BB in '57 Chevy--a long post

I have tried using the search but was not very successful. I cannot help but believe somebody in this forum has been down this path before and shared their experiences.

About a year and half ago the wife of a good friend, Mike, came home from a yard sale telling him she had found him a '57 Chevy hard top--Lucky Man :) Mike had found his dream car. It had been in storage for years and was partially dismantled but all the parts were there including the original 283 4b Carb engine and powerglide. We fired the engine up then it ran ok. This car has the potential of a good restoration but Mike wants do the things he has always dreamed of with it. That is to make it a fairly stock looking more modern big block cruiser with modern brakes, power steering and a manual trasmission. Like all of us, he has financial limitations. He asked me to help him (a sure sign of desperation :) ). That is why I am troubling you all.

So far he has cleaned and powder coated the frame, put the front suspension in and converted the front brakes to discs. He is getting the final parts for the Ford 9 inch rear from Mosers. The rear end itself is a 31 spline posi with 3.50 ratio from about an '80 Ford (Broncho?) He hopes to use the Ford rear drum brakes. They will be drilled for the Chevy bolt pattern. We have had a few glitches with the conversion but should be mounting all to the chasis in the next week or two.

The 454 he has is from about a '74 Suburban. He has not torn it down yet but found rust in the intake manifold and fears that it may not be rebuildable. He may have to buy a new crate engine.

Any thoughts on the above would be welcome but after this is where we need your help. I am lost.

Front to back:

1. Apparently to convert the car to power steering he will need to use a "605" steering box and will have to alter or change the steering column or links. Is this the best way to do it? If so where would be the best place to buy them? I have not found any magazine articles explaining this and cannot visualize it.

2. It looks like he will need to go to side motor and rear transmission mounts. Where would be the best place to buy these and are there a better or worse kind? Should he use the ones that move the engine a little forward? A fellow at a car show with a Nomad said he had to tap in the fire wall a little to get his after market valve covers to fit--not a pleasant prospect.

3. If he needs to go to a crate engine, do you all have any recomendations or favorites? He has found a company in Arizona on Ebay which is selling a 495 HP 454 for about $4000. The cam sounds a little steep to me for a street macine, but the rest seems good. Unfortunately, as of yet the manager has not returned any of his calls.

4. He would like a modern manual transmission. Will the 5 speeds and bell housings from the later model SB Camaros fit? Or if his budget would allow would a modern Corvette 6 speed work? What about the flywheel and cutch and throw out arm system and starter? How much if any will interchange from a small block to a BB and if so are there better years or styles to look for? Will he be best off with going to a hydrolic clutch system? What about the speedometer cable? Will it fit in a modern transmission? Where will the shift lever come through the floor? Will it need to be modified or a special type used?


There are probably lots of other things too but he needs to be making some decisons about the drive train fairly soon. Any sharing of your experiences or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rick

Hey Rick,

Tall order. Let's see if I can help.

Start here: http://www.mcgaughysclassic.com/

Mike makes good stuff for tri-five chevys. I've used his parts and have been quite satisfied. He's done, by his own count, over 35,000 605 kits. One of the first to do it.

As for the engine, even if rusted some, it should be rebuildable. The question is, will it be worth it? I'm a fan of GM Performance crate motors. They have a wide range of BB engines to meet many power and price needs. Plus you get a warrantee, and, you can get it at your local Chevrolet dealer, or one of the mail order dealers that will discount a bit.

McGaughy also has the engine and trans mounts, both stock location and 3/4 inch setforward. Dimpling the fire wall is not that big an issue, if done carefully, most people won't even notice it. Just make sure it's done BEFORE painting the firewall. If you don't like the McGaughy parts, there are other BB kits available. Get a magazine aimed at Chevy street machines and there will probably be half a dozen ads from companies that offer alternatives.

I haven't done the trans swaps you're talking about, but there are a few basics. I don't know much about the six speed, so I'll pass on that, other than to say, it has some electronic controls that may need to be by-passed, or "fooled" with a special harness arrangement. Five speeds are easier. There are several choices. The one that seems most popular right now is the Tremec. They handle a lot of torque, have become very common over the past few years, and are made to bolt to a normal Chev bell housing. If you use the stock location engine/trans mounts, the Z bar linkage for the clutch should still line up fine. Otherwise, hydraulic will work. There are two types to my knowledge, the external slave cylinder variety, and the hydraulic throwout bearing type. The drawback I see to the throwout bearing type is if it developes a leak, it's harder to get to for repair or replacement. Just my opinion. The other advantage to the Tremec is that it has three shift linkage placement locations. The standard is the farthest back placement which would probably interfere with the '57's seat. In years past, guys have had a notch cut in the front of the seat frame/cushion by their upholsterer to clear, but I've always thought that an unsatisfactory solution. The Tremecs will require an extra cost adapter, available from them, that will allow placement further forward. Check out http://www.fortesparts.com/index.html they are reputed to be the best suppliers of Tremec, as well as other 5 speed transmissions. They've probably already been down the road you're looking for.

