Need help straightening van floor

I bought an 88 Chevy Astro today that has some crash damage. I want to fix it my self but I need some suggestions first. The crash damage is in the center of the back doors and it folded the floor in. I plan on straightening it or getting it close to straight then cut out the damage and replace the damaged area with a donor floor. I have another van that I can get for free that I will use for replacemnet parts.

My options as now are:

Bury a piece of steel in concrete with a ring welded to it. I would hook my come-a-long to the ring and the other end to the van. The idea is to pull out the damage.

Or. Weld a piece of steel between the frame rails and use a bottle jack to push out the damage. I can dismantle my press and use its 12 ton bottle jack.

I got the van for 295 dollars and it runs good. I plan on using it for my work, family and parts chaser van. One day I will put in a V8 that I have sitting around.

I have pulled off the back bumper and took out the floor mat. I will try to get some better pictures tomorrow.

Thanks
Lon

That was a hard hit. You will never pull that out with a com-a-long. The van will need to be strapped into a frame machine to even come close to pulling that correctly. DON'T try to push it out with a jack and bar between the rails. All you will do is further bend the rails.
I would suggest taking it to a competent autobody/frame repair shop. If the job doesn't have to be perfect you may be surprised by how cheaply they will do it for you. If you have everything stripped off and it is ready to go you could have it back in a couple of hours.
Mark

None of the inner structure was damaged. The frame rails are straight and it drives better than a lot of cars I have driven recently. I thought of going to a body shop but, but I have friends that get me into trouble. We (my neighbor and my best friend) were discussing chaining it to my neighbor's skid steer and a telephone pole and straightening it that way. That idea was thrown out by me. It was the middle vehicle in a three car wreck. The front is smashed as well but it is all cosmetic. I want to fix it as cheaply as possible. But I want it right. I know those are two different concepts.

Astroracer how is your van coming along? I have followed its progress but not recently.

I can understand the "cheap" thing but you will probably do more damage to the van by beating and tugging on it with jury rigged equipment then a nice slow pull on a frame machine. The thing is, the frame machine will hold the van as it is pulling out the dent. There is a lot to be said for that. If there is no structural damage it should go pretty easy and quick.
Another point to think about is, if there is no strutural damage, just cut it out and put in a new piece. Why go to all the work of straightening if you can simply replace the panel.

Thanks for asking about Bad Ast... I haven't been working on it. I lost my job (it was good job) in early December due to another company buy-out/cleaning house of our engineering and design division. I have been doing other things, working on customer projects and trying to find a new job since then. No time to play now. I'll get back on it though, I have hooked up with a fellow from California and we are in the process of setting up/starting a muscle car design and build company. We have a long way to go but it is really falling into place so hopefully, in a year or so, I won't need to work for someone else...
Mark

Cutting out the donor section was my original intent. I'm trying to get as many ideas of what to do as possible. I'm getting my donor van (94 Cargo straight body bad drivetrain) from work. We are relocating our office and they want it gone. Problem is they cant find the title. And I want a window van because my daughter has been sitting sideways looking out the driver's window of my wife's extended cab S-10. Its time she has a panoramic view on long trips.

When I'm done with robbing parts of off the Cargo van I want to put in a Big Block Chevy. My idea is to mount the motor trans and rear to seperate frame that will fit into the frame rails of the Astro. The new sub frame will pivot at the front and have coil overs at the rear. But that project will happen after my GMC's airride is where I wnat it and my F-100 is on the road.

This van (the 88) will be lowered a little and get a V8.

Thanks for the help

Lon

Some other pictures. Front damage and drivers side.

Yea, not bad in the front. A new bumper, closeout panel, fender and grille and you'll be good to go. I did the same a few years ago with an '89. Bought it wrecked for cheap and put 400 dollars worth of junk yard parts on it. Drove it for a few years after putting a 350 in it and then sold it for a grand... It didn't owe me a dime when I got rid of it...
Mark

From a look at the rear shot,you may have sucked the sides in when the doors buckled up in the center. If so,quite a bit of damage will ease tension by pushing the sides out. As long as you have a donor vehicle,take several measurements off of it to check for hidden damage. I think if you just cut out the boxed area that forms the lower latch,the floor will relax and hammer and dolly flat again. Hank

I do this stuff everyday for a living and the first thing I can say is, TEAR THAT THING APART! There is NOTHING but NOTHING that can be done, nor is there anything that can be said about repairing it until you get the rear bumper cover off, and the floor mat and junk out, NOTHING.

Get that out and we can give better advice. You will probably need to replace the rear crossmember and simply straighten the floor, but a pull should be done. And yes it will need quite a bit, a come-a-long is not likely going to do it. But it could, just get the thing torn down so we can get a better look at it.

That goes for the front as well, it looks like your right rad baffle is toast as well.

Brian

Thanks for the help. Here is the damage without the bumper and floor mats.

That floor is pretty funky. Listen, first off, the rear frame rails are pulled in towards each other. In other words the distance between them is less now than before. When the crossmember gets pushed in like that it is effectively "shortened". Get a straight piece of wire a foot long and bend it in the middle, now measure the distance between the two ends, get my point?

So those rails ARE in towards the middle a little. THUS, the quarters are in as well, as mentioned in another post.

You will need to cut out that rear crossmember and replace it, both inner and outer and that may not be able to be done as an assembly. You may need to cut it out, inner and outer and weld it in, inner and then outer.

