Leaky brakeline fittings---Oh #!*&?**

Finally made it out to the garage tonite to bleed the brakes on the roadster pickup---even got a reluctant O.K. from Momma to help, as chief pedal pumper.--So, allright, figured I might as well get everything set up in the garage before I get her to tear herself away from "Jeopardy". --Filled the master cylinder with new fluid, bench bled the master cylinder as per instructions, put the lid back on, and started to pump pedal by hand to see if I can get some resistance.---Wait---whats that splashing I hear---look under car---Oh my Gawd---Looks like Niagara under there!!!!!
Tomorrow I will go down to tool store and buy some box end brakeline wrenches, the kind with the slot in the box end to fit around the brakeline. I'm afraid to tighten things any more with my open end wrenches in case I screw up the fittings.--I used a double flare style flaring tool as per "standard operating procedure for brakeline fittings"---Hope I haven't forgotten how to do that properly. Ah well, three steps foreward and two steps back.

you shouldnt need the lines that tight for them not to leak, i very seldom have to haul out a line wrench, and when i do, i'm having trouble breaking them loose. i would recheck my flares on the line for proper sealing. with three steps forward and two back you'll still get there, right ? :)

Well Brian you are still moving along at a great pace in time for better weather north of the border. This is the first week the night time temperatures have ALL been above 32 degrees here in Virginia and the (horny) frogs are really chirping all day long. My brake lines were double-flared by John York but he left the system dry since he said the wheel cylinders would gum up if I didn't use them until I get the car running whenever, so I don't know if I have leaks but thanks for the idea about the open end box wrenches. Today I used your thread on the steering wheel which turned into a critique of shifters and with the pictures from you and Csx I figured I would need a 16" stick like yours but I opted for the Gennie Shift with the slap shift pattern rather than the pushbutton Lokar. Any chance you will submit a picture showing the steering linkage and your headers? I just spent over an hour trying to submit the headbolt sequence for a SBC350 on another thread and now maybe I am getting better at sending pictures, but I don't have anything new because the garage has been too cold! Well keep up the progress reports, they are really a help to me.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don---Just for you---This was all covered on one of my earlier threads--you must have missed it. Brian

Thanks Brian! That is a great shot and impressive work with three universal joints and a stanchion, I was hoping it would be simpler but your picture helps. I missed it somehow with some other family events going on and the never-ending construction of "The Florida Room"! Still I have been ordering parts and I am almost ready for the big order of the body soon! As usual I will bookmark this page to study that picture.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

When your connecting up your brake lines and whatnot,,,try using some threadlock tape,,and dont overtighten your fittings or you might pancake them,,after that they wont seal at all.
Double flares are the way to go,,and you shouldnt have to tighten too much.

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Originally posted by brianrupnow
Finally made it out to the garage tonite to bleed the brakes on the roadster pickup---even got a reluctant O.K. from Momma to help, as chief pedal pumper.--So, allright, figured I might as well get everything set up in the garage before I get her to tear herself away from "Jeopardy". --Filled the master cylinder with new fluid, bench bled the master cylinder as per instructions, put the lid back on, and started to pump pedal by hand to see if I can get some resistance.---Wait---whats that splashing I hear---look under car---Oh my Gawd---Looks like Niagara under there!!!!!
Tomorrow I will go down to tool store and buy some box end brakeline wrenches, the kind with the slot in the box end to fit around the brakeline. I'm afraid to tighten things any more with my open end wrenches in case I screw up the fittings.--I used a double flare style flaring tool as per "standard operating procedure for brakeline fittings"---Hope I haven't forgotten how to do that properly. Ah well, three steps foreward and two steps back.

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I can only talk from my experiience, I did the entire brake line set up with discs up front and drum rears, two residual valves and a proportioning valve and just snugged the lines up and when my wife did the dreaded helping with the brakes there were many leaks. I did the flare nut wrench and thing and had to tighten the fitting a quite abid to stop the leaks and they did and remained that way. I did my own flares on many but mine or the few store bought one did the same. I suggest a GOOD SNUG Up. Ed k6bnl

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Originally posted by brianrupnow
used a double flare style flaring tool as per "standard operating procedure for brakeline fittings"---Hope I haven't forgotten how to do that properly. Ah well, three steps foreward and two steps back.

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I found out, the hardway, that if I don't use enough pressure when I make the second part of a double flair. I have to tighten the fitting much harder to stop if from leaking. don't know if thats why your lines are leaking , but it could be. good luck.

If a particular fitting doesnt seem to stop leaking, look at the matching cone in the fitting....where the tube seals to. IF there is a visible indentation on the cone, it is tough to make a good seal. This indentation means that the fitting was overtightened at some time or is plain worn. Brake line connectors work on the principle of mating cones EXACTLY like engine valves. The two mating surfaces have slightly different angles so there is a line of contact (a circle) that makes the seal. AN fittings are another great example of line contact.....also 60,000 psi water lines are sealed the same way.