One last personal thing. You didn't make mention of lowering the car. You gotta have him lower it!!!! It's the only way to make them look right!!

Enjoy!!

Dear Bob,

Thank you for addressing my litany of questions. The Web sites you suggested are helpful and I appreciate the insight in your answers.

I just talked to Mike a little while ago. His new axles have been lost in the mail to Mosers. (Ugh!!) But this is probably typical for this kind of project. Mike and I have muddles through some unique mechanical messes together and never yet have the kind of everything goes well projects they show every week on the Crank and Chrome TV show, but I bet that we are twice as entertaining to watch. :)

We will keep you posted on our progress or lack there of Ha!! I would post some pictures if I thought I could figure out how to do it.

Thanks again,

Oh Yeah, of course--the new front spindles are dropped 2" :) Thanks for thinking of it.

Man what a wife!!! I love my wife, Ilove my wife, I love my wife!! I am not here to advertise another forum but for what you need the Chevy talk bulletin board would be best. I don't know haw to do a link I am still new at this comp. stuff. Joker

Rick,
Maybe you guys should start a "real TV" version of C&C:LOL: :LOL:

2" is a good start, now, get the one inch shorter springs too. To get an idea of the end result, look at my gallery. My former '56 wagon had both spindles and springs in front, and the back brought down 3" as well. For a non-air bag drop it still stays pretty functional. Remember............every worm for himself!!!!:eek:

Joker,

You are right about his wife. She even painted his garage for him. My wife wants to bring home more manure generating horses. Ugh!! :)

Bob, I have considered your recommendation. I think tomorrow we will start searching for sponosors. I am sure we could do a pilot program on this Chevy. Probably a whole season. Maybe his wife should be co staring too. She would certainly be a role model!! :)

Mosers found his axles this am. So they should be back in time for us to put the rearend together and on the chasis next week.

I have looked at the Chevy talk forum. It is loaded with information. Joker, thank you for suggesting it. If I understand it correctly, a T56 would require an electronic speedometer conversion for about $300 and different bell housing and possibly a different flywheel and rear yoke and a hydraulic clutch. The T5 from a V8, although much weaker, would be simpler. I am not sure that new tremec would readily be in the budget although it looks like an excellent choice. Well, had better quit for the night. You all take care.

Hi Rick, looks like the guys have covered most of your questions. One thing I would like to add is... plan ahead! The investment of blood, sweat & cash is wasted if you make a poor decision early into the project. Decide what you ultimately want, then work toward that goal. Ever consider a good ole TH-400? They tend to be bullet proof & eliminate all the clutch problems.

DynoDon,

Thanks for you advice. It does reprsent a lot of work and money. I have tried to do reasonable plannig and research since I know nothing about later model Chevy component interchanges. The last few weeks, about once a week after evening church Mike and I have Dairy Queen ice cream cones together and talk about where he is going and what we have to plan for or change and whom we need to call or contact for more advise or parts. I think we do a lot more talking than doing but the ice cream is good.

Our next shop session, scheuled for Tues night, will be to take the junk 454 apart to see if it is useable and to put the rear springs and rear end together. I'll "alert the media" :) with our progress if we have any. Last time there was a thunder storm and the power went out.

The 400 Tranny would be a wise choice but he has his heart set on a manual transmission. So we will get there some how.

Rick

Just an update on Mike's project--inquiring minds got to know. Ha!! He pulled the heads on the 454 he had and the cylinders are badly rusted. He will probaly go with the GM 454 crate engine--more expensive but looks like a good product. He has not resolved the transmission issue yet.

He has all the glass out and most of the chrome off the body. We could not figure out how to get the chrome rear finn peices off with out bending them. Todd, who owns the body shop where the body will be finshed and painted said that he would do that. So far he has been great to work with. Todd will have an opening to bring the body in in about two to three weeks. The body is now ready to be taken to him.

Time permitting in the next few weeks, Mike will get the rear suspension into the chasis and have a rolling chasis to mount the engine and drive train before the body gets back.

Jim Meyer Racing does a nice rack and pinion setup with his IFS. I have one and it is the best I have seen. The rack setup might be available separately. Far better than a welded up 605. They also have all the motor mounts and everything else. I also have his front and rear suspensions for my Anglia. Top quality.
www.jimmeyerracing.com
1-800-824-1752
Cord

Cord, thank you for the suggestion. The site looks great. Unfortuantly, Mike has already bought and installed new front springs, disc brakes and turning pieces. Financially, it would be hard to start over again on another front end.

