brake return problem

I have through floor pedals and the type of brake light switch that is just a lever mounted on the firewall that the pedal arm depresses when it is up.
My brake pedal isn't returning all the way up (it's real close) so the brake lights just stay on.
I was thinking of connecting a spring as shown in the picture here. (It is actually a very straight shot, the picture makes it look crooked).
Do you guys think it would cause a problem with my clutch if I hooked it to the fork like this (maybe it would slightly hold the throw out against the diaphragm or something).
I do have a good spring on the bottom hole of the fork pulling the fork in the opposite direction. (that return spring isn't in the picture)

forgot this

You should use two springs, each going forward from both attachment points in your picture. The one from the throwout arm is to keep the slack up in the linkage, and to hold the bearing away from the fingers.

Interesting idea, but every time you shift your brake lights will "flash"..............confuse the heck out of the drivers behind you!

An appropriatly sized coil spring around the M/C actuator shaft with washers at each end (M/C end and pedal end) works nicely.

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Originally posted by tcodi
IDo you guys think it would cause a problem with my clutch if I hooked it to the fork like this (maybe it would slightly hold the throw out against the diaphragm or something).
I do have a good spring on the bottom hole of the fork pulling the fork in the opposite direction. (that return spring isn't in the picture)

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You need free-play on the clutch pedal.
If not, your throwout bearing will not last too long.

(I've got a friend who rests his foot lightly on the clutch pedal.
He's on his third throwout bearing in less than a hundred thousand miles.)

Parts houses have springs with a short coil and long straight run of wire on one end.
Made expressly for clutch and/or brake pedals.


Good one Bob.
I didn't think about the brake lights going on when the clutch was depressed.

I do have a spring that keeps the throw out off the diaphram. It isn't shown in the picture because I took it before I had that set up. But is connects on the bottom hole of the fork and runs forward to a hook I fabricated straight in front.
My master cylinder has a boot in front of the booster canister, I don't think I could get a spring that wouldn't interfere with it.
Unless I used a spring that was 2 or 3 inches in diameter.
Is that what you had in mind?

See the next to last item on this page for inspiration;
http://www.donshotrods.com/parts/detailparts.html

Your idea seems best.
I still think the boot on the booster
end of mine will interfere with the action of the spring, but I saw on McMaster Carr they have some Conical springs that are 2-3 times bigger on one end than the other. That way it could seat on the booster surface and taper down to a washer on the pedal end.
Thanks for the suggestions.

why not put a short hose over the sw. lever arm? you dont want to be hooking extra springs to your clutch fork.

For further detail, here's a copy of the installation intructions;
http://www.donshotrods.com/instructions/5000-URSK.pdf

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Originally posted by lt1s10
why not put a short hose over the sw. lever arm? you dont want to be hooking extra springs to your clutch fork.

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I'm not sure what you mean?

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Originally posted by tcodi
I'm not sure what you mean?

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do you sw. look like this?

i definitely got to much time on my hands. :rolleyes:

I have thru pedals on my Dodge--no clutch and i run a spring from the master cylinder lever to the frame. You should be able to do it on yours if you get a long enough unsprung end on the spring. Has almost the same angle as yours.

I do have a spring pulling the fork forward like drawn in on that picture.
Ok, I didn't know what you mean by "sw arm" at first.
My switch is like you think, it's just a little lever that gets depressed by the brake lever when it comes all the way up. It just stopping a tiny bit short and not depressing it all the way. I was thinking about just putting something on the lever (or switch as you suggested) so that it would get depressed sooner, but I wanted to make sure that brake returned all the way too.
That's why I figured a spring would help with that last inch it needs.
Plus the spring I have on the opposite side of the fork is pretty strong so I didn't think using a brake return in the other direction would do harm.

M.E.
"Why did God give us a penis and a brain. . .but only enough blood to use one at a time?"

he really didnt like me, i came up short on all 3. :mad:

On the topic of brake return springs...How heavy should that little bugger be? i have a fairly gutsy spring on my return but it still seems to stay down "just a touch" occasionally. What causes this. I am far from being a "brake guy".