Putting tape on the fitting threads does nothing; the seal is not on the threads nor around the tube.....it is at the mating cone.

Robot and Denny are right,,What was i thinking.......threadlock tape wont do any good at all,,,,my appologies.
A double flair is the best though,and you CAN overtighten and make the flare useless and end up with leaks.

The reason that I know about overtightening is: been there and done that. My previous motto was "if it leaks, make it tighter"

Denny---I did put the correct double flare on the lines----Thunderbucket-I kinda thought that was a weird answer-I've seen your other posts and I know that you wouldn't advise threadlock tape on brake fittings if ya stopped and thought about it. I just picked up some new brakeline wrenches---will try tightning a bit more before I try anything else.

We have one of those hydraulic flare tools from MP Brakes....does wonderful on steel. Stainless is a bitch, even with the hydraulic tool. Stainless splits easier than the Bundy steel tubing.

I used 3000# Swagelok fittings on my last car. Expensive, but I had a free source. There were no flares at all. Every outlet (caliper, master cylinder, proportioning valve, etc.) had an adapter to the Swageloks.

Couldn't afford them this time.

http://www.swagelok.com/category.asp...pDesc=Fittings

Yeah,,,I'm having a bad week,,,I'm on real strong pain relievers for my shoulder,,and i've got the damn Flu as well,,,,Things are a bit psychodelic for me right now, kinda like trying to swim through an ocean of peanut butter.

Quote:

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Originally posted by brianrupnow
Denny---I did put the correct double flare on the lines----Thunderbucket-I kinda thought that was a weird answer-I've seen your other posts and I know that you wouldn't advise threadlock tape on brake fittings if ya stopped and thought about it. I just picked up some new brakeline wrenches---will try tightning a bit more before I try anything else.

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O.K., I think the leaks are healed up. Bought some good box end brakeline wrenches today, and was able to put some man size grunt on the leaking fittings. I bled the brakes, and got the missus to do the pedal pumping honours while I climbed around underneath fighting with bleed-screws. Momma makes a good wife, but a damn grumpy mechanics helper. I go thru this every time I build a car---plumb the lines, fix the leaks, p___ off the wife by getting her to help pump the pedal. Bleeding brakes is one of the few things that you absolutely cannot do without a helper. There was so much mess on the floor that I sprinkled everything with floor-dry and quit for the night. Tomorrow night I will sweep up the floor dry, and watch for fresh drips on the concrete floor---not very scientific, but it does it for me. I will probably bleed the brakes a couple of more times between now and road time. The pedal is still spongy, but Momma's ugly quotient is directly related to how long I keep her out in the garage. I know that pumping the brakes supposedly aerates the fluid, but when you have the luxury of not immediately having to drive the car, any bubbles created will "settle out" in a week or so, and can be gotten rid of with the next bleed. I know that Summit has some neat check valve bleed screws, but when you only build one car every 10 or 12 years, its not a justifiable expense.

I've got a wife that's not real fond of trecks to the garage to bleed brakes either, fortunatly I only need to have her help me when I do the master cylinder.

When I do the wheel cylinders and calipers I build a simple bleeder tool.

Take a piece of vacuum line that's long enough to reach the floor and fits tightly over the bleeder. Plug one end and using a razor blade, cut a 1" slit near the plug. Place the other end over the bleeder then crack the bleeder slightly. Put the other end of the hose in a jar or can to prevent making a mess.

Slowly pump the peddle until you don't hear air, close the bleeder, remove the hose and move on to the next wheel.

Been doing this for years and it works great.

I have a vaccume bleeder kit,,,works fine,,,other than that while i prefere to have someone help by pumping the brakes,,,sometimes i use some empty soda bottles,,two at a time,,,i do the rears first,,,,attach a hose to the bleed screws and have the hose go into the soda bottles beneath a couple of inches of fluid,,,then get in the cab and pump away,,,sometimes messy,,,but it gets the job done.
I miss being in a shop environment using a pressure bleeder,,,,i plan on building one for myself one of these day's.

Quote:

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Originally posted by brianrupnow
Denny---I did put the correct double flare on the lines----Thunderbucket-I kinda thought that was a weird answer-I've seen your other posts and I know that you wouldn't advise threadlock tape on brake fittings if ya stopped and thought about it. I just picked up some new brakeline wrenches---will try tightning a bit more before I try anything else.

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I didn't ask if it was a standard practice but I used Hydraulic lock tite on my brake lines not to seal but to help prevent the brake line from loosening from vibration in the future. maybe over kill but no leaks and all is fine. Ed ke6bnl I must have made a dozen practice double flares 45* to get a technique down b4 I started my brake plumbing job. I did not have to redo one with the practice.. ed ke6bnl