Engine swap Gen III to 52 Chevy

I have a 52 Chevy Sports Coupe. The 1954 235 died and I'm ready to ditch the old six and go with something more uptodate. I have open drive line (Ford 9 inch), power disk brakes, hydraulic clutch with a stock front suspension. This is a daily driver for my son, we were long haulers in the 2004 Hot Rod Power Tour. Thinking of getting a complete 5.3 Gen III engine with trans and electronics from a truck or SUV. What problems will I have in the physical mounting of the engine. I've read that the oil pan can present clearance problems in general. Want to use the trans from the donor car as my T-5 came out of a 2.8 V6. I sectioned the trans cross member to mount T-5, could possibly adapt it's mount for the new trans. Alternate swaps, 350 or even a 4.3. Gas milage and reliability bigger goal than spinning tires, though son came off Power Tour with serious case of V8 envy.

"What problems will I have in the physical mounting of the engine?"

With a blue-tip wrench, Sawzall, hand grinder and a MIG, you can make anything fit anything.

I'd try to modify the oil pan first, even going so far as constructing a completely new pan and pickup to clear the existing crossmember/s in the car. If I couldn't make that work, I'd gently set the engine/trans into the bay and note where the offending crossmember interferes and where there would be room to install another crossmember that would clear the motor. Install the new crossmember, then cut the old one out. Cutting the old one out first might allow the frame to tweak.

I'm sure you know all this as a veteran hot rodder, I'm just outlining it for the newer members to learn from.

"I sectioned the trans cross member to mount T-5"

That's how I do it too, using the 2 outside pieces that fit the car and the middle 3rd piece that fits the trans, then welding all of them together into a 1-piece crossmember.

Realmc
The engine mounting is pretty straightforward; you can go to a bunch of Camaro web locations (and to EBAY) to find plates that let you use "standard" Chevy 350 motor mounts on this engine. The biggest problem (in my opinion) will be the stock computer and how to adapt it. These things are OBDII so they monitor everything, including your wallet.

For simplicity and cost reasons, you might consider one of two approaches: (1) there are some wiring harnesses being introduced that adapt a Mercury Marine MEFI4 controller to the engine. One source is UMI Racing in Phoenix. Painless might be another. Using the MEFI, you still have the economy of injection but the simplicity of getting rid of OBDII.

Another direction is to use the Edelbrock/MSD setup that lets you put a carburetor on the thing.....a step back to the last Century (the 20th) and not the best economy route.

Me? I'd go MEFI4 and cruise.

mike in tucson

For the pan, there are four basic shapes. The truck has a rear sump with an 8.5' drop, the Camaro has a rear sump with a 5.25 inch drop, and the Corvette has a weird thing with side wings. According to the GM LS1 Engine Kit Installation Guide, there is also a Holden pan P/N 12561541 that has a front sump.

This installation guide is really helpful and is available from Chebby under part number 88959384.

The pans are structural and people DO weld on them to change the shape. The filter mounts onto the pan.....kinda strange.

mike in tucson

thanks mike, yu da man. :)

McCoy,

I am in the process of planning a Gen III swap into my '53 Studebaker. It's actually a pretty straightforward swap and there are all kinds of folks making bits and pieces to make it easier. There is a company called Street & Performance out of Arkansas that will modify a pan for you for between $200-250. They also have motor mount plates and a bunch of other useful things. There are a number of companies that will reprogram the ECU and modify the harness, or even build you a new one for 250-300 for the CPU and 450-700 for the harness depending if you want yours modified or one built from scratch. GM even sells a "Hot Rod" ECU and harness for non-emission use, but they are pretty spendy. I plan to have my ECU and harness done by John at Speartech.com. He is a real guru and has been very helpful with technical information as I plan my project. Don't let the modern electronics and EFI scare you.

I'll refer you to an excellent web page on Gen III stuff

http://www.ls1tech.com

They have a specific forum for Hybrids and Conversions where there is a wealth of information and literally hundreds of people who either have done or are doing swaps to get info from. You can read there for hours!