Andy

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Originally posted by tcodi
I do have a spring pulling the fork forward like drawn in on that picture.
Ok, I didn't know what you mean by "sw arm" at first.
My switch is like you think, it's just a little lever that gets depressed by the brake lever when it comes all the way up. It just stopping a tiny bit short and not depressing it all the way. I was thinking about just putting something on the lever (or switch as you suggested) so that it would get depressed sooner, but I wanted to make sure that brake returned all the way too.
That's why I figured a spring would help with that last inch it needs.
Plus the spring I have on the opposite side of the fork is pretty strong so I didn't think using a brake return in the other direction would do harm.

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Jack the wheels off of the ground, have someone press the brake paddle while you turn the wheel by hand, if after he takes his foot off of the paddle, you can turn the wheel freely then the brakes are not to tight. one wheel would be enough.

might want to check and make sure the pedal is hanging up on the floor board somewhere. Had to make the hole in the floor a tad bigger on one sidee for mine to return properly.

Another option!......

If you have the time and skill you can hard plumb your switch into your brake line using a "T" fitting. No issues with springs, travel clearence etc.

jc

:toocool:

the brake pedal return spring on a stock truck went from the pedal assembly to the stock cross member for the tranny, if my memory is correct.........joe

Do you have old brake hoses? Old hoses can get cruded up
. They can let the pressure thru but restrict the return. This could cause brake drag.

I started from scratch with my brake lines. . . all bran new.
The stock return spring did hook to the lever pivot point and
go forward, except there's not really a clear path now with this
engine/tranny I put in.
The only place to hook to is the fork, like I was initially asking about.

I really should let this go, but like a lot of other things i cant. you have had some good suggestions here tcodi and it looks like you gonna do it your way anyhow and its the worse thing you can do, if you hook the brake spring to the throw-out bearing fork its not gonna work. the arm is gonns twist on the clutch ball and make the bearing run all of the time and it not gonna last. thats a bad idea. if you have to have a spring, Bobs idea is your best bet. if all you need to do is adj. your brake sw. then my idea is not bad, or just move the switch out a little.
the way i see it, because the brake lights are on you are assuming the brakes is dragging, but with a sw. like you have that don't mean nothing. if the sw. was a pressure sw. and the lights was burning then yes you would have a brake problem. but with an adj. external sw. that can be adj. the lights are on probable because the sw. is out of adj., jack the wheel off the ground and if it turns free the brakes are ok, if they are dragging then fix them and then mount the sw. so its cuts off where ever the paddle stops at. you are trying to make the brake paddle go with the sw. and you should be mounting the sw. to go with the paddle. just make sure the brakes are not dragging. :cool:

I'm not going to hook it to that fork now, I was just referencing that as my initial idea.
The master cyl. pushrod idea is a good one, if I use a spring I'll do it that way. But I guess I may as well just see if the brakes really are still dragging before I waste my time, and then throw a piece of hose on that sw lever.
Most of the reason I wanted the pedal to come all the way up regardless of whether or not it actually was still putting pressure on the brakes is because I spent a lot of time getting my clutch pedal and brake pedal positioned exactly right. Now the clutch is returning all the way and the brake is stopping a half inch lower. I think it looks a lot sharper when are they exactly even.
I do appreciate all the help though and I'm gonna do either the hose thing or pushrod thing.

be sure the brakes arent draging and then you can do what ever. how about an adj. rod going to the brake paddle? its gonna take a strong spring to pull that paddle back up, pulling stright out of that mastercylender. if you have to weld a bracket off of the frame. if i was doing it and the brakes wasnt draging then i would either put the spring like bob said, adj. or extend the rod going to the paddle ir leave it alone and adj. the sw.

since it is just the last little bit that isn't coming up it would take a really stiff spring to get force on it at the very end there like you said.
I think I'll just adjust the switch and live with the pedal difference.

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Originally posted by tcodi
since it is just the last little bit that isn't coming up it would take a really stiff spring to get force on it at the very end there like you said.
I think I'll just adjust the switch and live with the pedal difference.

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adj. the clutch peddle down. :HMMM: