to adapt to an early style aircraft hose.
The radiator bib had a matching fitting soldered to the upper tank and the hose - looked to be 1 1/2" - with pressed on fittings both ends was screwed to both the threaded radiator bib as well as the one on the flat plate.
(Both hose fittings were free to swivel.)

It looked like there was enough height to let the thermostat fit into the flat plate and probably a little ways into the hose.
Struck me as a nice way to do it and it wouldn't be hard to make a flat plate adapter out of aluminum.
I'd be inclined to use 1" thick plate.

What would make it easy for guys who don't own a lathe is that the recess for the thermostat lip is usually on the intake manifold.

O-ring grooves are easy to cut on a lathe, but a Velumoid paper gasket would work just as well.

Another way to gasket the flat plate would be to steal the rectangular in cross-section rubber gasket from an oil filter.
I did that when I made the remote oil filter adapter for the Buick engine.
Works far better than the wimpy O-ring adapter sold by the aftermarket.

If you were cutting the flat plate adapter from scratch you should be able to get the right size oil filter gasket from one of the smaller engined cars.

Looks too like you could set up the flat plate adapters from fittings available at Earls and Aeroquip.
Even so, if you had an aircraft salvage yard in your area you could probably find the fittings you need there and maybe the hose as well.

A hydraulic supply house is another place to look.

Getting back to the flat plate thermostat housing, it would work well for some engines where the factory bib is hard to find.
Even the Buick bib that has a bypass hose would be easy to do.
Add a 3/8-NPT - I think it is - fitting and you'd be in business.

Nope, not a casting flaw. Look at the third picture down from the top. That is corrosion, plain and simple. The neck is too heavy to be aluminum, and yet a magnet has only a very small (almost non-existant) attraction to it. I'm pretty sure the damn thing is made of cast "pot metal" some kind of zinc/lead/tin compiliation, then chrome plated. It was cheap to start with, only cost $20 or so. I think this was truly a case of "getting what I paid for".

Yours is not a unique problem. I've seen lots of those chrome necks corrode away, in a lot less than three years. Using antifreeze formulated for aluminum engines helps a bit, but as you say, they aren't aluminum so they still go away in time.

I think what you actually have going on there is what is called electrolysis or galvanic corrosion. It occurs when you submerse metals into a liquid, and usually the less noble metal gets eaten up. This is exactly what you have in boats that stay in the water, where underwater parts begin to get eroded away. That is why boats use sacrificial zincs, because the zinc will take the hit rather than the shafts, rudders, etc.

You might even have some stray electrical currents accelerating the process. This might sound strange, but I think they sell zincs for cooling systems to protect parts like aluminum.

Don

I wonder too if the bib is one of those marvelous POS wonders Made in China?

Some of the guys who bought chrome plated timing covers made in China found they couldn't seal off oil leaks from the pan/timing cover juncture because the timing cover was the wrong size in that area.

I'd be inclined to buy a GM replacement part - hoping that it was US or Canadian made - and shoot it with some Dupli-Color gloss black engine paint.

Shiny stuff is nice, but if it doesn't cut it....

Maybe I shouldn't be so damned cheap!!! I bought expensive, good quality parts for everything else on the car, and haven't had any problems other than this %$#@ waterpump neck. Far as buying G.M. parts---I don't think they ever made this style of water neck. Oh, by the way---we must be having that "language barrier" thing---Up here in Canada, a bib is something we tie around the baby's neck when he is eating supper.:whacked: :whacked:

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Originally Posted by brianrupnow

Maybe I shouldn't be so damned cheap!!! I bought expensive, good quality parts for everything else on the car, and haven't had any problems other than this %$#@ waterpump neck. Far as buying G.M. parts---I don't think they ever made this style of water neck. Oh, by the way---we must be having that "language barrier" thing---Up here in Canada, a bib is something we tie around the baby's neck when he is eating supper.:whacked: :whacked:

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What do you think of the billet aluminum water neck?
Looks like a good way to go.

I think we call the piece that sprung a leak on your RPU a gooseneck.
Wasn't completely sure and it seems common to call the radiator outlets "bibs."

Bibs for us are also water faucets where the hose screws on.

As well as food soppers for baby....:LOL:

Man I can relate Brian. The quality of parts has to be watched pretty carefully.....and even then just like in your case sometimes the rpoblems don't show up for while down the road.