Keep us posted on your project, I already have my LS1 motor and trans and have been collecting other pieces, I will start pulling mine apart after the cruising season is over in mid to late October. **) **) **)

Pat

The 5.3L would be an excellent choice, as would the 4.2L Vortec I-6 from the new TrailBlazers and Envoys. The 4.2L is only available with an automatic, so I don't know how married you are to the idea of a manual trans. Also, if using a manual trans with the 5.3L, get a T-56 6-speed from a Camaro or Firebird. They may be a little more expensive than a T-5, but with two overdrives, your mileage would be excellent.

The other thing is that the front sump pan (the Holden unit) is the GTO piece. The OBDII system isn't as much a drawback as you might think. LS1 Edit can be used to reprogram the OEM ECM as need be. What you can't do, a local shop usually can. The 5.3L will use the same peramiters as an LS1 or LS6 (or any other Gen III). This will allow for the same aftermarket parts as any other Gen III engine.

The 4.2L has uniqueness going for it. Not many take the road less followed. This engine has 275 HP as delivered, and with common speed goodies, 300+ HP should be easy. As for the OBDII, I'd bet there is software to modify as needed.

WOW! What a great response to my first post. You guys have given me some great info and no small amount of encouragement. I read with interest the recent article in Street Rodder about Gen III conversions to carb and the recent Hot Rod article about the design of Gen III blocks. Looks like the best complete engines from the bone yard with low mileage are going to be Gen IIIs. They also seem to consistently get better milage than the previous generation. Although the carb swap might be easier and fast, I feel like with some patience and forum help the EFI will be the most satisfying in the long run.

By the way, you see our ride on page 89 of the Oct. 2004 Hot Rod Magazine spread of the Power Tour. We are the two tone blue Chevy under the Root Beer sign. We stopped for lunch and then watched the tour drive by. There was a stop sign in front of the drive in and it was the perfect place for excessive display of acceleration. The locals were lined up on the sidewalk and at the drive-in watching the cars come through the small town. The police were very forgiving. It was about the only place we watched the tour as we had to peddal very fast to keep up, especially since we were making and breaking camp each night because of budget constraints. We missed the Long Haul photo in Greenbay because of a flat that got changed in the rain, but we made it to sign in for the certificate.

Keep on posting info. I did the T-5 swap from helpful posts on another forum and it has been a real bonus.

The front X member can't be cut on a '49-54 Chevy with stock suspension, you'll lose structural integrity. A 283-400 fits great . I'd keep the 5-speed for normal driving. Adapt some discs to the stock spindles and you're cruisin'!

"The front X member can't be cut on a '49-54 Chevy with stock suspension, you'll lose structural integrity"

Not if you're a good car crafter and use sound engineering principles.

That X member can be removed and replaced by another, but due to the way its built and bolted in, it's not safe to cut it, for the same reason that these cars are not a good candidate for a front clip. The hat section frame rails will eventually crack up if they are welded. It's as much the metallurgy as the configuration that's the problem. A bolt-in X member is the way to go if you insist on "modernising" it.

I yield to your experience. Thanks. :)

I am currently underway with a swap in my 1950 Chev Hardtop. I had a 406 chev small block with a 700r4 trans in it. I sold it to a friend (it had 12k miles on engine & trans). I am putting in a LS1 and 4L60E out of a 2002 TransAm. The engine is in and fits great, although we had to pocket the frame in a few places. I have a Mustang II in it and the pan clears it good. I have Sanderson headers on it and they clear good to but I had to move the steering some. My big concern is where to put the electric cooling fan. I may have to move the radiator ahead or I may just try a puller fan in front of the radiator( not the best choice but it may work. All my friends think I am crazy for swapping this but my mistake was driving a friends 2002 Corvette this summer! I fell in love with the LS1. It has great HP and is smooth running. My 406 small block was built pretty wild, shook the windows at the stop light! I drove it for 3 years to car shows and won MSRA Custom of the year last year in Minnesota.

I am installing a 5.3L LM7 pulled from a 2002 Tahoe (electronic throttle body) and a T56 in my '52 Chevrolet Styleline Special Sport Coupe, but I am builiding a new frame for it to adapt the C4 Corvette IRS and the IFS. I am still in the planning stages now, but I have most of the parts I will need to do this. I also have the stock front crossmember from a 2000 Camaro SS to pull measurements from for the placement of the engine in my frame I am designing. Here are a couple of pics of the items I have and one of the car without the front end on it.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16...mcamera002.jpg
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http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16...mcamera028.jpg
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http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16...mcamera025.jpg

I've been off line for a long time working on the car. Ended up going a slightly different route. We bought a 98 350 Vortec from a 3/4 ton pickup and then put a NV3500 from a 2001 Chevy 1/2 ton behind it. Would not choose that transmission again, but it was much less expensive than a T-56.

