Building my shop...

O.K... Over the last few months I have been working on getting my new shop built... It is 27x25 not very big, but is way better than the two-car garage I am working out of now and sharing with my kid and wife :( ... At this stage the slab is done and the walls framed, roof is coming soon and doors to follow... I thought I would move forward with some kind of floor coating as soon as the roof is done... I was thinking I would go with a two-part epoxy coating... Does anyone here have any suggestions on what brand, color, application techniques or pitfalls I should be aware of before I start this project? About how many gallons will I need?...
I am open to any advice you might be able to give...

Thanks in advance for the help...

Dave Brisco

One quick question, how high did you make the roof?

David!! Here I thought you always read and memorized my posts.;)

Two things, how long has your slab been done, and why coat now? Most of the epoxy coatings recommend at least a 90 day cure on the concrete before coating. And then you should still do a moisture check. What I did was tape down a 1 foot square piece of clear plastic sheeting for a few days to see if moisture formed on the underside. I did this in several places to make sure. If you have moisture migrating to the surface a coating won't stick. Hopefully you put down a vapor barrier before pouring the slab. Secondly, doing it before the fabricating is done would risk damaging it. Once down, they recommend three weeks of curing before "heavy" traffic. You can generally walk on it after 24 hours, but I'd wait three days depending on humidity. Also, the epoxy likes 70 degrees or more to cure, so if you have to wait and the temp drops below that you'll need heat. I used a salamander which worked fine. You want the slab at that temperature, not just the air. And the slab needs to be absolutely, positively, with out a doubt, clean. The stuff I'll recommend comes with a cleaner. We've probably all heard about epoxy coatings failing, even though the applier claims to have followed the instructions. That may be, but I'd be willing to bet that if the coating fails one of the steps was short cut or misunderstood. Like with any painting, preparation is the key, and what takes the most time and effort.

I used the Rustoleum kit, you can get at Home Depot, Lowes, and probably your favorite, Wallyworld. My addition is just slightly larger than your shop, and based on their numbers I figured I needed three kits. Turns out I got it done with two and had about a cup of material left. It only came in two colors. Grey and baby poop beige. It has held up very well. I've spilled oil, solvent, paint, water, and probably some other fluids on it. I've drug cabinets across it, steel wheeled jacks and stands, and used jack stands on it. So far, nothing has done more than a superficial scratch. I'm really pleased with it. Oh, BTW, the Rustoleum kit costs $24.95, pretty reasonable.

Hey Dave, check out these threads here in CHR:
http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...t=epoxy+update

http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...ghlight=garage

http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...ol+and+Garages

I think Bob P. was really pleased with the epoxy coating he put on his new garage floor.

Larry

Gibble... My ceilings are 10 ft. high... I wanted to go 12 ft. but it just was not in my budget to do so...

Bob... Of course I can't memorize all of your posts, but I do have them hard copied and filed away for safe keeping!! ;) The earlier postings were good, but the new info you posted on this thread was exactly what I was looking for... To answer your questions... My slab is only about 30 days old and the reason I was thinking I would do it now was mainly based on the idea that it would be cleaner now and I knew the temperature would play a factor... As it stands now the construction should be done around late December or Early January... I will need to move into it immediately and of course everything I own leaks oil... Given those factors I thought It would be a good idea to do it as soon as possible before moving in...

After reading your post it looks like I will need to wait a while longer and by then winter will have set in... I will be sure to check for moisture as you indicated when I get ready to move forward...

I plan on having central heat and air in the shop, I wonder if I turn up the thermostat it will keep the floor warm enough to allow the epoxy to cure during the winter?...

Anything else I should be aware of?...

Thanks for the input...

Dave Brisco

The key to a good floor coating is the prep work. After the concrete has properly cured you will need to make a surface cut with a Blast-trac or something similar like a stone grinder. This will strip off just the slick surface so the coating will adhere better.

Under no circumstances should you ever use muratic acid (or any acidic cleaner) to prep a concrete floor for a coating. If you don't get 100% of it neutralized it will keep on etching (read as breaking down) the concrete. Trisodium Phosphate will do a better job of degreasing old concrete without requiring a neutralizing agent before flushing with water. Basically if you see someone heading to your new concrete floor with muratic acid, hit them with a large stick until they go away.

As to the coating type, I've had the best luck with Porter and Carboline for 2 part epoxies. You can either go with a self leveling epoxy that is applied with a notched squeegee for a slick smooth finish or an ultrathane applied with a short nap roller if you are mixing in a non-skid abrasive.

Verify what safety equipment you need. Most of the time a simple cartridge filter breather and gloves are enough. Don't be suprised if the fumes ruin your sneakers too.

With a two part floor coating, mix each gallon as you go, not all at the same time. Some of these floor epoxies have an extremely short pot life before they start setting up (some under 15 minutes). Do it this way for safety reasons also. I've seen gallon cans of epoxy have their labels catch on fire from the heat generated by the chemical reaction.

I've heard you cen't weld on epoxy floors without messing them up. Is this true?

