A/C Refrigerant

I did a site search and came up, surprisingly, with a blank. Sometime in the near future, I will have all of my car in the same place - that is, on its wheels and ready to go. The car has A/C (yeah, it's a roadster, but.....) and I will need to charge the A/C. The system is set up for 134A refrigerant, but the price of this stuff per 12 oz. can is starting to resemble the national debt. I have heard and have done some minimal research on Duracool which is supposed to be much better than 134A, and even a bit better than R12. While I generally don't mind being a guinea pig for a new product, this, if it destroys my expen$ive new Vintage A/C system, I will be thoroughly p*##@d off.

This finally brings me to why I started this thread - does anyone have any experience with this stuff? And if so, how much of a problem was it, if at all? Duracool's website says that it cure all cooling evils, but I have learned that selling bridges in Brooklyn and land in Florida can be chancy at best, and vendor protestations of how good a product is falls in that category:LOL:

What I've heard about Duracool has not been good. I believe I'd run it by Vintage Air and see what they have to say. The 12/13 oz cans are selling for 8 to 12 bucks here. I just changed my '91 Dakota over to R-134 and it cost me about $60, but I also replaced the drier and metering valve since it had been a R-12 system.

like NTFDAY said 134A is less than 10.00 a can and you need about 3 cans for a average charge, how much cheaper can it get??????? :HMMM: :cool:

I use Duracool in everything, trucks, tractor, combine, car. Works great, less pressure, less leaks, cheaper. Its a propane/butane mix, bigger molecules so less prone to squeeze out. I don't see a down side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DennyW

((Its a propane/butane mix, bigger molecules so less prone to squeeze out. I don't see a down side.))

That's a good one. :LOL: :LOL:

---

i read not long ago that some people were using propane in their AC and blew the car up, but you can't believe everything you read. :eek: :HMMM: :LOL: :LOL:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lt1s10

like NTFDAY said 134A is less than 10.00 a can and you need about 3 cans for a average charge, how much cheaper can it get??????? :HMMM: :cool:

---

I think I mislead some of you as far as worrying about price. Like I said, the car is a roadster(see the AVATAR), 134A is not particularly good as far as cooling at about 50 - 60% efficiancy of R12. I'm more interested in cooling capabilities and if the Duracool is supposed to be so good, what will it do to my A/C system. While I will be passing it by Vintage, I'm more interested in "REAL LIFE" experience, not on a vendor who might (or might not) have some sort of vested interest in 134A. Additionally, have also read that 134A will be going the way of R12 in the next few years which is one reason for the price spike.

As far as propane/butane mixture - who cares - a cup of gasoline has about the energy of a stick of dynamite and a 15 gallon gas tank will make a heluva mess compared to a couple of pounds of refrigerant**)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R Pope

I use Duracool in everything, trucks, tractor, combine, car. Works great, less pressure, less leaks, cheaper. Its a propane/butane mix, bigger molecules so less prone to squeeze out. I don't see a down side.

---

Can you say BOOM! :eek: :CRY:

[QUOTE=Irelands child] 134A is not particularly good as far as cooling at about 50 - 60% efficiancy of R12. QUOTE]

That's correct if you're retrofitting an R12 system, but if the system was designed for R134 and yours is, the major draw back is that R134 operates at higher pressures making hoses designed for R12 a little suspect.

in real life, 134A works just fine. i don't know where you got this 50% stuff from, but if my cars cooled any better it would be a waste of cold.**)

Propane will only blow if it's mixed with the right amount of air. Sure it will burn, but guess what? So will R134a, or R12. Three ounces of propane will hardly make a smell before it dissipates, and no environment damage like 134. BTW, I have used straight propane to purge and test AC's, before I had access to a vacuum unit, and never had any problems. Don't believe all the alarmist propaganda you see.

I don't believe everything i read and thats the reason i'm sticking with 134A. haven't seen anything to change my mind yet. :cool:

Of course theres another product out there called Freeze 12. Its a direct replacement for R12. A Refrigeration buddy of mine is running it in his cars and his house!

http://www.freeze12.com/

I'd use nothing except "PURE" r134-a, it works excelent,it's easy to obtain and is relativiely inexpensive. The other side to this is if at some point you needed or wanted to have a shop work on your A/C you would probally be refused service as shops are required to have recovery equipment and most have an r-12 machine and a 134 machine and if you cantaminate those tanks you have a very expensive disposal problem. every vehicle that comes in for a/c work that I don't personally know gets the refrigerant identifier hooked up and if it shows other than 134 or r-12 "very rare anymore" I send the customer packing.
Now an automotive a/c is a leak waiting to happen,no matter what with a little time it's gonna leak,so why would anyone want to put an explosive gas in one.....