In summary: Bought and installed a gas tank from Tanks, Inc., that was set up for in tank fuel pump. Bought the pump from them, the high output option. Ran all new fuel lines (total hassle) and had much difficulty getting the gas filler to match up.

Fuel Injection Specialties reprogrammed the factory PCM and built a complete engine harness. I deleted the after cat O2 sensors, evaporative fuel and EGR, plus convinced the PCM that we had a manual trans. The big problem is that we swapped the wiring for the Bank 1 & 2 O2 sensors and then had an exhaust leak from the header down pipe blowing directly on the sensor. DRove the computer wild trying to compensate and it ran real rich.

Still don't have the speedometer working right.

We moved the radiator forward, took the factory fan off the water pump and cut the end of the exposed shaft off flush with the pully. We then installed a dual electric fan which puts the two fan motors on either side of the water pump for better clearance. It has a temp switch and is working fantastic. It's a big hog 2700 CFM dual fan that runs both fans. We moved the radiator one half inch too far and the dimples on the radiator top strap dimpled the hood. RATS!

We used a Sanden AC compressor designed as factory replacement for a 98 Tahoe. Bought an adapter from Vintage Air to match generic hoses to the GM style compressor. It works great, but could use a bit more condensor so had to take a little freon out to keep the head pressure within limits.

We used Sanderson coated headers specifically designed for 49-54 Chevy 350 installations with stock front suspension. It works, but mother is it tight. Because of the headers we didn't fab up the EGR and deleted it. Would have gotten better milage with the EGR, so they say.

We put a complete new wiring harness in from Easy. What a bargain at $165.

We used a Lokar floor mount pedal with a LS1, 350 Vortec specific throttle cable. I bought the 48 incher and ran it to the factory throttle cable mount. Glad I got the 48 incher.

We used Dolphin Gauges. The volts and oil pressure are working great straight from the ECM out to gauges as wired by Fuel Injection Specialities of San Antonio. The speedo is spliced into the VSS output from the tranny, but not working. May be a bad splice. The PCM is getting a speed input signal, or at least was when looking at all the trouble codes for O2.

We used the factory intake air set up for the most part until we got to the garage sized piece that mounted to the inner fenderwell of the truck. That part came off and we plumbed up a cold air intake set up with a K&N knockoff straight from your local Autozone.

We relocated the batter to the back to give us more room for AC hoses being run on the factory brackets attached to the alternator, and to give room for our cold ram air intake set up.

What would I do different? Beg, borrow or steal a T56. The NV3500 drives like a truck. Swap out the original style front end for a Fatman or TCI set up and go with the 5.3. The 350 was an easier install than the 5.3 with a stock front suspension. I had already converted to disk brakes on the original style front end with a MasterPower kit. I might plumb in the EGR for better mileage.

Driving impressions: Runs great, nice sound with 21/2 duals, Dynomax Turboflows. Gets scratch in first three gears, pulls a hill in overdrive and is lots of fun to drive. So far it looks like the fan set up will let me use the same radiator and not require an aluminum custom replacement. That radiator did have a more modern core than the original, but it is 3 row not 4.

You guys that are doing the LSx swap are going to love it to death when you get it rolling. My Studebaker has been running with the LS1 since April this year, we have about 2k miles on it and I still get excited every dam time I get it in it. Runs like a scalded dog, gets about 25 mpg, doesn't care if it is at sea level or 7000 ft. Just purrs nice and quiet and the will scare you when you romp on it. Also runs nice and cool, no problem at all cooling these motors. If you have not found it yet, check out www.ls1tech.com and go to the conversions and hybrids forum. That's where a bunch of LSx swappers hang out and there is a ton of knowldege there. Also check out my swap journal at the link in my signature. I'd be happy to help out with any info I can provide.

Realmccoy you have been one busy dude, sounds like you have it all together now, any pictures we can see and admire?

Pat

i second ls1tech, i am a member and have been for quite awhile, though i am known as badtexasz28 over there.