That means you may need to buy new. You could splice it, if you do this right, with a "Butt weld with backing" by putting a sleeve in the thing and welding the gap up with the weld going into that sleeve you could make it strong enough. But you really probably should buy new and replace both the inner and the outer.

The floor could be replaced in the center only. Just cut right down the middle of the flange that it sits on. Then you cut out the donor the same way, and butt weld it thru the gap to the flange under it. If you plan on doing this I can walk you thru it. That was kind of a short to the point explaination. :)

But after you get that floor removed you should be able to jack out the rails into shape. You need to get a good bumper reinforcement to use as a guide to be sure the rails are where they should be.

You should also get the replacement doors. You WILL need them to do this repair. After you get the frame out where the bumper reinforcment fits, then you need to get the doors on and see how they fit.

Brian

You may find out why they made this thing a "total". :(

Brian

I was thinking that would be the case after I thought about and looked at the under side of the van. I 'm getting another van that I will scavenge parts off of. The cutting and welding doesnt scare me and I have the other van for measurements. I think the outer rear crossmember is so bent that it would be better to cut it out and replace it. I can see how the rear rails bent in. If you look at the side picture there are a couple of wrinkles under the rear most window. I dont know if it is just some other damage or where the sides are bent in. I was thinking that when everything is cut out I would weld a straight piece of steel (temporarly) to the back of the van and use the unbent sides as my guide to put my new piece against to ensure that it is level and straight. I would not mind disecting the new crossmember and wedling in the outer then the inner with some new box tubing inside as reenforcement. Sorry about this being so scatter brained I'm typing as I think of new headaches that will crop up. I can get all the parts to fix it for free and the van only cost me $295.00. So all of my investment is going to be my labor.


Okay here is why I'm going through so much trouble, this isnt a sob story or oh poor me. Last year my house was nearly foreclosed my uncle helped me out but it ruined my credit. I have to have a vehicle to do my job out of, I service copiers so I drive all over most of North Alabama. So with no credit no money (I'm now doing double house payments) and a shop full of tools what is a guy to do? Rebuild something somebody threw away. This van may never be "right" but I will make it dependable. I plan to do the repairs spread over time as I earn and save the money. The crash damage has to be fixed first, my company has vehicle inspections routinely and I had one last week for my wife's S-10, so I'm not due another for six months. I hope to get this fixed by then. And my wife is sick of sharing her truck.

Lon

Lon, "lets" start and I'll walk you thru it. You CAN fix this thing as good as needed pretty easily.

The wrinkle in the quarter worries me in that it may mean the frame rail on that side is not only bent in, but "swashed" as well. How are the door gaps on the side doors?

Listen, most of these insurance inspectors are really not that good. They look for the obvious, that is about it. If you can weld that crossmember in and floor section and cover it with underseal so it can't be seen you will be fine. It can most certainly be sound so don't worry about that.

Like I said, post more photos and get under it and inspect that frame rail looking for kinks or buckles, usually found around holes or factory "crush zones". Compare that side to the other, always looking back and forth in a comparison.

Brian

All of the door gaps are okay, meaning they dont grow apart or together. The side door doesnt pop open when the latch is pulled, I have to pull the back edge out and then I can open the door. I thought origanlly that was due to age but I think now that is some more crash damage. Not a problem I know now how to open the door. Even the front door gaps look good. I will cover the area with a weld in roll pan when I'm done, as long as it looks decent from a couple feet back I'm okay with it.

Now for a stupid question explain "swashed", that is a new term for me and I thought I had heard them all.

I'm getting resistance from my manager about the other van. It is mine however I want all the required paper work before I go hauling it off. I told him today that I had $100.00 for the van, rather than them just sign it over to me, if that would speed things up a bit. When the company was bought out all of the vehicle records where sent to the main office, 300 miles away.

I hope to get more pics tomorrow. I have a truck with no hood in the shop right now so if it isnt raining I will move it out and put the van in and inspect more.

LOL. I meant "Squashed" LOL you know, like an accordian? Sorry. :)

On your side door, it may be the damage that is causing it to open hard, or it may not be. Any of these sliding doors can give you trouble for a number of reasons, they are just a funky idea. GM, well, they can come up with all kinds of stupid things to do and you end up with more chances of problems. I am not familier with this particular van. I have done plenty of work on them but not enough recently to say much about that door. I do know that a little lubricant can do wonders! I just recently went out to "fix" the sliding door in my Windstar only to find that a simple squirt of WD-40 fixed it right up.

But from the looks of the buckle in the quarter, you are probably right. And without a pull on the back of the frame on a frame rack, that is something you will need to learn to live with. OR, you can simply adjust the door to match the new "customized" door opening. :)

Brian

I have somebody that I think will help me pulling the floor out. But I will still cut out and replace the wrinkled sheet metal. I'm going to ask if I can trade labor for labor.

I understand squashed, when I saw "swashed" I thought we had got on the subject of drapes or sword fighting. :whacked:


Lon

Arrrrrrrrr ye matty. :)

Brian

I have discovered a couple of gremlins with the wrecked van, so I wont be repairing the crash damage. I'm going to go ahead with my V8 swap into the cargo van. This is due to time, I cant cut apart and repair crash damage and do a motor swap quick enough for this to be a viable option. I bought the wrecked van for parts anyway, but when I drove to my house I thought that it drove and ran to good to be a parts van.

I think I will keep the shell after I'm done stripping it. I really want to do the mid engine big block in a swingarm thing. And with no back doors cooling shouldnt be a problem.:)


Thanks for the advice and help.

Lon