Old ford rear

[WoodyWood]

just bought a frame that is from a 32 - 34 Ford. It is totaly complete and Im going to use it to put my 23 Dodge on. It has a banjo type rear end that seems to turn very freely. If I find that this rear end use useable does anyone know if it will handle the power of a 241 Hemi?? Just thinking it would be pretty cool to keep the older axle if not....oh well i guess.

[Bob Parmenter]

Ummmm..............there's a fair bit of difference between a '32 frame, and one from a '33-4 for what that's worth. Have you done any measuring? If the frame is really what you think it is it's pretty wide compared to your Dodge body. A model A frame would have been more appropriate if you're going for a Ford frame.

As for your question in general, the weakest link in those banjo rears were the axle keys. Those would shear before the gears go 99 times out of 100. The unfortunate thing that happens then is the hub/drum/wheel leave the car if the end nut doesn't hold or the axle shears. If you didn't build the engine much, or beat on the rear it would hold up. Just don't plan on any burn out contests. The other issue you'll have is the Ford rear is a torque tube design, so you're stuck with using a Ford trans or converting the banjo to an open yoke with either a late '40's truck unit, or one of the conversion kits on the market.

If the frame really is a '33-4 the center X member will need to be modified to use any trans other than a Ford. The '32 less so. Also, again assuming you've got the vintage correct, if the brakes are the originals they're mechanical rather than hydraulic.

[WoodyWood]

So pretty much that is a no on using it with the Hemi then. Does anyone make a rear axle that looks like this one in some sort of way?? That can at least hold up to this mini himi. And its true Bob. I have no clue as to the age of this frame and I have no clue to find out exept to take the word of the guy I bought it from. Hell I am no where near an expert when it comes to that stuff.

[The Al Show]

Woody All Ford frames built from 33 to 48 have an X crossmember in the center. The 32 doesn't have the X. The 32 crossmember is called a K. If you have the X the 33 and 34 have the front spring located directly over the axle. From 35 to 48 they have the spring ahead of the axle. 41 to 48 frames are wider than 35 to 40 frames. If there wasn't so much snow here I could get some measurements for you.
If you could post a picture of the frame I'm sure someone can tell you what you have.
If you're keeping the Hemi stock the late 40's Ford pickup rear end that Bob mentioned should hold up if you don't pop the clutch. It has hydraulic brakes and uses a conventional driveshaft. I have a 47 truck rear but it's buried in the snow and would cost too much to ship to Texas.

[Bob Parmenter]

Originally posted by WoodyWood
I have no clue as to the age of this frame and I have no clue to find out exept to take the word of the guy I bought it from.

Well, Woody, if the seller mashed those years together in identifying the frame it means he has no clue either. Al's given you a brief rundown of the configurations, but as he says, a photo would make ID a lot easier.

[WoodyWood]

no problem ill get a photo as soon as I can.

[Don Shillady]

Depending on your age you could get suckered into nostalgia over the time warp of old parts and I would be tempted myself to put a lot of TLC on that frame and running gear with the thought that the earlier Dodge 241 hemi was only rated at 140 H.P. as I recall, but the later ones were rated at over 250 H.P. so what is the year of the engine and what modifications have you made or are planned? Still I WASTED years on old rusty Ford parts due to economic limitations and nostalgia and eventually came to the conclusion that only die hard restorers can bring back these old cars and that is all the more wonder when you see a fully restored car from the early '30s! The axle problem Bob mentioned can be partially remedied with locking hubs still available from Speedway for WHEN (not if!) the axle keys break so that the wheels do not come off and MAYBE an early banjo would survive the early 140 H.P. Dodge hemi but overall you can expect a lot of heartbreak as well as partsbreak. Soo, since you show exposed rear wheels anyway, you should be able to find a Ford 9" rear for $200 or less in local advertisements and maybe not have to narrow it for your use and then maybe use offset rims to bring the wheels in closer to the body. Also an 8" Ford rear might be narrower but weaker than the 9" and yet still Ok for your purpose. Speedway, TCI and other aftermarket suppliers offer weld-on brackets to adapt the later rearends to early frames and only minor welding is required, but should be done by a certified welder. That also means you can choose a variety of transmissions other than the early Ford closed driveline. Unknown to a whole generation of modern rodders are the weakness of the '32-'48 Ford three speed transmissions AND how many of you have experienced "clutch chatter" of the flathead era? Instead we are used to the "clank" of worn universal joints, but in the old closed drivelines you only used reverse if you had too because the drive line was rigid and the clutch irregularities coupled with a worn throwout bearing could lead to incredible "bucking" of the whole drive line, especially when backing up an incline in a flexible convertible, although bucking clutch chatter was common even in more rigid Tudor bodies. With all those problems why did we love those flatheads? Well it was glorious because of the relatively better acceleration than the OHV-6 Chevies of the time which had an incredibly "slow-suck" vacuum shifter device, especially on the otherwise beautiful '40 Chevrolets, so it is all relative! But today, you should just get a Ford 9" rear, offset rims and a modern transmision from the '70s or newer. Believe me unless you own stock in the WD40 company you will not enjoy all the rust on the old parts. Still I would give that frame TLC and get it boxed and then you can build up the hemi closer to 300 H.P. with add on parts. I wish I had your engine!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

[WoodyWood]

I talked to the guy that I bought the frame from and I guess I heard him wrong its a late 30s frame. Or I might have just been thinking of the car that one of the local P.D.s is letting me haul off with. They have a 1930 something 2 DR Sedan, and a 1965 T-Bird on the haul off list.

But The engine is a "D44" 1953 241 Hemi. The only thing that Im doing to it is a new carb or 2 and a little TLC. Im not realy intrested in beefing it up to much. I would love to know of anyone that had one of these motors in the 50s and what they did to it to get more power out of it. I dont realy want to bore it due to some of the problems that happen to the older motors that get bored. But I think 140 - 150 hp should be more than enough for the old dodge. As for the rear end I guess I was just asking about it do to it would look good with the older style rear on it, but I do want to be able to play and not kill myself or be on the side of the road. Yea the old car might look good but not on the side of the road. I chose the little 241 Hemi just because it was a 50s motor and ,....hell its a hemi. I chose the little 241 over the other 10 hemis that were there. I know squat about hemis so dont get me fibing to you about the sizes. But I wanted a good period looking car and hell I couldnt put anything but a Mopar in a Mopar. It just wouldnt be the same with a chevy motor in the old Dodge. And hell I know squat about building a car of this age too. I can work on something in the 50s up... and all I ever had when I was in High School was Muscle Cars. So this is a new step for me and I want to make something I think is cool, I really dont care if everyone thinks its ugly, if I think its fun thats cool to me. I dont realy want the big tires in the rear and I DO want white walls all the way around it. I want it loud and fun. If my ears aint bleeding by the time I get to where im going , the drive sucked. I think this little Dodge Brothers has great Hot Rod potential.