I think Don's on the money about the electrolysis or galvanic corrosion.....but still the manufacture must know his product is suceptable to this.

One of the the most frustrating parts of my build on the Plymouth besides finding the parts I wanted one of the most frustrating parts was the quality of what came in (it took 3 master cylinders to get one that worked...and like you these were not cheap auto zone rebuilds but from a real parts store).

Not a hijack, but along the same lines;

I sandblasted the stock oil pan for my 1977 400 Ford, when I was cleaning the inside I found a pin hole. Pulled out the old MIG, enlarged the hole to a proper size, and then turned down the juice and filled it up.

CHAZ

Good plan on the water outlet, C(... A few years back I priced the whole radiator hose from AN fittings and stainless braid and got really scared by the price. Made my own outlet for the manifold (1" aluminum) and put a threaded fitting on the radiator I found in one of the local sprint car racers wrecked parts pile, and a hose from eBay....Still on the car and still leak free!!!!

Brian, looks like the junk parts bug bit you. Heck, It gets all of us once in awhile.... Allready this summer I've seen a couple import intake manifolds so pourous they have a vacuum leak thru the casting, and a couple bad water necks like yours.....leakers right out of the package... Always good to see a bit of reinforcement of the old, "you get what you pay for" . Friend on mine in Texas has a sign in his shop, "I'll never argue with a shop that sells their parts for less, they obviously know what they are worth".

PS--It's right beside the sign that says "All shoplifters will be cheerfully beaten to a bloody pulp" sign.......:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

speaking of imported crap, a guy here at the local track bought a brand new SCAT crank made 4 passes and it broke in half !

I'm fortunate to have a lathe and small mill.

I've made a lot of my own parts and never had a failure.
Quality control gets important when you're doing it yourself.

The lathe has paid for itself several times over and the mill is probably just paid for.
This is just stuff for myself that I would have had to buy.

If you're planning on buying a lathe and mill, I suggest you buy the lathe first.
You'll use the lathe 20-30 times to one use of the mill.
You can mill stuff on the lathe if you have the right accessories.
And depending on the brand of lathe, the accesories can be very reasonable in price.

You can also buy rough cast kits to make lathe and mill accessories for not much $$.

Most important fact about owning a lathe, it gets you away from the file/hacksaw syndrome.

What's a five minute job for a lathe owner can be an all day hash without one.

Dont feel bad,...some of the aftermarkett junk I bought did not even make it to first start up:LOL:

I'm setting here looking at Hortons current catalogue.The Billet Specialties 45 degree aluminum water neck is $94.00---The Street and Performance aluminum water necks are $160.00. I think I paid $21.00 for the water neck that I used. (the one that rotted apart). Fortunately, I found the problem at home---no harm done, except to my penny pinching dignity. BUT---Ya can see where this would have had the potential to cost big big if I was on a trip and cooked a motor as a result of my cheaping out.

I found the same problem ,while doing a intake chg. I see lots of used ones at swap meets that someone has tried to clean up. I may just use the stock ones.thanks for the heads up.

Billet is a good thing as you can always polish it to a nice shine. However, whichever way you decide to go, I do suggest that you put the new unit on a glass tabletop and make sure it is indeed square. Also, if you decide to go with another chrome unit, I suggest taking 400 grit sandpaper to the mounting surface and using gasket "tack" on both sides of the gasket itself. Been there, done that and 250 miles from my driveway :eek: .

Bill S.

Brian, stop in at your local 'real' parts house.

They should have a cast iron one in stock.

They don't cost much and the one on my 32 is maybe 5 years old and doing fine.

A little paint and it'll look great.

C9X---I have never seen a G.M. waterneck that has the outlet setting at 90 degrees to a line drawn thru the boltholes, and angled up at 45 degrees like the one in the pictures. If I could find one like that, I would buy it. The way my alternator is mounted, the angled ones that are GM stock would run right into the side of my alternator.

Gotcha.

Do you know what GM car it's off of?

Seems too, there's a billet SBC outlet that swivels to fit the situation.
It's already cocked at 45 degrees and you spin it on it's axis to get it to point where you want.
An internal O-ring does the sealing for the swivel goody.
Probably has an O-ring on the base.
Don't have a clue as to who carries it.