Abe

Assuming you are talking about welding splatter burning the floor coating...

All depends on the coating. Some can take it and a lot of them can't. The best thing to do is tell the salesperson at the paint store what is going to be done in the garage. The various paint manufacturers make epoxy floor coatings that will :

resist burning
resist various chemicals
resist bacteria buildup
remain a non-skid surface even when wet


Just tell the salesperson what you need and they should steer you in the right direction. Also, (no disrespect intended) I'd avoid going to one of the building supply superstores like Home Depot. Your best bet is a dealer that handles industrial grade coatings.

I am an HVAC guy so I will recomend this. Since most of these coatings put out fumes caused by the cemohal recation you do not want your air handler running at the time of aplication and during curing. Here is why. If you a ruinig a heat pump sytem or gas fired this is what can happen and quickly I may add. The fumes are cuastic to the evaporator coil since it is alluminum and copper. Second if you are using a gas fired unit and the heat exchanger is not high quality satinless (any Janitrol unit) this will cause rust leading to cabon monoxide poisoning later. Allso if it is a gas fired unit and the unit is sucking combustion from the controlled area and not from the outside as it should be. You and your building may find out what it feels like to be a space shuttle heat shield and quickly .
Now to the sytem set up. Since you mostlikly want to wark on you vehicles in winter I recomend that you have your Hvac tech put in a a duct from the out side so as to bring in fresh air this will be run to the return air so that it mixes fresh air in constantly. Thus diluting any fume that may build up. You could spend the extra money to ge a mixing box wich takes some of the preassure side air runs it through a heat exchanger while it is drawing fresh air this also dehumidfies the in coming air. All ways run more make up air than exhuast so your building stay pressurized. really helps with drafts.
what you may want to do is heat the building with the unit prior to the aplication the use cheap box hear and fan to keep the air flowwing stay until is cures.
I hope this helps.

Good comments on the heating system. I'd add one more comment there, although Billy probably only works on high quality stuff so didn't mention this, is to have electronic ignition rather than a pilot light. Same thing if a water heater is to be installed. Too many flammable vapors in a garage environment to risk ignition from a flame.

As for the welding question, I've been asked this before. I've used both my plasma cutter and welder "over" the floor, not directly on it. These have been in light duty service, so probably didn't "test" the floor's resistance to damage. For a coating that cost me less than two bits a foot I wouldn't expect it would resist a lot of heat/flame/slag/whatever. My simple, and cost effective, solution is a welding blanket. You should have one anyway, and a good one can be had for less than $100. Secondly, my point of view is as a hobbyist. The frequency of my welding and cutting is relatively minimal. Were I in production welding, or looking to coat any industrial surface, then yes, I'd go with a professionally applied surface. It all comes down to return on investment. For the home shop I'd have to ask, why?. And this from a guy who is jabbed from time to time about recommending the higher cost (meaning quality) option most of the time. And Lord, thanks for your consideration. No harm taken, I'm pretty thick skinned. Even Streets can't offend me!!:p

Heheh Bob, I just meant that the people working at the regular paint stores would know more about which type floor coating is the best suited for what you are trying to do rather than the part timer who's main interest is trying to figure out where's the best place to add another piercing above the neckline :)

Some very good advice here... I will take everything mentioned here into considration when I start this project...

Dave Brisco

I've been noticing that ,its been getting a little "cool" at night around here ? just wondering how it was going? :confused:

As of today (10-27-03)...

Spent the whole weekend running duct work for the HVAC in the house... The shop is still without a roof!!! However I did manage to talk my plumber into installing Hot and Cold running water for for my car wash area!!! woohoo... That should make those early spring and late fall car washes a little nicer... As you can see from the photo below (taken 10-23) that the shop is the slowest part of the construction, looks like a big pile of sticks right now...

As it look, I will probably have to wait until spring to do the floor coating...

Dave Brisco

I didn't get to build the garage I'm in now, but when opportunity arises, I will have a roof high enough for a lift!!!

Here in Florida, enough garages are failing that you can buy used Rotary lifts for $1200.

glad 2 hear your moving along pretty good Dave, :) keep us all posted :D thanks 4 fixing my wondering problem. :D **) :D

Uncle Bob... If only I could get the wife to think like you do, I wish!!!! :)

Bill... My shop is not really going to be all that big at 25x27... It has drains built into the floor and a 10 ft ceiling with 9 ft tall doors... It will have one 16 ft wide door and one 8 foot wide door... It will have a seperate electrical box from the house and be wired with 220... The shop is actually detached from the house but will connect to the deck and will have a connecting roof line so I can go from the house to the shop under cover of the roof... Like I said I know it is not a very big shop but it will be a welcome improvement over the two car garage I have been working in... The big plus is that I will also have the attached 2 car garage so I don't have to scrape ice off the wife's windshield in the winter...

madgrinder... I wanted to go for the 12 ft ceiling so I could have enough room for a lift but it just was'nt in my budget this time... I've got about three and a half acres so who knows maybe I can add on later and plan for enough room for a lift!

treekiller... I wish it was moving faster, but I should be moving in in a few months... I will try to post more pics as it progresses...