Rick

Mike has had a chance to get back to his '57 Chevy._ Two weeks ago he bought a 454 with a Tremec_ 5 speed attached._ Saturday we tried to fit it into the ’57._ People had told us it was a no sweat conversion._ Neither of us had ever done this before but, hey, some 1`x2 tube, two pudgy graying hill billies with a cutting torch and welder, some 3/16” plate and some ½” inside dia tube, a refrigerator full of diet cokes and a pan full of Robbie's delicious rice crispy squares and the job is all but done—Right??_ WRONG!!!_ It was a frustrating day.__

We had trouble with the exhaust manifolds clearing the frame rails._ The fellow Mike bought the 454 from threw in a set of large diameter "high performance" exhaust manifolds._ These did not clear the steering gear box on the left or the frame rail on the right._ We took those off and put on an old set of ’74 suburban manifolds._ They cleared on the right but still were perilously close or hitting the gearbox on the left._ Plus we had trouble with the front of the oil pan hitting the tie rod or the engine hitting the firewall depending on how it was fit._ To make things worse we did not know for sure where or how high the engine should be._ Mike and I arguing made the Bush- Kerry debates look like a peace conference. :) After four hours of fruitless struggling, we stopped._ I think that Mike will try to find some after market conversion engine mounts early next week._ That should help to locate the engine’s height and fore-aft positioning, but am still concerned about clearing the gearbox and the tie rod.__ I think that we need some professional help—in more ways than one._ :)_ Can we keep the stock gearbox, and tie rod and or oil pan?_ Is there a special kind of exhaust manifold we should be using?_ _ Any insight would be appreciated.

Note, I have not even hinted at the subject of fitting the Z bar to throw out arm. Mike is sure that we will not need a hydralic system. We will see! :)

Rick

I'm sure there is still someone out there making conversion kits with headers to put a big block in a tri-5 chebbie. Long time ago, use to buy them from Bill Thomas Engineering, Try a google search for "57 chevy engine swap kits".

If it's any condolance, you and Mike are certainly not the only one's to every have "discussions" while working on a project !!!!

Just my 2 cents,

Have you looked into TCI? (Total Cost Involved) I have used their Engine/Trans kit in both '55,'57 chevys I've built. I really like them. Also have you checked out Sanderson Headers or Hooker both should have what ever you need. Also McGaughy's is top notch in my book as well. Good Luck :D

Alan

Thanks David and Alan for your replies. Last Saturday Mike and I went into that fight leading with our chins. We thought we could just line it and fabricate some brackets. I had not even bothered to check any internet sites since about the time of the first several posts. We learned our lesson. I tried the suggested searches as much as time permitted and they offered some help. Today I went down to A Plus, a local hot rod store, to see if they could tell me more. The guys there are great. They could not give practical advice on this particular swap but could order the motor mounts cheaper than any I had seen on the internet. There was a customer there who talked with me a good while and made several generalized swap pointers. Meanwhile Mike has remembered some one who he believes has done several of these swaps and is trying to catch him.

This is where we stand now. Tomorrow I will order a set of mounts that will mount the 454 to the sides of the frames. Mike wants to use the brackets that will move the engine forwards ¾ inch. The reason for this type of mount is to allow the larger HEI distributor to be used. He may not use an HEI but thought that it would be additional insurance that he will not have to alter the car’s stock fire wall and will give just a little more margin for error. None of the manufacturers that we could find made any comments about this interfering with the oil pan and tie rod clearance so hopefully that will not be a problem with the after market mounts. Sanderson advertises a header to fit this application and is supposed to have enough clearance for a stock or 605 gearbox—not cheap but a potential working solution.

Hopefully with the appropriate engine mounts, we will be able to line everything up and make a transmission cross member. That “should” be doable. I will let you know what happens. Thanks for the tech support.

Rick

i have been buying stuff from classic chevy for 18 years
and i have no complaints,you will need there bb chevy
installation kit and there turbo 400 trans kit along with
lots of other costly stuff for your bb chevy, i would go
with a 427 if i was going with a bb for a 57.:rolleyes:

Rick,
TCI makes both stock and 3/4'' forward mounts, super simple setup. All you have to do is remove 2 rivits and drill 1 hole on each side, then your mounts bolt right in. :3dSMILE: Just one thing to remember, by moving 3/4" forward that will interfear with your core support and radiator mount if you have the V-8 core support. If you have a 6cyl. core support that will mount your radiator on the front side and you shouldn't have any problems. The TCI tranny mount will handle most all trannies 350, 400 or 700R4. The best part was installation, 4 self threading bolts and your done! They definatly got their Sh*t together!!
Once again Good Luck!:cool:

Thank you for the suggestions. Mike ordered the mounts today. He went with the 3/4 inch forward. The TCI cross member sounds good but I am having trouble finding it tonight. Mike likes that idea. I will have more time to search in the next couple of days.

