questions for anyone who knows

i am now in the process of getting my rod certified, some things i knwow wont pass and am changing , questions to anyone. does the stock gm nova master cyl have brake residual valves for front and rear drums built in or will i have to install them and also has anyone put the nova clip on a longer wheelbase car and had to adjust the ackerman steering angle. i think it can be adjusted by shimming the front of the steering arm on the spindle . i dont know? my rod steers great but am told as my wheel base is over 15 inches longer than stock susp i have to make shure that angle is correct. my wheel base on my bucket is a long 130 inches. :) :) :)

In my humble opinion, I wouldn't worry about Ackerman. If you've missed lining up at the center of the rear axle, it won't be by much and the miss will be handled by the carcass of the front tires (tire slip). Many race cars run negative Ackerman and they make it around the track just fine, although Carroll Smith did say they were a bear to push around a corner by hand.

Don't know about the Nova cylinder. You might give a call to one of the aftermarket suppliers like Master Power Brakes, Stainless Steel Brakes or Baer.

Ackerman is overrated, most sporty-type cars don't have any. It works against you when in a powerslide, for instance.

i probably will have to bring it to factory nova specs anyways if not correct , have already been advised if wb changed by 15 inched or more ackerman will have to be adjusted. i will have my steering rod bolts lubed upand a shim ready for it. if it isnt right i cant insure it here as registation and ins are the same thing here. this will happen in the spring as season almost done here. snow just around the corner.
thanks
for the input guys.

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Originally posted by canadianal
i probably will have to bring it to factory nova specs anyways if not correct , have already been advised if wb changed by 15 inched or more ackerman will have to be adjusted. i will have my steering rod bolts lubed upand a shim ready for it. if it isnt right i cant insure it here as registation and ins are the same thing here. this will happen in the spring as season almost done here. snow just around the corner.
thanks
for the input guys.

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Unbelievable Al. Government run amuck!!!!

its worse than you think tech i work for them , i have to follow the rules and will have to make shure all is ok before i can get the car back on the road next spring.

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Originally posted by canadianal
i am now in the process of getting my rod certified, some things i knwow wont pass and am changing , questions to anyone. does the stock gm nova master cyl have brake residual valves for front and rear drums built in or will i have to install them and also has anyone put the nova clip on a longer wheelbase car and had to adjust the akermansteerin ackerman g angle. i think it can be adjusted by shimming the front of the steering arm on the spindle . i dont know? my rod steers great but am told as my wheel base is over 15 inches longer than stock susp i have to make shure that angle is correct. my wheel base on my bucket is a long 130 inches. :) :) :)

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the residual valve is part of the proportioning valve, its not in the mastercylinder. do you have drum brakes on the front?

you adj. your akerman by repositioning the drag link or bending your steering arm. but i dont see why, if you are using a nova clip. if you change the wheel base, what does that have to do with the akerman?:confused:

"if you change the wheel base, what does that have to do with the Ackerman?"

Ackerman is a line drawn through the lower ball joint and outer tie rod end on each side of the car, so that the left and right side lines should intersect at the center of the rear differential. If the Nova was stock with a (not sure, but for instance) 110" wheelbase, then the Ackerman would be correct for that wheelbase. When you use a Nova front suspension system, but a longer wheelbase, the Ackerman lines intersect in front of the differential. Draw it out on a sheet of paper like I did to see it.

Al, how does the law read? Does it say that the Ackerman has to be duplicated from the donor suspension or what?

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Originally posted by techinspector1
"if you change the wheel base, what does that have to do with the Ackerman?"

Ackerman is a line drawn through the lower ball joint and outer tie rod end on each side of the car, so that the left and right side lines should intersect at the center of the rear differential. If the Nova was stock with a (not sure, but for instance) 110" wheelbase, then the Ackerman would be correct for that wheelbase. When you use a Nova front suspension system, but a longer wheelbase, the Ackerman lines intersect in front of the differential. Draw it out on a sheet of paper like I did to see it.

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ackerman steering geometry is where the inside front wheel is steered in a sharper arc than the outside front in order to elimnate tire scrub at the inside wheel. checking that with the wheels sitting stright dont mean nothing that i can see

dont know how ya'll checked it, but this is the way i checked it on every race car i ever had.

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Originally posted by lt1s10
ackerman steering geometry is where the inside front wheel is steered in a sharper arc than the outside front in order to elimnate tire scrub at the inside wheel. checking that with the wheels sitting stright dont mean nothing that i can see

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Mike, you have to have some way to get the tires to turn in dissimilar arcs as you turn and it's done by intersecting the lines drawn through the center of the lower ball joint and the outer tie rod ends, then running that line back to the rear axle. That will give you 100% Ackerman. If the lines intersect behind the axle somewhere, it's less than 100%. If they intersect in front of the axle somewhere, it's over 100%.

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Originally posted by techinspector1
Mike, you have to have some way to get the tires to turn in dissimilar arcs as you turn and it's done by intersecting the lines drawn through the center of the lower ball joint and the outer tie rod ends, then running that line back to the rear axle. That will give you 100% Ackerman. If the lines intersect behind the axle somewhere, it's less than 100%. If they intersect in front of the axle somewhere, it's over 100%.

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you dont have to make them turn in dissimilar arcs they are gonna do that anyhow. suppose the tie rod ends was in front of the a frame?

"suppose the tie rod ends was in front of the a frame?"

Look at any MII suspension and eyeball a line from the tie rod through the lower ball joint and you'll see that it lines up at the center of the rear axle, or somewhere thereabouts depending on wheelbase.

Quote:

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Originally posted by techinspector1
Mike, you have to have some way to get the tires to turn in dissimilar arcs as you turn and it's done by intersecting the lines drawn through the center of the lower ball joint and the outer tie rod ends, then running that line back to the rear axle. That will give you 100% Ackerman. If the lines intersect behind the axle somewhere, it's less than 100%. If they intersect in front of the axle somewhere, it's over 100%.

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i cant see it tech, but i cant see having to change the Ackerman on a car when you know its gonna change just about everthing else. it cant be but so important on the st. do they would have made a built in adj. for it. :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by techinspector1
"suppose the tie rod ends was in front of the a frame?"

Look at any MII suspension and eyeball a line from the tie rod through the lower ball joint and you'll see that it lines up at the center of the rear axle, or somewhere thereabouts depending on wheelbase.

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i was trying to pic. that and i can't, i just all ways turned the wheel hard left checked the Ackerman and moved the drag link a little one way or the other and go racing. if it helped fine. on a st car never saw the need.

"on a st car never saw the need."

EXACTLY. That's why I don't understand the government gettin' in the middle of Al with his project. Just tryin' to help him out.

Hey Mike, can you jump in on the Lost????? thread and give me a hand?

Set it using the factory settings, and nobody will argue. If your donor car had drums all around, the master cylinder should already have residual valves in it.

now i see said the blind man. i still couldn't find out what the factory setting is. they probably don't now either. :cool:

well thanks guys but i have been told i need residual pressure in the brake lines and to tell one beaks the bleeder screw and a little squirte of brake fluid comes out you have residual pressure. tried it nothing , drums on front and rear.
in regards to ackerman i am going to leave as stock but am going to be prepared to shim the front steering arms on the clip if needed .

pope i have been requested to provide the ackerman readings and some other stuff plus pass the inspection program to certify my car. the thing is i work for them and have to live by their rules and their requests,cant put up much fight . i will get through it but it will take some work

Road Agent ...... good on you for posting that up, it all clicked into place after seeing that.
johnboy