Here is another photo that shows the back side of the shop (on the left)

Dave Brisco

Ya know Dave, an economical way to get the 12' you want, at least in one bay, would be to vault the ceiling. It may be too late for that, especially if you're using trusses and they're already ordered. But even with that, it might be worth checking with the truss manufacturer about adequate modifications that will still maintain integrity, you'd probably only need to modify 4 trusses. Just a thought.

Well Dave, I can see why you couldn't afford to add the additional ceiling height... you had to spend extra money on the foundation (nothing like building on the side of those Arkansas hills :CRY: )

You're looking real good, I know you can't wait to get in there with a new project :)

Dan J

Looks like a great place. You will love the hot and cold water, even just for cleaning yourself up before heading back into the "wife's domicile" :D Plumb it for air lines as well before the sheet rock goes in. Not sure if you have a compressor or plan on getting one, but this is a nice thing to think of now that you will be happy about later on. I also learned the hard way that an extra 220 line is never a bad thing. I started playing with welding this year and had to add a 220 line after the fact. I agree, if you can now squeeze some more height, now is the time to do it. If you use a 2 post lift, there is really only a 2 foot section at most where the columns and cross bar goes that is of major concern. Also, factor in garage doors and where they are when open potentially. Worst case, just use the lift with door shut. I posted some pics in my gallery finally.

http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/s...t=1&thecat=500

Dave,

Bob had an excellant idea. If your using trusses and they haven't been fabricated yet, you could get a modified scissor truss... something like this. If you had the head room to install a lift later on, I KNOW you'd be happy to have it (I would!).

Dan J

Dan, I assume you did that with your CAD. Can you lay on a graphic to show the door tracks running up the vault so everyone can get a visual of what TC described?

OK, I had to steal Dave's car (don't look in the garage now Dave) to see if I could fit it onto a lift and into his NEW garage... the one with modified roof trusses :)

The drawing is not to an exact scale, but you get the idea of how this arrangement would work.

Dan J

P.S. Dave, I think it would be easier to accomodate the lift now instead of having to wait until you can convince your wife to let you build another garage off farther into your property... Just thinking about asking the wife that question makes you a bigger man than I could ever be :LOL:

Well done Dan. To get the doors to hug that ceiling is easily done. One of my doors goes essentially straight up the wall with about a 10 degree fall back angle. I used a conventional door with a chain drive opener. Pic in my gallery.

Dan, very nice drawing, I like the added realism with the roadster added :)... Unfortunately, eventhough you can't see it ithe ceiling has already been framed out with a large laminated 4x12 beam spanning across the length of the center of the ceiling height, so it looks like a flat roof is in my future... You are right about the foundation!!! I guess that I could have built a pit... :)

ToyCollector, I had not thought of running the airlines underneath the sheetrock, I was thinking I would run them on the surface... If I was to run them under the sheetrock should I be concerned about any future air leaks?...

What about lighting... I am still unsure if I want flourescent lighting because of the added cost of the cold weather fixtures... Any thoughts?...

Dave Brisco

I used galvanized pipe with teflon paste for the fittings and joints. There is a tiny amount of air loss due to all the joints and outlets I have, but I am not worried about any surprise air leaks this way. I have friends who have used PVC as well with no issues.

The flourescent technology has come a long way. I am not sure what a cold weather fixture is, but the lights I got are quick start and do not hum at all.

Did some looking around and I think I found a lift I can live with and it should work with my 10 ft. ceiling height... Here is a link...

http://www.autolifters.com/m6.html

It is a 4-post lift, total height of the lift is 82 inches with a 5-3 ft. under deck height... Any of you guy using a similar lift in your shops... Cons??? Pros??? I would be interested in hearing your oppinions...

Dave Brisco

Dave, when and if you decide to get fluorescent lights, get the ones with an electronic ballast. They are a little more expensive, but they are the direction the fluorescent light field is going. Guys at Home Depot talked us into a set of them for our basement den. They are quite a bit brighter than conventional tubes. The price is supposed to be coming down, but it is not that much more. Apparently the old style is supposed to quit being sold, the fixtures at least. Just a thought.

We just built a garage, as well. Just got the wiring permit today. Ours is 24X28, I think. It is detached from the house, with a gambrel roof. We used to have a big one with 12 foot ceilings. It was nice, but in terms of SQ FT, this is bigger, counting the top floor. We built ours out over a ravene, so we had to deal with the same foundation problems as you. We found a neat, cost effective way to make them look presentable, though. We had a company coat the blocks with mortar, dye it different colors, then cut it out to make it look like rocks. Looks real from 10 ft. I'll see if I can get some pics up of ours tomorrow.

Dave, a fellow hotrodder down the street has a autolifters lift and loves it. I spoke to them personally as well and was going to get one and then switched to a two poster that they were practically giving away here after 9/11. Ended up a better deal delivered and installed but it may just have been lucky timing on my part.