Fwiw, I've gotten to where I like using studs and nuts to bolt waternecks down.
A little more trouble in the clean-up dept due to I like paper gaskets.
No stripped threads in aluminum intakes for sure.

You would have it made with an O-ring seal waterneck.

Brian, if I understand you right on the 90 degree across the bolt alignment (facing directly forward to the front of the engine) and 45 degrees upward, then I can offer a suggestion of looking at the 84-88 GM/Chevy van. 305-350 options had this and a 90 degree option available to clear A/C lines and alternators. I must warn you about the NPT threaded holes on some of them (especially high altitude) for the TVS mount. I have found some that didn't have nor require that TVS hole. Cast iron and all of what you are requesting. Might give it a go.

C9X---It is an o-ring seal waterneck.---Its an aftermarket unit--- Do the pics I posted not show up on your computer?

At www.bigbauto.com on page 86 is the water neck you are looking for. It was used from '55 to '64 on sbc's

I recently bought a Holley mech. fuel pump for 94.00 (110) gph that
last about 150 miles. The local speed shop sent it back to Holley to
see if they would replace it. Proly made in China also. I've never had a
chrome water neck that was worth a crap. I personnaly don't think
21.00 is cheap for a waterneck. Just get an iron Chevy one and make it
pretty somehow. At least it will last.
Ron

When I worked in auto parts here in Arizona,it wasn't uncommon to see aluminum water pump cores badly corroded,also something you need to watch on used intakes.Reason is in certain areas water may have a high alkali content so always mix your coolant with distilled or purified water and a quality anti-rust and water pump lube, Red-Line is a good choice.Now,heres a little off the wall cure,mix up some JB weld (not the quick dry) and put a thin coat on the new outlet inside and let it cure 48 hours before you install it,it does not corrode,should be the last outlet you buy!:cool:

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Originally Posted by brianrupnow

Nope, not a casting flaw. Look at the third picture down from the top. That is corrosion, plain and simple. The neck is too heavy to be aluminum, and yet a magnet has only a very small (almost non-existant) attraction to it. I'm pretty sure the damn thing is made of cast "pot metal" some kind of zinc/lead/tin compiliation, then chrome plated. It was cheap to start with, only cost $20 or so. I think this was truly a case of "getting what I paid for".

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We call that "Fine China" :(

Pat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brianrupnow

C9X---It is an o-ring seal waterneck.---Its an aftermarket unit--- Do the pics I posted not show up on your computer?

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The pics show up just fine.

A little scary though.:LOL:

I was just commenting on how much easier it is to clean a gasket surface where an O-ring's been used than it is to scrape off the paper gasket remnants.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by C9x

The pics show up just fine.

A little scary though.:LOL:

I was just commenting on how much easier it is to clean a gasket surface where an O-ring's been used than it is to scrape off the paper gasket remnants.

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Okay---my bad!!! I didn't understand (not an uncommon occurance):LOL: :LOL:

A little poor communication on my part.

Not a prob.

Brian,

I used the same water neck and got 4 years out of it.
It looked just like yours on the inside.
I to didn't want to pay the $100 for a billet one
Yes, it was made in China

Ken

On the road again---Sure hate to miss any good weather cruising. It took 9 days to get a new waterneck, 15 minutes to install it!!!

Glad to hear you're back on the road,Happy Motoring,Hank

Get a sacrificial anode to put in your radiator--I got mine from JC Whitney--and you should not have that kind of problem again. You have electrolysis going on and it eats away at aluminum. I run aluminum heads, intake, radiator, and water pump, and I use the sacrificial anode to avoid this problem. The water neck is just your first symptom of a potentially bigger problem.

well brian i havent read all replies but after reading ur first post i was wondering was that water neck a after market chrome?? I had the same B.S in the past. FRIGGIN after market OUT COUNTRY SH!T.

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Originally Posted by 383 chev

well brian i havent read all replies but after reading ur first post i was wondering was that water neck a after market chrome?? I had the same B.S in the past. FRIGGIN after market OUT COUNTRY SH!T.

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Yes, it was an aftermarket chromed part. There is no one making this type of thing except the aftermarket!!!:confused: :confused: :confused:

The one i had i actually could put my thumb thru the hole. that chrome covers pretty well to hide a hole like that. I saw that it was leaking and shut it down good thing i saw this cause after pressure would have built up that prolly would have been a mess.