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im setting up my brakes now and im wondering if anybody has a good knowledge on this topic ......why are braided brake lines for race use only ??? dot does approve they say in ads that brake pwer is incressed . i have a 32 roadster and i was wondering if all braided hoses would be bad ??
Most steel braided lines say that to aviod liability. Products that say "RACE ONLY'" to aviod being sued while you are out street racing. Any product that will endure extreme heat and 500 miles of continuous abuse will easily go 50,000 miles on the street.
Not to avoid liability, they don't want to pay the money to have them DOT certified. I wonder if there are any chaffing problems between the liner and the stainless braide that might become apparent on a high milage vehicle?
My dirt bike has a braided line for the front brake. If you want to talk extremes that is the place to look. The vibration and chaffing are ridiculous. The line is encased in a protective jacket which has worn through in some spots and the stainless braid is just starting to wear, but the line is still holding up. It's 20 years old, too.
"they say in ads that brake pwer is incressed"
Stainless braided lines will give a firmer brake pedal because they do not swell like OEM rubber lines do at higher pressures.
it would be easy for me to run all braided brake lines for my entire brake system instead on hard lines is this a bad choice for saftey ??that is my question . thanks for the replys
Over the short term there may technically be no difference. However, there is a huge difference in safety factor between the hard lines and flexible lines. But over the longer term the flex lines will have to be replaced just due to mormal useage. You would not have to replace a stainless hard line ever due to normal use or rot. Usually the braided lines are used only for joining a caliper or axle that is free to move relative to the frame, steel or stainless hard lines everywhere else.
Kitz
I'm with Kitz on this one. I use either steel or stainless steel lines on the frame, the stainless braid from the frame to the brake calipers....
I was always told that if you use braided line threw out it will affect your pedal height when braking because of the line pressure expanding the lining in the hose instead of getting all the pressure to the caliper. I personally use stainless hard line everywhere, then just a short jumper to the caliper.
Russell (Edelbrock) make DOT lines from the frame to caliper. When I originally set up my current project car brake system, I used "for race only" lines but since then have changed to DOT - if for no other reason, NY State wants to see that tag on them. The rest of my lines are all stainless hard lines with AN fittings. I would not choose to make up high pressure lines out of flex material as I really have no way to effectively swage the fittings to satisfy myself. AN fittings will hold the hydraulic pressure but I am more concerned with pull out from the fitting as happened to me when the local Aero-Quip dealer made one up for me in an "emergency" when I didn't have time to wait for a mail order replacement. (Syracuse NSRA Nationals, 1995) :eek: Juice jar single reservoir master cylinder, no brakes = an exciting drive (major brake mods after that trip)
I was able to sell my unused non DOT lines at a swap meet for about what they cost me.:D
In research several years ago, I came across information that indicated that there is a DOT "whip test" that is part of the DOT certification process. Certain fitting designs do not allow for strain relief at the junction of the fitting to the hose and therefore do not pass. For a race application, the number of cycles that the assembly sees is extremely few compared to the life of a daily street driven car...how many cars hit 100,000 miles at drag strip only use?
As the last post said, you can buy DOT braided fittings and the price is almost the same.
Ken is right, just like you dont run 100% hose for fuel line, you dont want to run all hose for brake lines...although the braided hose expands less than rubber hose with no braid, it expands more than steel lline.....potential sponge for the pedal.
mike in tucson
im looking into the ss brake kit from speedway has anybody used that ? ive been thinking it over for a while and it doesnt seem like i can get away with spending less then 300 bucks on brake lines , just seems too pricey for what it is ..
Take a peek at what Russell sells
http://www.russellperformance.com/au...ni_brake.shtml
I believe the Speedway setup has a roll of tubing - and you can never get it straight. Mine came from Inline Tube (http://www.inlinetube.com/ )Quote:
Originally Posted by godspeed32
I gave them a call, told them what I wanted to do and a week and ~$300 later I was ready to start bending to fit with all the fittings and six 6' lengths of tubing.
braided brake hoses dont have rubber...they have a teflon liner
you can buy the braided teflon hose and make your own if you're the adventuresome sort
I make all of our lines here. It's not that difficult as long as you have a good source for the correct ends for the braided and nuts and sleeves for the rigid. Just like anything there are tricks to doing it right and saving yourself problems down the road. I'm sure if you do a search somone has explained it, if not I can tell you what I have learned.
ken where do you source your parts and far as advice im all ears
I think it was robot that said it, I can't go back a page, that there is a whip test done for DOT rating and that is right. Dot lines are really not a lot more cost wise. If you were in a crash a savy lawer might question the non DOT brake lines so I would use them just for the protection. No point in giving them any more than you have to.
As far as flex lines for the whole system, it will make a slighly spongy feel but it will really drain your wallet unnecessarily. Just use hard lines. Well done stainless is nice looking but as noted it's hard to get nice straight runs. Just use the steel stuff. It will long out last the street rod or race car andis easy to work with.
You wouldn't want to pay the freight from here, but if you ever do the place is called Torino Motor Racing in the city of Orange. If you can find a aircraft surplus outlet near you, that is where I get all my weird tubing and odd ball fittings. It's all good quality from the aircraft industry. The one I use is called Aircraft Spruce in Corona, California. I think they have an on line catalog. Thats where I got the tubing for my taillight mount if you look at my last post on my truck. If you can dream it up they usually have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by godspeed32
As for as putting ends on steal braided line, I use electrical tape and go in about a inch from the end and stretch the tape real tight around the braided line, then use a real high speed die grinder with a 1/16" blade and make a straight cut. The tape will keep the braided line from unraveling. Slip the nut over the end, look inside the nut and put the thread about 1/8 from the end of the hose put some anti seize on the threads on the hose end. Then put another wrap of tape around the braided line where the hose end is. This will tell you if you are pushing the hose out of the end when you screw the fitting on. Sometimes instead of the fitting going together inside the hose it will try and push it out. I hope this makes sense to you I am not a very good writer.
As for as the hard line goes I always use stainless tubing, it is seamless so it eliminates the possibility of a seam splitting under pressure. Buy the beast flaring tool you can, mine is at work but Monday I will get the name for you. Also the tubing bender is important, get Good de burring tool. I will give you the names of the manufactures of everything I use and photos. I can't tell you how important these pieces of equipment are, I have about (I'm guessing) 40 hours in my plumbing in my truck. Of course this is just my opinion.
I use a small hose clamp over the braid to keep it from unraveling. (thanks to a suggestion on this board) Loosen the clamp as you push the hose in.
There's also a very nice tool that's worth the investment if you assemble hose very often.
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/koultool.htm