I have R-134 in my 96 Continental and if got any colder in there I'd have icicles hanging from my chin, even on 100 degree + days.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DennyW

No sense in adding real danger, is there ? I couldn't seem to get a price on the propane/butane mix. I understand Canada uses this combo. Don't know for sure.

corvette64, that stuff sounds pretty good. 29.00 for the kit, and you don't have to flush.

http://www.sherco-auto.com/fr4012.htm

---

Yeah the Freeze 12 seems to work real good. Like I say, my buddy down here in North Central Texas is running it in his 56 F-100 using a heat/air condensor from Southern Air. Also has his 89 Suburban charged with it too. I would Freeze 12 or R134 before any kind of an explosive coolant. I wouldn't want a pin hole leak in the system and someone light a cigarette. Also wouldn't be pretty in an accident.

When I was working on the International Space Station radiator panels a few years ago NASA was charging the system with pure ammonia. The Space Shuttle uses it too. Most of the commercial refrigeration units like you find in grocery stores use ammonia systems, not that I'd use it in a car, just some more worthless information I've collected in 51 yrs:LOL: .

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...te_021014.html

[QUOTE=Corvette64]
When I was working on the International Space Station radiator panels a few years ago NASA was charging the system with pure ammonia. The Space Shuttle uses it too. Most of the commercial refrigeration units like you find in grocery stores use ammonia systems, not that I'd use it in a car, just some more worthless information I've collected in 51 yrs:LOL:

When I was going to school for HVAC our instructor, who had been in the businees for 30 some odd years, was asked what techs made the most money in the profession. His answer was ammonia techs, but he didn't know one that had lived long enough to retire. :eek: :( :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HWORRELL

I'd use nothing except "PURE" r134-a, it works excelent,it's easy to obtain and is relativiely inexpensive. The other side to this is if at some point you needed or wanted to have a shop work on your A/C you would probally be refused service as shops are required to have recovery equipment and most have an r-12 machine and a 134 machine and if you cantaminate those tanks you have a very expensive disposal problem. every vehicle that comes in for a/c work that I don't personally know gets the refrigerant identifier hooked up and if it shows other than 134 or r-12 "very rare anymore" I send the customer packing.
Now an automotive a/c is a leak waiting to happen,no matter what with a little time it's gonna leak,so why would anyone want to put an explosive gas in one.....

---

thats the right answer. :cool:

Ammonia doesn't explode, it just kills you. Sold a Servel fridge to a trapper up North, two years later it killed him and his brother. Propane doesn't explode, if it leaks it might burn, but like I said, R134 burns too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R Pope

Propane doesn't explode, if it leaks it might burn, but like I said, R134 burns too.

---

A few years back one of the locals here in Springfield was having his truck washed and he was running propane. Something in the car wash mechanism got caught on the line leading out of the tank and ripped it off. The ensuing EXPLOSION killed one of the car wash employees and demolished the car wash and obviously the truck. And you don't think that propane doesn't explode? Wrong. :(

You don't see any difference between 3 oz of gaseous propane and 30 gallons of liquid? The Bic in your pocket is far more likely to explode than an AC full of Duracool. Oilfield guys use a tank of propane to provide pressure for paint sprayers, where there is too much danger of explosion from electric sprayers.
I better shut up now, I'm starting to sound like the guy in the cartoon!

Guys - this post has gone astray**) - I asked if anyone had experience with Duracool. I've gotten a couple responses that said it's OK but a lot that have told me that I'd best use R134A or I'll get blown up. R134A, according to various websites can autoignite at a temperature 300F BELOW Duracool. I still want to know what experiences people have had. I know what 134A and R12 will do in an A/C system, I still don't have real life information. The anology to a BIC lighter spelled out the real fire/explosion and dangers.

To repeat my questions:
1. How well does it work as far as cooling
2. Have any equipment problems been seen (i.e. compressor, evaporator, valves, dryer, condenser to name a few components)

Thanks