We talked to some one who had done the conversion in the past. He said that you did not need to worry about the pan tie rod clearance if you cut a large diamond shaped piece out of the firewall. Mike's body is fairly pristine and he nearly cringed at the thought of that. I talked with a fellow named Ernie at Danchucks this morning he was knowledgeable and helpful. He recommended the forward mounts too.

Delray, thank you for mentioning the radiator position. To my memory, in the cold weather when I was in high school the guys with shoebox Chevy V8s could put beverages in the area between the grill and the radiator and chill them while they were driving. That area looked like it was made for that. The 6 cylinders did not have as nice a space since the radiator was moved forward. .

Dotgone, your '57 in the gallery is beautiful. The John Deere (B?) in the back ground was interesting

Rick,
Sorry I'm just getting back with you. Computer crashed and I'm just getting back with you. www.totalcostinvolved.com is their website, check them out I'm sure they will have what you need.
Also check out www.hhclassic.com for 55-57 car parts. Good bunch of guys!
Keep me posted on your progress,
Alan

Delray, thank you for the post. I had looked for a transmission cross member in TCI Transmissions rather than Total Cost Involved—silly me. :) A quick glance tonight at the sites you suggested has shown both have nice looking cross members. I will have to call them to see if the members will fit the Tremec. Either company’s product would look much better than our home made stuff. :)
Thanks again, Rick

Hey Rick,
How's the '57 project going? By the way you said you were putting a 9" out of a '80 or so Bronco. How does it fit? I'm curious, I think 60" overall is the stock width on '55-'57. I'm looking for a good rearend to run in the 'ol Delray. I've been told that a '68-74 Nova 10 or 12 bolt will work great. Any thoughts? I'm running 8"X17" wheels and would like to stay with that on the back. I put Mcgaughy's dropped spindles and 1" springs on the front. I also used their 2 1/2" lower springs on the back. Sits just right!

Keep me posted,
Alan

Delray, sorry to be so slow to answer your post. Mike and I talked about it while we worked on the ‘57 today. Mike had Moseners (SP?), a company here in Indiana, to make a rear end housing to ’57 specs except that he ordered it one inch narrower than stock. This should allow him to fit larger tires in the 60s profile size. He also sent the Bronco axels to them. They cut and resplined the axels to the correct size and redrilled the hubs to fit a Chevy bolt pattern. As always, they were great to work with. The larger Bronco rear drum brakes bolted right in. I put a couple of pictures of this in the gallery for you. If you would like other views, please let me know. I would be glad to send them to you. Mike was told that he could narrow the rear end more but would have to move the springs and shackles inboard, to the inside of the frame rails. That seemed a little on the excess side to us red neck old hill billies. A quick tape measurement today showed the housing flare to housing flare to be about 53 3/4 in. and outside hub to about 59 1/4 in. I will try to do it again and be more accurate if you need it. Moseners has the exact specs for a stock ’55-57 housing.

I do not know about the 70’s Nova rear ends. I have read that they will fit fine but I believe that the spring perches should be from a ’55-57 and the perch positions will have to be moved outward for the ’55-57. Mike originally considered that option but I talked him into the 9 Inch. It did not take much talking because in his wilder youth he had torn up enough Chevy rear ends to know that it was the right way to go. Chevy verses Ford 9 Inch—there is no shortage of heated debates on the subject. I won’t go there, but just to say that I know of several who have switched from Chevy to Ford 9 Inch rear ends and none to switch the other way. Also I do not know of a car that has decreased in value by having a Ford 9 Inch. Besides they look more original in a Shoe Box than a 10 or 12 bolt any way. I am sorry I cannot help you any further but that is all I know. Hopefully one of the gurus on this forum will know more.

We bolted the engine mounts on to the frame and fitted the engine today. They fit reasonably well and looked nice against the frame. It “looks like” the oil pan will clear the tie rod without modification but neither set of headers will clear the steering gear box. Mike decided on the transmission mount from HH Classics, thanks for suggesting them, and hopefully I will get a chance to order it Mon

Rick

Hey Rick, looks like the motor swap is progressing well. That's some real nice work on the chassis, congrats on a great job !! Looks super.

Thanks, Dave, Mike had the frame powder coated. The other parts were either replaced with new or sandblasted and painted. He had to quit for a while but is having a chance to get back to it. He works hard and he also has the gift of doing things fast--something I envy.

Rick

Thanks for the info! Sorry about the delay, Just been up to my ears in alligators. Keep me posted on your progress.

___________________
Alan